Kids n' Kondoms

Kandahar said:

I love how (some) conservatives frequently bitch about abortion, and bitch about people getting "handouts" because they have kids they can't afford. But are they willing to take any action whatsoever that could actually REDUCE those things? Nope. :roll:

Click to expand...

I have no problem with people using condoms and other birth control.So your attempt to make this about anti-birth control fails.

jamesrage said:

I have no problem with people using condoms and other birth control.So your attempt to make this about anti-birth control fails.

Click to expand...

You're just against government providing it. Right. :roll:

If you are truly against abortion and/or "handouts" for people with unwanted kids, then isn't providing them with free condoms a small price worth paying to reduce those more serious evils? You could provide a hell of a lot of condoms for the cost of government assistance for one unwanted child.

jamesrage said:

The purpose of schools is to educate, not pass out condoms. Its none of the school's business if kids have sex. If the kids want condoms then they can ask mom and dad for some. If mom and dad say no then they can take their allowance and buy condoms or hop their ass down to planned parenthood to get free condoms.

Click to expand...

Handing out condoms educates students that it's a positive thing to use protection before having sex. This decreases the chances of them being sidetracked from their education by stds or pregnancy. Do you have a problem with the fact that this is related to sex or is there some other larger umbrella issue that concerns you?

Kandahar said:

Those should be offered in places where they are needed too.



The harm reduction ability of these things is much more dubious (nonexistent?) than it is for condoms and/or clean needles.



That's absurd. No other distributor can be successfully sued for faulty condoms, unless it's due to negligence on their part. So why would schools be any different? Condoms do not have a 100% success rate, and as long as the distributor (whether it's a school or anyone else) isn't telling people otherwise, the user is acting at their own risk. Furthermore, most of the failure rate of condoms is due to misuse rather than production flaws.

Click to expand...

I started a thread on the sexuality forum below on how horrifically false the premise is that one-size-condom-fits all. The failure rate of wrong sized condoms is VERY high and a generic condom will NOT fit correctly over 50% of the time.

Most condom failure is due to it being the wrong size condom, not misuse.

So unless the school nurse is going to measure the erect penis of every boy and recording it, handing out condoms is CERTAIN to cause both unwanted pregnancies and being infected with STDs - using the WRONG condom given out by the school for false safe-sex.

So while having 11 year olds watch school required porn - do you think it should be straight porn, gay porn or bisexual porn - and should a "nurse" of the same or opposite gender be doing the measuring?

Handing out condoms is a DEADLY politically correct school practice. I think they should get sued the hell out of for a condom failure based upon their KNOWN false practice that one size fits all. No different than giving required vaccinations would be if having no knowledge if the child is allergic to eggs etc.

I do not believe one school with such a practice asks "how big is your penis when erect?" before handing a kid a condom.

Handing out condoms is a DEADLY policy calling it "safe."

Cardinal said:

Handing out condoms educates students that it's a positive thing to use protection before having sex. This decreases the chances of them being sidetracked from their education by stds or pregnancy. Do you have a problem with the fact that this is related to sex or is there some other larger umbrella issue that concerns you?

Click to expand...

It creates a false claim of disease and pregnancy safety.

MarineTpartier said:

A) The education system has nothing to do with condoms. I don't see schools distributing flu shots, immunization shots to keep kids from getting sick.

Why is this preventitive measure ok to be distributed in schools?

B) We want our schools to teach curriculum that is scientifically sound, correct? Abstinence is proven to be the most effective way to prevent STD's and unwanted pregnancy.

Click to expand...

flu shots public schools - Google Search

Perhaps because such efforts could work towards keeping children in school, rather than being relegated to the role of a parental figure in their prime learning and developmental years. Also less pregnancies reduce the burden and costs imposed on the health care system, much like the rationale for distributing the aforementioned flu shots free of charge.

Scientifically correct, sure, but pragmatism should enter the picture as well. Most of us recognize that kids who have willing sexual partners will have sex if possible and often so. Expecting otherwise and teaching accordingly is a recipe for disaster, evidenced by the abysmal failure abstinence only education has rendered thus far.

joko104 said:

It creates a false claim of disease and pregnancy safety.

Click to expand...

Wrong. It creates a true claim of decreased risk.

MarineTpartier said:

Here's my beef with your ideas.
A) The education system has nothing to do with condoms. I don't see schools distributing flu shots, immunization shots, or things like "Airraid" to keep kids from getting sick. Why is this preventitive measure ok to be distributed in schools? I tell you why. Because the education system continues to overstep it's bounds.

Click to expand...

Actually my school did provide flu shots and immunization shots. Why is it OK to provide condoms? Because the government has an interest in reducing its own future costs...and unwanted children are very expensive, not just for the parents but for the government too.

