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What's YOUR debt ceiling limit?

at what point do you no longer accept the premise that we have to raise the debt ceil


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H. Lee White

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That is, at what point do you no longer accept the premise that we have to raise the debt ceiling?
Please be sure to explain your response.
 
We should have never subsidized the failing markets or tried to bolster real estate/401K prices. It keeps people from going back to equity in their investments as they should.
 
None of the above, shouldn't be allowed to deficit spend at all.

"Debt ceiling" should be progressively lowered. Congress should be required to pass an annual budget that is at the very least balanced but we should be running a surplus and doing nothing with it except for paying down that debt.
 
I chose $10T ago but that's anly because that answer was as close to 10% of prior year GDP as the choices allowed.

I don't have a problem with sovereign debt and understand that some public debt is necessary but it also needs to be manageable debt. If we are wholly unrestrained in printing dollars then the dollar is worthless.
 
You cannot simply not raise the debt ceiling.

Thats like saying I owe 20,000 on my credit card but I refuse to pay more than 10,000.

The debt ceiling isn't how much I am willing to borrow - it is how much I have already borrowed.

Refusing to raise the debt ceiling amounts to not paying your debts. Your credit rating goes down - the interest rate, and therefore the cost of your debt, goes up.

You cannot make your financial situation better by refusing to pay your bills.
 
That is, at what point do you no longer accept the premise that we have to raise the debt ceiling?
Please be sure to explain your response.


I misread the question and chose the wrong answer. I chose never when it should have been 10T ago.
 
ZERO DEBT LIMIT. If we don't have the money, we don't spend it. Doesn't really sound like it's a difficult concept to understand so far as I'm concerned.
 
You cannot simply not raise the debt ceiling.
Sure you can. Its always an option.

Thats like saying I owe 20,000 on my credit card but I refuse to pay more than 10,000.
No, its not. Its like saying that you owe 20k on your cards and cannot borrow more.

The debt ceiling isn't how much I am willing to borrow - it is how much I have already borrowed.
Incorrect. Its only an issue because the government wants to borrow more -- if that were not the case, the debt wold not need to go up.

Refusing to raise the debt ceiling amounts to not paying your debts.
Again, incorrect - not borrow more money in no way means the government cannot pay its debts.

Your credit rating goes down - the interest rate, and therefore the cost of your debt, goes up.
Our credit rating went down after the last limit hike - what happened to the bond rates?

You cannot make your financial situation better by refusing to pay your bills.
The government -can- pay its "bills" w/o borrong more money.
 
You cannot simply not raise the debt ceiling.

Thats like saying I owe 20,000 on my credit card but I refuse to pay more than 10,000.

The debt ceiling isn't how much I am willing to borrow - it is how much I have already borrowed.

Refusing to raise the debt ceiling amounts to not paying your debts. Your credit rating goes down - the interest rate, and therefore the cost of your debt, goes up.

You cannot make your financial situation better by refusing to pay your bills.


I think the general idea is to cut spending elsewhere to pay onto the debt, not stop paying your debts. It much like paying your credit cards minimum monthly payment but having such high interest that your balance actually increases every month. At some point you have to make changes or it will swallow everything.
 
Refusing to raise the debt ceiling just accelerates the problem of U.S. default. The problem is the deficit. Not raising the debt ceiling doesn't solve the deficit, it just triggers, in a likelihood, a Great Depression. Good luck paying off the debt then.
 
I'd rather see tax increases and budget cuts except in times of war. Of course, we're in a time of war right now so... I just trust the military leaders to know how much it'll cost.

When it comes to tax increases I suggest they be focused as much as possible to interests who make money on the American people but have figured out ways to avoid paying American taxes.

Budget cuts should largest extent possible avoid cuts in education, scientific research and things that enhance economic growth.
 
This isn't really a choice. Raising the Debt Ceiling means allowing the government to sell more US Treasury bonds. The debt ceiling has nothing to do with the national debt.

I think some people view the debt ceiling as a sort of ceiling that we are allowed to spend up to. They think that by not raising the debt ceiling, we're forcing the government to spend within it's means. And that's an understandable mistake, especially since the vote on the debt ceiling is a wholly unnecessary one that exists only for political posturing.

By raising the debt ceiling we aren't agreeing to future spending, raising the debt ceiling is about agreeing to pay for things we've already spent. Not raising the debt ceiling isn't like cancelling a credit card, it's like declaring bankruptcy.
 
Refusing to raise the debt ceiling just accelerates the problem of U.S. default.
Default only happens when we cannot pay our debt service. Not raising the debt limit in no way necessitates a default.
 
This isn't really a choice. Raising the Debt Ceiling means allowing the government to sell more US Treasury bonds. The debt ceiling has nothing to do with the national debt.

I think some people view the debt ceiling as a sort of ceiling that we are allowed to spend up to. They think that by not raising the debt ceiling, we're forcing the government to spend within it's means. And that's an understandable mistake, especially since the vote on the debt ceiling is a wholly unnecessary one that exists only for political posturing.

