How do you measure laziness?

A good measure of laziness is who you voted for.

I’ve worked with some people I’ve considered lazy. In the design process of a product one can solve a problem by applying solutions that have worked in the past. Sometimes those ‘standard’ solutions result in high cost; but, too bad that is the way it’s done. One particular case we would have to pay for the development of a custom connector adding high costs and development time for one extra signal contact. I challenged the team of 8, from two companies, several times to find a way to reduce the signals needed by one. They all told me that there was no way to do it because “This is how it’s always done.” After two weeks I came up with a simple solution. I asked if anyone else was working on a solution and “No.” was the answer. I have a patent for the solution which I didn’t share with any of the other 8 which is generally done. In my opinion the 8 others were lazy making an average salary that is in the 80k range.

Dooble said:

What do you know?

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What can you tell me about your choice for president? Did you even vote?

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I did not.

Cilogy said:

One of the most amusing lines of attack against a large portion of Americans is that they are lazy "takers" who don't want the American dream. Hilarious I know, but I love this because while many politicians embrace this ideology, they simultaneously criticize others for being divisive and waging "class warfare". To me, this is one of the biggest lies today that is unnecessarily dividing the American people when we really should be uniting with each other against the political establishment.

This idea of a significant population of Americans being lazy is purported so much that you'd think there is hard evidence for it, but is there? You can easily measure how many people are unemployed, or how many people are receiving welfare, but how do you objectively measure laziness? It's such a subjective concept but folks seem to love running to it as a way to sway voters. How can so many people claim to know this and use it as a wedge issue with such confidence?

Thoughts?

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Hello everybody! :2wave:

For the poll question "Can you actually measure laziness?" I voted No. The general definition on Wikipedia for laziness states: "Laziness (also called indolence) is a disinclination to activity or exertion despite having the ability to do so. It is often used as a pejorative; related terms for a person seen to be lazy include couch potato, slacker, and bludger."

Looking at this definition, and then adding the political context that Cilogy places the question in prevents me from answering Yes. As the original poster has pointed out, politicians do use the word (or insinuate it through other words) to negatively describe Americans who are being assisted in one form or another by the government. While I am positive that there are "lazy" people who are using the system to aid themselves; I am also positive that there are those who are truly in need.

A prime example of this use (through insinuation with other words) was the famous Romney speech where he insinuated that 47% of Americans are lazy, "…These are people who pay no income tax…My job is is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives." Of course, without a true measure to back up his claim he had to later recant these words in an interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity. “In this case I said something that’s just completely wrong.”

Just as Mycroft, TheGirlNextDoor, and UtahBill have pointed out, it is something that can be seen (or more easily measured) on a personal level; but I do not think that it can be so easily defined and measured on a national scale with all of the variables that each person's situation brings to the table, so to speak (especially in a political context where it is used to appeal on a more emotional level).

A perfect example is the guy I saw sitting on the curb with a sign that said "No work, need money, food" with a "Now Taking Applications" sign right behind him on the local Waffle House. Last time I checked, the Waffle House will hire anyone that can breath and blink at the same time. Some Americans need to take their nose out of the air and work wherever they can. I distinctly remember my father working 2 jobs. One delivering milk, the other as custodian for Servicemaster. He had no pride when it came to providing for my mom, brother, and me. Whatever put food on the table was done.

MarineTpartier said:

A perfect example is the guy I saw sitting on the curb with a sign that said "No work, need money, food" with a "Now Taking Applications" sign right behind him on the local Waffle House. Last time I checked, the Waffle House will hire anyone that can breath and blink at the same time. Some Americans need to take their nose out of the air and work wherever they can. I distinctly remember my father working 2 jobs. One delivering milk, the other as custodian for Servicemaster. He had no pride when it came to providing for my mom, brother, and me. Whatever put food on the table was done.

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That guy was a bum. There has always been idiots like that and they live in the fringe of society.