B) We want our schools to teach curriculum that is scientifically sound, correct? Abstinence is proven to be the most effective way to prevent STD's and unwanted pregnancy. We don't teach kids in drivers ed how to drive and text in order to avoid a wreck do we? No. We teach them not to drive and text to begin with. The argument "well, they're going to do it anyway" holds no water. We could teach that about stealing (just steal a little bit), cheating (just get the answer to one question), fighting (not shots to the face), bullying (only if the victim laughs about it), and all sorts of other activities. But we don't. We teach that all of these things are wrong. We should teach that irresponsible sex between teens is as well. We should teach them that they have no idea about the physical and emotional ramifications that come from sex. I'm not against school's teaching about the anatomy of a human being. I'm not against them explaining what intercourse is. However, I am against them teaching my kid about how to have sex and avoid the consequences.

Click to expand...

I am sorry but the overwhelming body of scientific evidence disagrees with you. Students who have abstinence-only sex education generally have sex just as often - and start at the same age - as any other students. They are less likely to practice safe sex though.

Cardinal said:

Wrong. It creates a true claim of decreased risk.

Click to expand...

No, it does not. Your asserting it does isn't proof of anything.

joko104 said:

No, it does not. Your asserting it does isn't proof of anything.

Click to expand...

Okayyyy. Who has made the claim that condoms are 100% safe?

Cardinal said:

Wrong. It creates a true claim of decreased risk.

Click to expand...

That is the popular slogan, but it is false, untrue, proven false. If the condom is too small, it will break. If to large it will slip off. Either way - HIV/AIDS, ALL STDS and pregnancy risk. Over half of all handed out condoms are known to be the wrong size, resulting in breakage or slippage.



Of generic condoms, over half are the wrong size: One size doesn't fit all

In this study, a substantial number of men reported a variety of problems with the fit and feel of condoms. Specifically, 21 percent reported that condoms felt too tight; 18 percent reported that condoms felt too short; 10 percent reported that condoms felt too loose; and 7 percent reported that condoms felt too long.

(total: 56% of genetic sized condoms - WRONG SIZE)

The result is condom failure:

Health professionals are regularly confronted by men's complaints that condoms do not fit, or that they are uncomfortable. Correct condom use is critical for preventing unwanted pregnancies and the spread of sexually transmissible infections (STI), yet an Indiana University study found that study participants who reported problems with the fit and feel of condoms were also among those who reported the highest rates of condoms breaking and slipping.

Let's teach them about oral sex and anal sex as alternative to avoid an unwanted pregnancy as well.


Just trying to reduce future costs folks.

joko104 said:

That is the popular slogan, but it is false, untrue, proven false.



Of generic condoms, over half are the wrong size: One size doesn't fit all

In this study, a substantial number of men reported a variety of problems with the fit and feel of condoms. Specifically, 21 percent reported that condoms felt too tight; 18 percent reported that condoms felt too short; 10 percent reported that condoms felt too loose; and 7 percent reported that condoms felt too long.

(total: 56% of genetic sized condoms - WRONG SIZE)

The result is condom failure:

Health professionals are regularly confronted by men's complaints that condoms do not fit, or that they are uncomfortable. Correct condom use is critical for preventing unwanted pregnancies and the spread of sexually transmissible infections (STI), yet an Indiana University study found that study participants who reported problems with the fit and feel of condoms were also among those who reported the highest rates of condoms breaking and slipping.

Click to expand...

Link?

It sounds to me like those complaints stem from not using condoms correctly, which is something that is addressed in sex ed.

WI Crippler said:

Let's teach them about oral sex and anal sex as alternative to avoid an unwanted pregnancy as well.


Just trying to reduce future costs folks.

Click to expand...

Anal sex has the highest rate of STDs transmission, oral sex the lowest.

ab9924 said:

Well, it may not be the government's responsibility, but the welfare mother payment cheques come out of YOUR taxes. HAHAHA

Click to expand...

Only because certain ignorant people in our society think it should. If welfare momma wants to take good care of herself, and her child, than that is a perfect job for charity, one in which I would donate to without question. That is also assuming we can get people to stop thinking that it's the government's job to clean up after people that **** on their own carpet, so to speak.

Regardless, The term "Sins of the father" survived outside of the church for a reason.

Cardinal said:

Link?


............

Click to expand...

Condoms Are Not 'One Size Fits All

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070914191108.htm

joko104 said:

Condoms Are Not 'One Size Fits All'

Click to expand...

That is already understood. Also, that's not a link. I'd like to know where your getting your complaints against condoms.

WI Crippler said:

Let's teach them about oral sex and anal sex as alternative to avoid an unwanted pregnancy as well.


Just trying to reduce future costs folks.

Click to expand...

