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Did ACORN steal The Election?[W; 114]

Did ACORN steal the election?

  • Total voters
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Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

upsideguy said:
.... that would all depend on which side of the issue he actually settled on... I do admit, however, that I am going to miss the Romney-Romney debates. They may have been the highlight of the 2012 election season.
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Know what the romney that we saw running for president...I dont believe is the real Mitt Romney. Yes hes a very rich man..so what ? Yes he hurt working people in his business dealings...so does my landscaper...Mitt Romney has compassion for people, I believe that, he showed that as gov of massuchusetts. Mitt Romeny allowed the big pacs The Krotch Brothers...Karl Rove and Adelsen and the Jim Demints and Grover Norquists FORCE him to the right were he was unnatural..and he came across phony as a 3.00 bill...if it wasnt for the total freak show of a primary with the runway of parading idiots and his being forced to the right and forced to take Paul Ryan...romney would have won by a big margin...and I really believe that.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

upsideguy said:
Yeah, they are.

At least, no more or no less than having a social safety net. Unlike those that vote for social programs, those that vote themselves tax breaks can personally assess the individual value of that benefit. Romney voters knew, with considerably more precision, the personal financial benefit of a Romney vote than Obama voters... hence, were more likely bought.

This silliness notwithstanding, the question of what should be within the commons (what government should spend money upon) and how it should be paid for (or how we should tax and spend our collective wealth) are valid questions in any election. Sorry, for you, the more people see the value of a social safety net than a lean tax structure.
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that is idiotic. tax cuts mean you have less taken from you that you already earned. ONLY WHEN THE TOP ONE PERCENT PAY LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of the tax bill would tax cuts for the top 1% become HANDOUTS
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
that is idiotic. tax cuts mean you have less taken from you that you already earned. ONLY WHEN THE TOP ONE PERCENT PAY LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of the tax bill would tax cuts for the top 1% become HANDOUTS
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No, what is idiotic to to assume there is no cost to participation in a society and the every dollar of gross income belongs to you. Participating in a society or being a citizen in a country comes with a degree of social responsibility that we collectively share in the cost and the benefit...

Think of your country as a franchise, which provides the fundamental infrastructure (including roads, bridges, airports and an FAA so you can move about; military, police, courts and a banking system to protect your property; an FDA/FTC to protect your food, water and drugs; colleges and universities to educate, develop knowledge and create new things) under which you are free to be an entrepreneur, including getting to keep most, but not all, of what your reap. After all, there is a fee to play and the fee goes up with your success.... and, of course, like a franchise, when the fee gets big, you get cocky and forget from whence you came.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

upsideguy said:
No, what is idiotic to to assume there is no cost to participation in a society and the every dollar of gross income belongs to you. Participating in a society or being a citizen in a country comes with a degree of social responsibility that we collectively share in the cost and the benefit...

Think of your country as a franchise, which provides the fundamental infrastructure (including roads, bridges, airports and an FAA so you can move about; military, police, courts and a banking system to protect your property; an FDA/FTC to protect your food, water and drugs; colleges and universities to educate, develop knowledge and create new things) under which you are free to be an entrepreneur, including getting to keep most, but not all, of what your reap. After all, there is a fee to play and the fee goes up with your success.... and, of course, like a franchise, when the fee gets big, you get cocky and forget from whence you came.
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the benefits are essentially the same for everyone and as long as the rich are still paying more than the average citizen they are NOT GETTING HANDOUTS
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
that is idiotic. tax cuts mean you have less taken from you that you already earned. ONLY WHEN THE TOP ONE PERCENT PAY LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of the tax bill would tax cuts for the top 1% become HANDOUTS
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Don't you mean that the top 1% would pay a percentage of the tax bill equal to their share of total income?

I.E. if the top 1% takes home 20% of the income, they "should" pay 20% of the taxes, by your standard?

Or do you actually mean 1% of the population should always pay 1% of the taxes, regardless of income?
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

Deuce said:
Don't you mean that the top 1% would pay a percentage of the tax bill equal to their share of total income?

I.E. if the top 1% takes home 20% of the income, they "should" pay 20% of the taxes, by your standard?

