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Criminalize racist and bigoted words?

Should racist and bigoted words be outlawed?

  • Total voters
    90
TurtleDude said:
If someone punches you in the face for merely using a term they don't like they will go to jail and you should sue them. If my son were to tell a joke and some adult took offense and punched him I would kill the adult and I doubt I would be charged
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Physical violence aside, the real point here is that some people want to say racist things and hide behind the First Amendment when they get callled on it. If someone works in a retail environment and they insult the customers, they get fired, right? But don't they have the right to free speech?
 
rocket88 said:
Physical violence aside, the real point here is that some people want to say racist things and hide behind the First Amendment when they get callled on it. If someone works in a retail environment and they insult the customers, they get fired, right? But don't they have the right to free speech?
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They do not have a right to a job at that particular place. Decisions have consequences. As Maggie pointed out, the First Amendment is a restriction on government, not a restriction on others.
 
joko104 said:
On another thread it has been brought up that some schools are taking punitive actions students they discover use the "N" word on the Internet. If young people should be punished for using racist or bigoted words, obviously adults should.

Should racist and bigoted words and expressions be outlawed?
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The key phrase in this is "on the internet". It is not the responsibility to police the internet, nor do they have a place to take action against things said on the internet (while outside of school). Anything said while in school, on a school computer, or directly affecting and complained about during school, in my mind is fair game for punitive action. It's the responsibility of the parents to teach their children proper behavior, nor the school's.

The reason I said "directly affecting someone" is because this happened to me once. I had a crazy ex girlfriend who I broke up with and she decided to try and defame me by creating a fake website with all sorts of disgusting and untrue things on it about me. I had to use my school resource officer to get her to take it down, since it was in fact illegal.
 
Fisher said:
They do not have a right to a job at that particular place. Decisions have consequences. As Maggie pointed out, the First Amendment is a restriction on government, not a restriction on others.
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In other words, you do have the freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want, but you have to live with the consequences.
 
MaggieD said:
Yes, I would say they are. The right to freedom of speech simply means that our government can't persecute us or abridge that right. It's not referring to a private citizen. You don't have some pure, unadulterated "right" to free speech.

You don't have freedom of speech here. You don't have it at work. You don't have it on private property. Freedom of speech means freedom from government intervention for exercising your right to free speech. Vito Corleone may take exception to your right at any time.
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I would argue this a little bit. You do have freedom of speech wherever you go, but you have to live with whatever consequences arise as a result. Later in the thread it is said that if you say something that offends someone and they hit you for it, they get charged, which is fine. You're protected there because they assaulted you as a result of what you said, which is illegal. On the other hand, you still have your broken nose. In the work analogy, you can say whatever you want, but you will wind up without a job. No one can put a strip of duct tape across your mouth legally, but firing someone for bad behavior is perfectly legal and rightful action against a dumbass employee.
 
Fisher said:
They do not have a right to a job at that particular place. Decisions have consequences. As Maggie pointed out, the First Amendment is a restriction on government, not a restriction on others.
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Right, that's the point. You have no freedom from consequences.
 
rocket88 said:
The real issue here is that people don't want to be called out for what they say. Nowheree in the
Constitution are you guaranteed no consequences for your free speech.
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What a bizarre concept. You have a right to be put in prison for free speech, but you have free speech? Under your theory a person as a right to commit murder, but there can be consequences?
 
rocket88 said:
Right, that's the point. You have no freedom from consequences.
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The business has the right to freedom of speech too and they can express it by firing a person. That does not mean that the government should haul people off to jail over it. Normative pressures work better than government regulations.
 
MaggieD said:
Yes, I would say they are. The right to freedom of speech simply means that our government can't persecute us or abridge that right. It's not referring to a private citizen. You don't have some pure, unadulterated "right" to free speech.

You don't have freedom of speech here. You don't have it at work. You don't have it on private property. Freedom of speech means freedom from government intervention for exercising your right to free speech. Vito Corleone may take exception to your right at any time.
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Public school is government.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Wow - criminalizing words.
That's so - so - communistic.

But schools have always treated them AS curse words - if they wrote '**** you, you ****ing ****hole ****face ****licker' they'd get in trouble too - what they said wasn't the only issue being addressed.

So really - what people are wanting is for peopel to consider racial epithets to be like curse words.
Well - they are, really. The majority of people don't go around saying them :shrug: they're bleeped out and censored more than curse words are, really.
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Yeah, tell that to people who think its cool to go around saying, "White Boi"

While I can't even call a 6 year old black kid boy without being racist.....
 
Fisher said:
The business has the right to freedom of speech too and they can express it by firing a person. That does not mean that the government should haul people off to jail over it. Normative pressures work better than government regulations.
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I never said the government should, but societal pressure is something else altogether.
 
joko104 said:
Public school is government.
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I think the point is that the athletes signed an agreement that they wouldn't do these things. My friend's wife is a public school teacher, and we couldn't have our fantasy football draft at his house because she had signed a "personal conduct agreement" that extended to anybody in her house.

The Constitution does not guarantee a person's right to play on a football team. That is a priviledge that can be taken because of a person's behavior.
 
