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Enlightenend Society

How long will it take?

  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
Last edited:
Obviously from the title, the OP doesn't really have a clue about economic enlightenment, true enlightenment would be waking up and realizing that the Dems/Liberal socialistic approach of "Regulated Capitalism" is a failure, same as attempts at outright Socialism have always been.

Democrats cannot fix the economy. They are the ones that for over 40 years have been breaking the economy. While the Republicans "corporate protectionism" has not been as destructive, it hasn't helped any either. Nor are the democrats innocent of their own Corporate Protectionism. While the Dems have not outright, in most cases, embraced Socialism, the affects of their policies are the same even if their approach is different and their longterm goals are also the same. "Trickle up" economic policies in the government are even less effective than "Trickle down" economics. The main problem with both is that they attempt to keep in place current players and maintain the status quo instead of encouraging change over. Both discourage and even stop the emergence of new players in established markets. These approaches both favor stagnation, and stagnation is always bad. Couple that stagnation with "dept spending" and credit spending, and you end up with an artificial economy build upon a foundation of mud bricks, not solid rock, it may hold up for a short time, but eventually, it will always come tumbling down.

The government cannot really "fix" the economy, it can only take actions that will hurt or hinder the economy. It can however reduce burdens upon the economy, but it is doubtful that the Democrats will do so, since they are the ones who placed those burdens there in the first place.
 
It's already fixed. The recession has ended and unemployment is at 7.7% after a peak of 10.5% two years ago. We're only 2 points away from "booming economy" unemployment.
 
Hopefully the lobbyists in DC can instruct Congress on what needs to be done to fix the economy.
 
evan83 said:
It's already fixed. The recession has ended and unemployment is at 7.7% after a peak of 10.5% two years ago. We're only 2 points away from "booming economy" unemployment.
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Employment is not the sole measure of an economy. Also, unemployment figures during the Holiday Season are not accurate of overall health of an economy. Every year at this time, there are a lot of temporary hires, lets wait until the end of January and see how many of the temps keep their jobs. Also, if that employment is based upon credit spending by consumers, it may hold for a little while, but we are just building a false front until the next collapse.
 
Moot said:
How long will republicans dominate the congress? As long as we have that pathetic excuse for a congress don't count on the economy getting fixed anytime soon.
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This pretty much says it all. The republicans like to whine that its all the dems fault and that it is up to them and them alone to fix it. Uh yah. Congress is composed of two parties and they both have to work together to get anything done. Good luck with that.
 
Dooble said:
It's a fair question, isn't it?
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Dooble said:
How many more years will Democrats need to fix the economy?
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If it was a fair question then it wouldn't have singled out a political party and ignored the other. No one political party is going to accomplish "Utopia". If such a thing is even possible. In order to accomplish such a thing then everyone, regardless of political party would have to co-operate and not be greedy. But that is simply not possible. Both sides, indeed 95% of people in this country are greedy.
 
Kal'Stang said:
If it was a fair question then it wouldn't have singled out a political party and ignored the other. No one political party is going to accomplish "Utopia". If such a thing is even possible. In order to accomplish such a thing then everyone, regardless of political party would have to co-operate and not be greedy. But that is simply not possible. Both sides, indeed 95% of people in this country are greedy.
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I singled out the Democrats because the Republicans don't their a** from the hole in the ground. Though I utterly disagree with the Left on probably 99% of what it stands for, they really do know how to win elections. The problem now is, how in the hell are they going to stay queen of the mountain when all they really know how to do is point their fingers at George Bush?
 
Kal'Stang said:
If such a thing is even possible. In order to accomplish such a thing then everyone, regardless of political party would have to co-operate and not be greedy. But that is simply not possible. Both sides, indeed 95% of people in this country are greedy.
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I for one do not see how imperfect people could possibly create a perfect society.

95%? really, you give credit to 5% for not having any greed? Natural Greed, the desire to have more, is a natural desire within humans, very few can resist it. We have a tendency to use the term only in relation to money, but it encompasses a lot more. For a communist society, or even a socialist one, to exist without conflict, greed would have to be wiped out. The fact that they rely upon such an ideal and the fact that greed is human nature, pretty much tells us that Socialism/Communism is not humanly possible and will always fail, or at least be constantly challenged, because they are trying to a society contrary to human nature. Greed is only one area of human nature that they fail to take into account, there are others.
 
Dooble said:
I singled out the Democrats because the Republicans don't their a** from the hole in the ground. Though I utterly disagree with the Left on probably 99% of what it stands for, they really do know how to win elections. The problem now is, how in the hell are they going to stay queen of the mountain when all they really know how to do is point their fingers at George Bush?
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Winning an election don't mean crap. Running this country is far more important and complicated than winning an election.

But besides that, both democrats and republicans have both good and bad ideas. You just have to get past all the partisan BS and hyperbole to see it.
 
DVSentinel said:
I for one do not see how imperfect people could possibly create a perfect society.