By raising the debt ceiling we aren't agreeing to future spending, raising the debt ceiling is about agreeing to pay for things we've already spent. Not raising the debt ceiling isn't like cancelling a credit card, it's like declaring bankruptcy.
None of this is true.
-The deficits, and thus, the debt, is financed thru the sale of T-bills. No more T-bills = no wa to run a deficit = no increase in debt.
-Not raising the debt ceiling does force the government to live within its means because it cannot borrow more money.
-Not rasing the debt ceiling is not opening a new credit card whenr the others are maxed, and as such is certainly not bankruptcy.
 
Default only happens when we cannot pay our debt service. Not raising the debt limit in no way necessitates a default.
The only way to avoid default is to fix the deficit while continuing to make payments on the debt. Refusing to raise the debt limit doesn't fix the deficit and jeopardizes our ability to make payments on the debt, making default much more likely. Especially during a time of great polarization and obstruction in Congress.
 
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That is, at what point do you no longer accept the premise that we have to raise the debt ceiling?
Please be sure to explain your response.

We once borrowed $65,000 to buy a home. That's the last time we carried any debt. Living beneath one's means is a wonderful thing. More people should do it.

What?? No big screen on the charge card? No more fancy vacations I'll still be paying for next year? I don't expect the majority of people will ever learn. But the smart ones will.
 
We once borrowed $65,000 to buy a home. That's the last time we carried any debt. Living beneath one's means is a wonderful thing. More people should do it.

What?? No big screen on the charge card? No more fancy vacations I'll still be paying for next year? I don't expect the majority of people will ever learn. But the smart ones will.
Same here. We owe on our home and my car. Nothing else. Cash for everything.
 
I didn't answer and would think that by now people would have figured out it doesn't matter what we think.

The debt is never going to stop growing. Rather, it will inevitably be chased by reductions in the value of the dollar (inflation) to limit the actual value of the debt. In short, everyone but Obama's favored super rich will continue to be poorer in real spending power.
 
We once borrowed $65,000 to buy a home. That's the last time we carried any debt. Living beneath one's means is a wonderful thing. More people should do it.

What?? No big screen on the charge card? No more fancy vacations I'll still be paying for next year? I don't expect the majority of people will ever learn. But the smart ones will.

Maggie - you deserve both the big screen and a nice vacation. Go for it!!!!!

Having said that - one of the best days in my life was the day I sent in my final house payment a few years ago. There is something very very liberating about that. The only time I use credit now is when I can do so interest free like last year when we remodeled the bathroom upstairs and got 18 months free interest. Why write the check up front when you can use their money for 18 months. I send in those checks religiously and will have that paid off in a few months. And if feels even better when i kick back in that spa jacuzzi tub we had put in.
 
The only way to avoid a default is use available revenue to pay the debt service. We have -more- than enough revenue to do that.
Do we? You think our revenue won't be impacted if the government suddenly cuts or stops paying salaries and benefits to turn its attention to servicing the debt? You think consumer demand and corporate profits won't be effected? You think these problems won't trigger mass layoffs in the private market? You think the stock market will not crash upon news that the debt ceiling was not raised?
 
Not raising the debt ceiling alone will not put us in default, but we would have to take money from other programs for making debt payments. I do think there should be a debt ceiling but I would prefer that it not be approached so cavalierly.
 
Do we? You think our revenue won't be impacted if the government cuts or stops paying salaries and benefits...
First, you're presumuing things not in evidence, and assuming cuts that may or may not be made.
Second - as our revenue is arbout an order of magnitude greater than our debt service, even with those salary cuts, there will be enough.

But, go on and keep scaring people into believe that the government MUST live totally utterly its means for the country to survive.
 
Not raising the debt ceiling alone will not put us in default, but we would have to take money from other programs for making debt payments.
Well, yes. Spending will need to be cut.
Not being able to borrow money forces the decsion as to what spending is necessary and what spendng is not.
 
None of this is true.
-The deficits, and thus, the debt, is financed thru the sale of T-bills. No more T-bills = no wa to run a deficit = no increase in debt.
-Not raising the debt ceiling does force the government to live within its means because it cannot borrow more money.
-Not rasing the debt ceiling is not opening a new credit card whenr the others are maxed, and as such is certainly not bankruptcy.
Interesting. You say that none of this is true and then agree that the debt is financed through the sale of T-Bills.. Which is pretty much exactly what I said in my first statement.

As to the rest of it, you're just reiterating what I described as the incorrect, but understandably prevalent view of the debt ceiling with an additional "NUH UH".

Money is spent when the commitment is made to exchange funds for services, not when the actual money changes hands. In the case of personal finances, the commitment is almost always only made after money changes hands. Government and businesses on the other hand work in a much more structured budgetary environment. Money is spent in the budgetary process, not when the actual dollars change hands.

If you've ever dealt with the government or a large business you've seen this first hand. You win a contract to provide goods or services for the large entity. Legal agreements are drawn up and both sides budget accordingly. So while the actual money may transfer at some other point, the spending shows up on the books when the agreement is made. There are no consumer protections at this level, the government can't simply "return" a fighter that they don't want to pay for.

Not raising the debt ceiling means that the government refuses to pay what it is already legally contracted to pay without first renegotiating the contracts. The mistaken view is that this is like saying, Well I was planning on buying 10 F-35's but now I can only afford 3, so I'll just buy 3. Instead, this is like saying I ordered 10 F35's, but now I'm only going to pay for 3.

That's why the best analogy for raising the debt ceiling is to agree to pay your credit card statement rather than applying for a credit increase.
 
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