Boys have no problems knowing where to find a free hole to stick what they got. Girls, OTOH, seem to be lacking a proper knowledge of biology, with many claiming all sorts of old wives tales as proper methods of preventing a pregnancy.

joko104 said:

I started a thread on the sexuality forum below on how horrifically false the premise is that one-size-condom-fits all. The failure rate of wrong sized condoms is VERY high and a generic condom will NOT fit correctly over 50% of the time.

Most condom failure is due to it being the wrong size condom, not misuse.

Click to expand...

Using the wrong size *is* misuse.

So unless the school nurse is going to measure the erect penis of every boy and recording it,

Click to expand...

Or...
The school nurse could just give them whichever size they wanted, just like they do at CVS.

handing out condoms is CERTAIN to cause both unwanted pregnancies and being infected with STDs - using the WRONG condom given out by the school for false safe-sex.

Click to expand...

Is there one dude anywhere on earth who is going to decide to wait longer for sex because he can't figure out which size condom he needs? :roll:

There are three possibilities: 1) They'll try them on and figure out which size works best for them, 2) They'll make their best guess, and possibly be slightly less protected than with perfect use, or 3) They'll not use a condom at all and be completely unprotected. Options #1 and #2 are a hell of a lot better than #3.

From the CDC.

Consistent and correct use of male latex condoms can reduce (though not eliminate) the risk of STD transmission. To achieve the maximum protective effect, condoms must be used both consistently and correctly. Inconsistent use can lead to STD acquisition because transmission can occur with a single act of intercourse with an infected partner.

Click to expand...

CDC - Condom Effectiveness - Male Latex Condoms and Sexually Transmitted Diseases

Solution? Good education on the proper use of condoms.

Kandahar said:

Using the wrong size *is* misuse.



Or...
The school nurse could just give them whichever size they wanted, just like they do at CVS.

Click to expand...

That is not what the schools are doing or teaching.

Hare said:

flu shots public schools - Google Search

Perhaps because such efforts could work towards keeping children in school, rather than being relegated to the role of a parental figure in their prime learning and developmental years. Also less pregnancies reduce the burden and costs imposed on the health care system, much like the rationale for distributing the aforementioned flu shots free of charge.

Scientifically correct, sure, but pragmatism should enter the picture as well. Most of us recognize that kids who have willing sexual partners will have sex if possible and often so. Expecting otherwise and teaching accordingly is a recipe for disaster, evidenced by the abysmal failure abstinence only education has rendered thus far.

Click to expand...

While you may find some schools that will distribute flu shots, that is not the status quo in the education system. More times than not, it is not offered.
I never said they shouldn't teach about condoms. I said they shouldn't distribute them. However, I also don't believe that condoms and the like should be the focus of the curriculum. I believe that abstinence should be the focus of the curriculum. The reason so many conservatives are against this is because it always leads into teachers overstepping bounds. Teachers should teach facts, stats, etc. When demonstrations start occurring, young minds race. When young minds race, you get idiotic teachers saying idiotic things.

joko104 said:

That is not what the schools are doing or teaching.

Click to expand...

Then you should take it up with your school board and/or elect some new people to it. If that doesn't work, perhaps your local media can light a fire under their ass.

joko104 said:

Condoms Are Not 'One Size Fits All

Condoms Are Not 'One Size Fits All'

Click to expand...

Nothing in this article counters the argument that the correct use and education of condoms use is necessary in order for them to be effective. Neither is there anything in your link to substantiate your argument that claims of condom effectiveness are "completely safe."

Are you advocating that condoms of different sizes are handed out in schools as well? Because I could get behind that if that's your concern.

Cardinal said:

From the CDC.



CDC - Condom Effectiveness - Male Latex Condoms and Sexually Transmitted Diseases

Solution? Good education on the proper use of condoms.

Click to expand...

That article makes NO mention of condom size. The horrifically wrong myth is that put on any condom and you're safe (or if the guy has one on the girl thinks she's safe.)

That is false.

Condoms offer excellent protection against STDs / pregnancy. I was highly promiscuous prior to my married life with highly promiscuous and therefore high risk women. I had an absolute condom use rule. Never an exception (but then when married). Never a failure. BUT I absolutely used ONLY my condoms I selected and I kept total storage control of, and then followed the use them correctly rules too.

Acting up and presenting generic condoms as safe is a LIE. A huge lie. For schools to act towards parent's child with a "something is better than nothing" model is literally playing Russian roulette with the children as known, statistical HIGH risks to do something generically correct and factually wrong and stupid.

The schools do NOT do it correctly, so as done it is are horribly bad practice - even setting aside whether this is a job for schools.

Underaged sex is illegal. Lots of kids do. So is using drugs. Lots of kids do that too. Adulterated and badly made drugs kills kids. Under the "safety" theory, schools should give kids illegal drugs so kids that use illegal drugs are not using tainted or unpredictable quality and strength drugs. Same theory of protecting the kids - OTHER than with condoms they don't even bother to find out if they will do the particular kid any good at all.