MarineTpartier said:

A perfect example is the guy I saw sitting on the curb with a sign that said "No work, need money, food" with a "Now Taking Applications" sign right behind him on the local Waffle House. Last time I checked, the Waffle House will hire anyone that can breath and blink at the same time. Some Americans need to take their nose out of the air and work wherever they can. I distinctly remember my father working 2 jobs. One delivering milk, the other as custodian for Servicemaster. He had no pride when it came to providing for my mom, brother, and me. Whatever put food on the table was done.

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I've worked two full time jobs a couple times during my working career. I agree with the, "You do whatever it is you need to do, to take care of your family". Anyone that does anything less, isn't trying very damn hard. Hell, I remember working in a white collar job full time, and working for a maid service when I wasn't working at my other job. Cleaning people's nasty toilets and disgusting houses. It sure as hell wasn't glamorous, but it paid the bills and I've never needed to get any sort of public assistance.... just saying. There are some people out in the world who are 'holding out' for something that pays them what they think they are worth. That's all fine and good, but in the mean time, do what you have to do.

FreedomFromAll said:

That guy was a bum. There has always been idiots like that and they live in the fringe of society.

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Unfortunately, being a bum isn't something that is frowned upon anymore. Sure, I'll give the guy some food. I did actually. I also pointed the sign out to him.

If you are capable of working and yet you have lived on the public teat for most of your adult life then you are lazy. Otherwise my thoughts go toward the show "Hoarders". Especially the ones on that show that not only collect crap but fail to clean as well. What really gets me is a combination of the two....don't work and don't clean up the house. That is especially over the top lazy, IMO.

Plebeian said:

Just as Mycroft, TheGirlNextDoor, and UtahBill have pointed out, it is something that can be seen (or more easily measured) on a personal level; but I do not think that it can be so easily defined and measured on a national scale with all of the variables that each person's situation brings to the table, so to speak (especially in a political context where it is used to appeal on a more emotional level).

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Agreed.

The point I was trying to make is that the concept of calling so many Americans lazy as a political tool is really misguided and really just offensive. In my opinion, as soon as we stop yelling at each other about how careless or entitled the other is, we might actually be able to work together against the politicians who are taking us for a ride.

Cilogy said:

Agreed.

The point I was trying to make is that the concept of calling so many Americans lazy as a political tool is really misguided and really just offensive. In my opinion, as soon as we stop yelling at each other about how careless or entitled the other is, we might actually be able to work together against the politicians who are taking us for a ride.

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Except nobody one should take seriously ever refers to all poor people as lazy. By my measure, the rich have every right to cling to their money when the sponsors of the poor refuse to even acknowledge that significant abuses exist let alone agree to anything that would involve going after those folks. I am neither rich, nor poor. I used to be a democrat but their inflexibility rooted in their arrogance, among a few other things, just became too much for me.

Fisher said:

Except nobody one should take seriously ever refers to all poor people as lazy. By my measure, the rich have every right to cling to their money when the sponsors of the poor refuse to even acknowledge that significant abuses exist let alone agree to anything that would involve going after those folks.

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Well it's been a pretty common wedge in politics recently. I'm sure the abuse exists in high numbers, but it normally seems over-exaggerated.

I am neither rich, nor poor. I used to be a democrat but their inflexibility rooted in their arrogance, among a few other things, just became too much for me.

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lol good point

melons said:

If you are capable of working and yet you have lived on the public teat for most of your adult life then you are lazy. Otherwise my thoughts go toward the show "Hoarders". Especially the ones on that show that not only collect crap but fail to clean as well. What really gets me is a combination of the two....don't work and don't clean up the house. That is especially over the top lazy, IMO.

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My team members were lazy, these people you describe are sick.
We are looking to buy another house. A fix up short sale would be good if its in the right place. We have been seeing homes that are full of clutter, garages that are full of junk where the cars have been parked in the drive. These people had jobs, i.e. not lazy, but don't know how to live and are essentially sick.