Or do you actually mean 1% of the population should always pay 1% of the taxes, regardless of income?
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I don't believe in income taxes. but using that standard the top 1% are paying about 40% of the income taxes and they make about 22% of the income

that means they are still way overtaxed
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
I don't believe in income taxes. but using that standard the top 1% are paying about 40% of the income taxes and they make about 22% of the income

that means they are still way overtaxed
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So, the first one, not the second. Just checking. (because the second would be horrifyingly regressive taxation)

I would point out that income taxes aren't the only taxes. Better to compare total taxes paid rather than just focusing on income taxes.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

Deuce said:
So, the first one, not the second. Just checking. (because the second would be horrifyingly regressive taxation)

I would point out that income taxes aren't the only taxes. Better to compare total taxes paid rather than just focusing on income taxes.
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the rich still pay the most taxes. the group with the highest effective federal tax rate are those making between 400K and 5 Million a year.

the bottom 20% pay negative federal rates on average meaning they get more than they pay

but no matter how you term it, the rich pay far more dollars for each dollar in benefit received than any other group. Thus saying tax cuts are handouts is idiotic
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

Yes, the organization that ceased to exist two years prior to the election stole it.



Makes perfect sense...
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
I don't believe in income taxes. but using that standard the top 1% are paying about 40% of the income taxes and they make about 22% of the income

that means they are still way overtaxed
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Flawed logic and plenty of bias and prejudice.

We could start all over again and return to the year 100,000 BC. (no taxes comment)

Or return to 1949 AD, when the tax rate was 90% for the millionaires....note "tax rate".....
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
the rich still pay the most taxes. the group with the highest effective federal tax rate are those making between 400K and 5 Million a year.
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Outdated numbers, but yeah, they have the highest effective federal rate of "so much income left over after taxes that they don't know what to do with it all" as well. Poor babies.

TurtleDude said:
the bottom 20% pay negative federal rates on average meaning they get more than they pay
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With respect to ALL federal taxes? No chance.

TurtleDude said:
but no matter how you term it, the rich pay far more dollars for each dollar in benefit received than any other group. Thus saying tax cuts are handouts is idiotic
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LOL! The wealthy easily receive the most benefit from public programs. If they didn't, they'd use their money to make changes. The question is whether the rest of the people will be allowed to receive anything at all. Self-aggrandizing right-wing pigs simply want it all for themselves. Unfortunately for them...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived...

It doesn't say anything about how much or how little income can be taxed or at what rates. Whatever Congress decides you owe is what you owe. By law. Resistance is illegal and grossly unpatriotic, not to mention immoral enough that we plop your butt in jail for it. Market conditions (brought about by idiot Republicans) currently demand that there be a price increase for public goods and services. Who are right-wingers to argue with the market?
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
that is idiotic. tax cuts mean you have less taken from you that you already earned. ONLY WHEN THE TOP ONE PERCENT PAY LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of the tax bill would tax cuts for the top 1% become HANDOUTS
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You're so far off base. You believe that the top 1% of earners should only pay 1% of the taxes when they take home 17% of all income and 93% of all income growth between 2010 and 2011?

That's why your guy didn't win.

When billionaires and millionaires are throwing pity parties for themselves while people make $50,000 or so a year are paying higher effective tax rates, you expect the people making normal salaries to vote for the guys the billionaires tell us to vote for?

I'm a capitalist, all right? I love the free market. I love my job. But to protect capitalism, you have to adjust for some of the inherent unfairness in it. If you leave it to its bare dog-eat-dog basics, there will come a time when the starving dogs will pile on the fat ones and begin eating. The fat dogs have to throw a bone to the hungry ones to keep them sated.

That's how we got such a huge middle class. The capitalists used to pay good wages to their workers. Good enough that a family could make it on one salary. Now, they hoard the wealth, drive wages down, and try to keep it all for themselves. If it keeps up, things can, will, and should get ugly.

I'd prefer it not. I'd prefer a decent safety net and good wages for working people instead of 90% of annual growth going to 1% of the population, while that same population whines about how awful their taxes are.

Boo-****ing-hoo.
 
Did ACORN steal The Election?

FilmFestGuy said:
You're so far off base. You believe that the top 1% of earners should only pay 1% of the taxes when they take home 17% of all income and 93% of all income growth between 2010 and 2011?

That's why your guy didn't win.

When billionaires and millionaires are throwing pity parties for themselves while people make $50,000 or so a year are paying higher effective tax rates, you expect the people making normal salaries to vote for the guys the billionaires tell us to vote for?

I'm a capitalist, all right? I love the free market. I love my job. But to protect capitalism, you have to adjust for some of the inherent unfairness in it. If you leave it to its bare dog-eat-dog basics, there will come a time when the starving dogs will pile on the fat ones and begin eating. The fat dogs have to throw a bone to the hungry ones to keep them sated.