Caine said:
Yeah, tell that to people who think its cool to go around saying, "White Boi"

While I can't even call a 6 year old black kid boy without being racist.....
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It's so hard being a white male conservative what with everybody being out to get you.
 
rocket88 said:
It's so hard being a white male conservative what with everybody being out to get you.
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I fail to see where I claimed I was a conservative.....

My lean describes me as a Libertarian.

I reckon since I don't like being forced to be "Politically Correct" and I don't like the fact that people go out of their way and make a living out of finding new ways to be offended by someone that automatically makes me conservative...

Whoda thunk it.
 
Krystov said:
The reason I said "directly affecting someone" is because this happened to me once. I had a crazy ex girlfriend who I broke up with and she decided to try and defame me by creating a fake website with all sorts of disgusting and untrue things on it about me. I had to use my school resource officer to get her to take it down, since it was in fact illegal.
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I had a similar experience. When I was in high school, this kid who was bullying me made a website (outside of school, on his own time) devoted to harassing me and spreading rumors about me. Fortunately my school got involved when they found out about it, and helped me get it taken down.
 
Kandahar said:
Because bullying other students affects their ability to learn.



Because stuff that students do off-campus can impact their own or other students' ability to learn.
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No not necessarily, its the bullied students choice whether it affect there ability to learn in school, because it didn't happen in school. If it happened in school the bullies are directly impacting the students ability to learn, otherwise no.
 
celticwar17 said:
No not necessarily, its the bullied students choice whether it affect there ability to learn in school, because it didn't happen in school. If it happened in school the bullies are directly impacting the students ability to learn, otherwise no.
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If you think that it's a "choice" whether being treated that way affects one's cognitive abilities (and why would anyone choose to be negatively affected if it's that simple?), then you must be very fortunate to have lived a conflict-free life. Not everyone is so lucky.
 
rocket88 said:
Physical violence aside, the real point here is that some people want to say racist things and hide behind the First Amendment when they get callled on it. If someone works in a retail environment and they insult the customers, they get fired, right? But don't they have the right to free speech?
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being fired by your employer is not state action unless you are actually a public employee. what would be first amendment issues is if you are arrested for saying something or denied government services.
 
NO!!!

1) 1st amendment
2) give govt an inch, they take a mile, don't give the inch
3) thought police
4) Orwellian societies do that

Why 'hate' speech and crimes should be legalized... It's a Fed scam
 
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Kandahar said:
joko104 said:
When did statutory mandatory school attendance by children become statutory mandatory whole-life political correctness by children?
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I hardly think telling students not to go around saying the N-word qualifies as "mandatory whole-life political correctness," but to each his own. :roll:
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You've established a precedent. Where's the line? Where does it stop?
 
Kandahar said:
joko104 said:
When did statutory mandatory school attendance by children become statutory mandatory whole-life political correctness by children?
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I hardly think telling students not to go around saying the N-word qualifies as "mandatory whole-life political correctness," but to each his own. :roll:
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It certainly does, if the school's claimed authority to tell a student what he may or may not say extends to the student's own time, outside of school hours and away from school property.

It's only a very, very small step between telling a student he may not use the N-word, and telling him what political or religious beliefs he is not allowed to express.

Those on the left have a pretty solidly-established history of trying to suppress the expression of beliefs and opinions that they find disagreeable. To allow schools the authority that you advocate amounts to openly inviting abuse of that authority.
 
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I dunno, where I was in Chicago, if every kid that used the "N" word was put off sports teams or out of school, the areas schools would lose 80% of their students - and those remaining would be 95% white.

I can honestly say that among blue collar type people, none used more racist slur language than African-Americans. About everyone. Every race. Some incessantly.
 
Not only no, but hell no. Yes they are inconsiderate and ignorant trains of thought, but the SCOTUS has deemed that the Unites States Constitution has limited hate speech to only certain utterances that incite riot and/or violence. This, as much as I dislike it, gives groups like the KKK, the Nazi Party, and the Black Panthers alike all certain rights to profess what they believe without the fear of executive reprisal, which is fundamental to preserving everyone's freedom.
 
Fisher said:
Freedom of speech is Freedom of Speech. You will never get me to create an exception.
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While, technically, we still have freedom of speech, section 1021 of the NDAA dictates that if you say something, anything, that the government construes to mean that you "aid or support" (definition unclear) "directly or indirectly" (definition unclear) "associated forces" (definition not given), you can be arrested, and detained indefinitely without charges or due process and no attorney. No 3 phone calls. This is what happens when the media does not report important issues, and the few who do know what's going on who try to let everyone know so we can stop it, are labeled conspiracy theorists.
 
sKiTzo said:
While, technically, we still have freedom of speech, section 1021 of the NDAA dictates that if you say something, anything, that the government construes to mean that you "aid or support" (definition unclear) "directly or indirectly" (definition unclear) "associated forces" (definition not given), you can be arrested, and detained indefinitely without charges or due process and no attorney. No 3 phone calls. This is what happens when the media does not report important issues, and the few who do know what's going on who try to let everyone know so we can stop it, are labeled conspiracy theorists.
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I didn't vote for it and do not support it. I support free speech. I believe those idiots have the right to protest at funerals and I believe the friends and relatives of the fallen have the right to get in their face and tell them where they can stick their signs where paper cuts would be so much fun. I believe that the KKK has the right to march and folks have the right to get up in their face and curse them like they have never been cursed at before.
 
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