OhIsee.Then said:

My team members were lazy, these people you describe are sick.
We are looking to buy another house. A fix up short sale would be good if its in the right place. We have been seeing homes that are full of clutter, garages that are full of junk where the cars have been parked in the drive. These people had jobs, i.e. not lazy, but don't know how to live and are essentially sick.

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Yes I guess sick is a good way to put it. But I work all day too and I still come home and wash dishes, clean up, do laundry. I make my bed in the mornings, pick up my dirty clothes, put away my clean clothes and the list goes on. Some folks go home after work every day and sit on their butt.

If you can, and you should, and you know it, but you just won't because you just don't wanna.... yer lazy.

Laziness is definitely subjective to a certain extent. Some people are workaholics and view normal people as lazy. Some people have some type of disease that makes them appear lazy. Some people are not lazy they just lack the ambition to do more than their lifestyle requires them to do.

Then there are people that for the sake of the people around them would be better off being lazy, rather than screwing up everything that they touch.

But none of this matters in a country with liberty and freedom. Laziness is a choice it may not seem like a good choice to some people but those people should mind their own business.

But then this isnt a conversation about personal choice is it? Its an excuse to push political belief onto others. I dont know what its like in other States but getting whats normally called welfare isnt a given here, there are requirements and time limits. And generally life sucks for those people on welfare. You cannot really own anything of worth. You must stay poor to be on welfare. In fact its a lot of work to stay on welfare for a long period of time. One could say that long term welfare people are not lazy at all actually I would say stupid. Its like in my youth I knew some people that lived to party. Everyday they woke up and figured out how they would make that happen. They would do day jobs and then go party it away. They were much more active than I was with my job and overtime. I partied too but it was much easier with a pay check and home to live in. Lazy seems to be a hard way of life.

Well, I know a lot of my professors saying that this is the generations of the lazy. Students in all majors are way under-performing then what people used too.

I'm lazy as hell, and a lazy person knows one when he sees one.

W=FΔd it's a pretty simple equation. If you not applying force over a distance, your not doing work and are lazy.

Can you actually measure laziness?

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I have consulted with Certain Tortoises, and the verdict is in: if you don't make enough money that you have to pay net Federal Income tax, you are lazy. :mrgreen:



(j/k)

I use a lazer.

Cilogy said:

One of the most amusing lines of attack against a large portion of Americans is that they are lazy "takers" who don't want the American dream. Hilarious I know, but I love this because while many politicians embrace this ideology, they simultaneously criticize others for being divisive and waging "class warfare". To me, this is one of the biggest lies today that is unnecessarily dividing the American people when we really should be uniting with each other against the political establishment.

This idea of a significant population of Americans being lazy is purported so much that you'd think there is hard evidence for it, but is there? You can easily measure how many people are unemployed, or how many people are receiving welfare, but how do you objectively measure laziness? It's such a subjective concept but folks seem to love running to it as a way to sway voters. How can so many people claim to know this and use it as a wedge issue with such confidence?

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

The problem with society isn't that people are lazy... its that they are so damn stupid.

0bserver92 said:

W=FΔd it's a pretty simple equation. If you not applying force over a distance, your not doing work and are lazy.

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I actually like that concept.

I know a lot of people who exert enough force, over too little a distance. I also know a lot of people who exert too little force over a very long distance.

OhIsee.Then said:

I’ve worked with some people I’ve considered lazy. In the design process of a product one can solve a problem by applying solutions that have worked in the past. Sometimes those ‘standard’ solutions result in high cost; but, too bad that is the way it’s done. One particular case we would have to pay for the development of a custom connector adding high costs and development time for one extra signal contact. I challenged the team of 8, from two companies, several times to find a way to reduce the signals needed by one. They all told me that there was no way to do it because “This is how it’s always done.” After two weeks I came up with a simple solution. I asked if anyone else was working on a solution and “No.” was the answer. I have a patent for the solution which I didn’t share with any of the other 8 which is generally done. In my opinion the 8 others were lazy making an average salary that is in the 80k range.

Click to expand...

Creatures of habit.