That's how we got such a huge middle class. The capitalists used to pay good wages to their workers. Good enough that a family could make it on one salary. Now, they hoard the wealth, drive wages down, and try to keep it all for themselves. If it keeps up, things can, will, and should get ugly.

I'd prefer it not. I'd prefer a decent safety net and good wages for working people instead of 90% of annual growth going to 1% of the population, while that same population whines about how awful their taxes are.

Boo-****ing-hoo.
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What in any of what you just wrote would cause or create to be caused better middle income jobs? Every discussion is about how you can tax the wealthy for more gov giveaway programs and says absolutely nothing about stimulating job growth and creation. The tax talk and budget talk is all bull**** smoke and mirrors.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

VanceMack said:
What in any of what you just wrote would cause or create to be caused better middle income jobs? Every discussion is about how you can tax the wealthy for more gov giveaway programs and says absolutely nothing about stimulating job growth and creation. The tax talk and budget talk is all bull**** smoke and mirrors.
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The topic is did ACORN steal the election.

Nope.

The reason your guy didn't win and your party lost seats is because they are viewed by a majority of Americans as doing anything they can to get tax breaks for the Koch Bros, et. al. and not giving a **** about the middle class - whose wages have stagnated for years.

If you'd like to discuss, in detail, jobs creation bills, I'm glad to do so in that thread, but as for this thread - I'm merely trying to point out why people don't like the Republican Party very much right now and why your side lost seats in the House (despite being able to gerrymander more than half of the states), lost seats in the Senate (despite EVERYONE thinking you were going to gain), and lost the White House.

Calling everyone who makes less than six digits "envious teat-sucklers" isn't going to win you very many votes. And openly campaigning for tax cuts for billionaires when you claim to be for reducing the deficit isn't either.
 
Did ACORN steal The Election?

FilmFestGuy said:
The topic is did ACORN steal the election.

Nope.

The reason your guy didn't win and your party lost seats is because they are viewed by a majority of Americans as doing anything they can to get tax breaks for the Koch Bros, et. al. and not giving a **** about the middle class - whose wages have stagnated for years.

If you'd like to discuss, in detail, jobs creation bills, I'm glad to do so in that thread, but as for this thread - I'm merely trying to point out why people don't like the Republican Party very much right now and why your side lost seats in the House (despite being able to gerrymander more than half of the states), lost seats in the Senate (despite EVERYONE thinking you were going to gain), and lost the White House.

Calling everyone who makes less than six digits "envious teat-sucklers" isn't going to win you very many votes. And openly campaigning for tax cuts for billionaires when you claim to be for reducing the deficit isn't either.
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Nothing in your quote applied to ACORN. it did apply to taxing the rich. Nothing in this post applies to ACORN. It does apply to whining about the rich. Nothing about your whining about the rich and taxes has anything to do about middle income jobs. Long and short of it...you are whining about the rich and wanting them to pay more taxes.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

VanceMack said:
Nothing in your quote applied to ACORN. it did apply to taxing the rich. Nothing in this post applies to ACORN. It does apply to whining about the rich. Nothing about your whining about the rich and taxes has anything to do about middle income jobs. Long and short of it...you are whining about the rich and wanting them to pay more taxes.
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If we're going to get serious about the deficit, then yes, they need to. Eventually, I think we all need to - but not until we get back down to under 5% unemployment.

You guys lost the election because you accuse the middle class of being envious. You see envy in everything, even when not present.

Our system is failing a lot of people right now. But not the wealthy. In suggesting lowered tax rates for the rich as a major part of the platform, YOUR side pissed a lot of people off and you lost.

And you still are running around blaming everyone and everything except for your terrible ideas about how to (supposedly) fix the deficit by cutting tax rates for rich people and raising military spending.

Bad ideas don't win elections. That's the point.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

FilmFestGuy said:
If we're going to get serious about the deficit, then yes, they need to. Eventually, I think we all need to - but not until we get back down to under 5% unemployment.

You guys lost the election because you accuse the middle class of being envious. You see envy in everything, even when not present.

Our system is failing a lot of people right now. But not the wealthy. In suggesting lowered tax rates for the rich as a major part of the platform, YOUR side pissed a lot of people off and you lost.

And you still are running around blaming everyone and everything except for your terrible ideas about how to (supposedly) fix the deficit by cutting tax rates for rich people and raising military spending.