95%? really, you give credit to 5% for not having any greed? Natural Greed, the desire to have more, is a natural desire within humans, very few can resist it. We have a tendency to use the term only in relation to money, but it encompasses a lot more. For a communist society, or even a socialist one, to exist without conflict, greed would have to be wiped out. The fact that they rely upon such an ideal and the fact that greed is human nature, pretty much tells us that Socialism/Communism is not humanly possible and will always fail, or at least be constantly challenged, because they are trying to a society contrary to human nature. Greed is only one area of human nature that they fail to take into account, there are others.
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There are 7+ billion people on this planet. Among those 7 billion there are groups of people that purposely go out of there way to seek something other than material gratification. Now the reason that I include the whole planet full of people is because one country alone could not achieve "Utopia" unless they closed down thier borders so tightly that a mouse couldn't get through and have full control of the populace. And I see that as even less likely than Utopia. Reason being is "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence", and people simply are too varied to conform to one idea.
 
Dooble said:
In essence, we have become an (or the?) enlightened society, hence the name of this thread. It's now up to the shepherds of enlightenment to overcome what little opposition they have left, and guide this country to Utopia. The question is, how long will it take?
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*Enlightened* people don't insure their own failure with policies which lead to their own fall. I would hardly call the country enlightened. Groping around in the darkness would be a more fitting description.
 
Dezaad said:
Umm... Did a bunch of republicans in the house change parties and give control of the federal govt to the democrats or something? Cuz, I dont remember seeing it on the news.
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Actually the real question is, did a bunch of Democrats in the Senate switch parties yet? You know, because our economy has actually been pretty good with Republicans running the Congress from 1986-1992 and 1996-2006.

Democrats already owned Congress when the recession hit, so maybe we should blame them? ;P
 
Kal'Stang said:
There are 7+ billion people on this planet. Among those 7 billion there are groups of people that purposely go out of there way to seek something other than material gratification. Now the reason that I include the whole planet full of people is because one country alone could not achieve "Utopia" unless they closed down thier borders so tightly that a mouse couldn't get through and have full control of the populace. And I see that as even less likely than Utopia. Reason being is "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence", and people simply are too varied to conform to one idea.
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I think you have a much different understanding of greed than I do. Greed does NOT amount strictly to material wealth. People can fight over things that have no montary value, such as women, respect, honor, reputation... etc. etc. Self worth unconsciously is the motivator behind everything anyone does, and self worth is inheritantly greedy and self centered by definition.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Winning an election don't mean crap. Running this country is far more important and complicated than winning an election.

But besides that, both democrats and republicans have both good and bad ideas. You just have to get past all the partisan BS and hyperbole to see it.
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All politics is local. At the end of the day, every single memeber of congress is ultimately doing what gives them the best chance to be reelected.
 
ReformCollege said:
I think you have a much different understanding of greed than I do. Greed does NOT amount strictly to material wealth. People can fight over things that have no montary value, such as women, respect, honor, reputation... etc. etc. Self worth unconsciously is the motivator behind everything anyone does, and self worth is inheritantly greedy and self centered by definition.
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Bold: Women are material. And what is the first thing that a man says when talking about his wife, his girlfriend, his woman....oh wait...I gave it away didn't I? The thought of thinking of women as property is just softer now than it was 200 years ago. And alot more even as the woman can vocally state the same things only with "her" at the begining instead of "his".

Underlined: That is actually pride and not greed.

Rest: There are still those that do not consider thier self worth.
 
ReformCollege said:
All politics is local. At the end of the day, every single memeber of congress is ultimately doing what gives them the best chance to be reelected.
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Including lying, cheating, stealing etc etc. Not overtly of course. But they do thier damndest to get as rich as they can.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Bold: Women are material. And what is the first thing that a man says when talking about his wife, his girlfriend, his woman....oh wait...I gave it away didn't I? The thought of thinking of women as property is just softer now than it was 200 years ago. And alot more even as the woman can vocally state the same things only with "her" at the begining instead of "his".

Underlined: That is actually pride and not greed.

Rest: There are still those that do not consider thier self worth.
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I didn't live 200 years ago and neither did you. It has different meanings now.

They may not consciously throw around their self worth, but in one shape or form they value things that make them feel good about themselves.

Pride is greed, and my point remains that greed is just one of many manifestations of personal self worth which IS rooted in human nature. So greed will always be present, and just because 5% of the population may not be what you qualify as greedy, does not mean that we should just thumb our nose at the other 95% until they get on board.

Btw I like your signature.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Including lying, cheating, stealing etc etc. Not overtly of course. But they do thier damndest to get as rich as they can.
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Exactly.... my point is, greed is not just an overt phenomena that only applies to the rich.
 
Black_Zawisza said:
>implying that the Democrats haven't controlled the Senate since January of '07
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I said current congress because it's been taken over far right extremists who haven't a clue how to govern or balance a check book.
 
lizzie said:
These are the errors in thinking. Government can't *fix* the economy. The economy self-corrects well, if left alone. Government pouring money into it only prolongs imbalances, and prevents it from working efficiently.
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The Federal Reserve is the only thing keeping inflation in check. If you don't think inflation affects the economy, think again.
 
Kal'Stang said:
With this one post you might as well change your lean to democrat. Your current "undisclosed" status has been reft away.
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If you must know, I'm for whatever works. If the Republicans had a credible plan instead of an agenda I'd probably vote for them.
 
Moot said:
I said current congress because it's been taken over far right extremists who haven't a clue how to govern or balance a check book.
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The Left thinks a Transaction Register is a process where they recieve gift $ from grateful tax payers.
 
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