Bad ideas don't win elections. That's the point.
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'We' guys lost the election because Libertarian candidates dont draw much support. The GOP lost the election because they dont pander enough to the dependent classes. You say 'bad ideas' dont win elections? :lamo Please. Promising everything to everyone is a 'bad idea'. Mortgaging your grandkids future by dumping todays irresponsibility and debt on them is a 'bad idea'. Voting for a guy because of his skin color is a 'bad idea'. Wreckless and irresponsible government is a 'bad idea'.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

Cardinal Fang said:
Outdated numbers, but yeah, they have the highest effective federal rate of "so much income left over after taxes that they don't know what to do with it all" as well. Poor babies.


With respect to ALL federal taxes? No chance.


LOL! The wealthy easily receive the most benefit from public programs. If they didn't, they'd use their money to make changes. The question is whether the rest of the people will be allowed to receive anything at all. Self-aggrandizing right-wing pigs simply want it all for themselves. Unfortunately for them...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived...

It doesn't say anything about how much or how little income can be taxed or at what rates. Whatever Congress decides you owe is what you owe. By law. Resistance is illegal and grossly unpatriotic, not to mention immoral enough that we plop your butt in jail for it. Market conditions (brought about by idiot Republicans) currently demand that there be a price increase for public goods and services. Who are right-wingers to argue with the market?
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a strange and sickening combination of statist fascism and class envy.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

VanceMack said:
'We' guys lost the election because Libertarian candidates dont draw much support. The GOP lost the election because they dont pander enough to the dependent classes. You say 'bad ideas' dont win elections? :lamo Please. Promising everything to everyone is a 'bad idea'. Mortgaging your grandkids future by dumping todays irresponsibility and debt on them is a 'bad idea'. Voting for a guy because of his skin color is a 'bad idea'. Wreckless and irresponsible government is a 'bad idea'.
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the GOP lost the election because those who voted on economic issues were more likely to be losers or those who get power pandering to losers than winners.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

VanceMack said:
'We' guys lost the election because Libertarian candidates dont draw much support. The GOP lost the election because they dont pander enough to the dependent classes. You say 'bad ideas' dont win elections? :lamo Please. Promising everything to everyone is a 'bad idea'. Mortgaging your grandkids future by dumping todays irresponsibility and debt on them is a 'bad idea'. Voting for a guy because of his skin color is a 'bad idea'. Wreckless and irresponsible government is a 'bad idea'.
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Oh, Republicans don't hold a monopoly on bad ideas. Don't get me wrong...Democrats pretty much suck, too. For my taste, they simply suck slightly less.

But saying you're about fixing the deficit while spending more on the military and cutting taxes on the rich simply isn't going to get you elected.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
the GOP lost the election because those who voted on economic issues were more likely to be losers or those who get power pandering to losers than winners.
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Or, because you guys continue to refer to half of the population as losers - when 90% of the half you call losers are actually hard-working people who are having trouble keeping up.

Call them losers, and they won't vote your way.

And this board proves that this apparently the strategy you guys are going to continue to take.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

FilmFestGuy said:
Oh, Republicans don't hold a monopoly on bad ideas. Don't get me wrong...Democrats pretty much suck, too. For my taste, they simply suck slightly less.

But saying you're about fixing the deficit while spending more on the military and cutting taxes on the rich simply isn't going to get you elected.

That's all I'm saying.
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Personally Im about massive across the board cuts AND across the board tax increases. Im also all about killing ALL social services at the fed level. But thats not what this was or is about. No one stole the election. Dependent nation voted to be dependent.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

TurtleDude said:
the GOP lost the election because those who voted on economic issues were more likely to be losers or those who get power pandering to losers than winners.
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Nah...I dont think there are enough intelligent, educated voters from either side of the political aisle to have swayed the election. This election was 'won' by a significant voting bloc voting for skin color and others voting for crumbs.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

VanceMack said:
Personally Im about massive across the board cuts AND across the board tax increases. Im also all about killing ALL social services at the fed level. But thats not what this was or is about. No one stole the election. Dependent nation voted to be dependent.
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We can at least agree on the lack of theft. But if you continue to insist that only "dependents" voted for Obama or Democratic Senators, you're going to continue not winning.

Calling your electors "losers" is almost as effective as trying to define what "legitimate rape" is as far as earning votes.
 
Re: Did ACORN steal The Election?

FilmFestGuy said:
Or, because you guys continue to refer to half of the population as losers - when 90% of the half you call losers are actually hard-working people who are having trouble keeping up.

Call them losers, and they won't vote your way.

And this board proves that this apparently the strategy you guys are going to continue to take.
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if you demand others pay more taxes to fund what you want you are generally a parasite or a loser.

I am not here to convince losers to stop being parasites. I am here to call that attitude what it is
 
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