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Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

Do you support this Gas price idea?


  • Total voters
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274ina

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Issue each citizen a card good for there share of domestic gas. (unleaded, diesel, premium) Current gas card holders would use there current cards.


Domestic gas is local price only, taxed 25% of present tax and priced at low USA price. It cant be sold overseas so the price will remain low. Other restrictions might be needed, that’s for the experts to figure out.

Imported gas is dyed and taxed $4.00 a gallon added to WORLD price.

This way those of us that conserve and help America do not pay for the moron with a hummer that enjoys bowing to Arabs.

You are free to trade your domestic gas points to other card holders. (hence a great $ boost to those with scooters and electric cars)

The infrastructure is there. The old regular – unleaded split. So there is no big investment needed.
 
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No, never. Americans should not "share" and be forced to ration, we're not that kind of country and never should be. You want gas prices to normalize, get rid of inefficient and overreaching laws and regulations between the states and federal and create a normal market.
 
No, never. Americans should not "share" and be forced to ration, we're not that kind of country and never should be. You want gas prices to normalize, get rid of inefficient and overreaching laws and regulations between the states and federal and create a normal market.

Funny, thats that same thing GOP like you say about healthcare......

So I will restate the same old arguments.

If you cant afford it, thats not our problem.........Lets see, $4 tax added to $5 gas....thats $9 gal to fill your hummer after you use up all your USA gas the first week.

I know you hate sharing, it hurts your profits, as does a person like me useing 5gal of gas per MONTH.
 
Issue each citizen a card good for there share of domestic gas. (unleaded, diesel, premium) Current gas card holders would use there current cards.

Domestic gas is local price only, taxed 25% of present tax and priced at low USA price. It cant be sold overseas so the price will remain low. Other restrictions might be needed, that’s for the experts to figure out.

Imported gas is dyed and taxed $4.00 a gallon added to WORLD price.

This way those of us that conserve and help America do not pay for the moron with a hummer that enjoys bowing to Arabs.

You are free to trade your domestic gas points to other card holders. (hence a great $ boost to those with scooters and electric cars)

The infrastructure is there. The old regular – unleaded split. So there is no big investment needed.

My thoughts are that Federal taxes should be gradually raised over a period of years to the point where (if this had been done in previous years at the current cost of gas) today's price would be $7 a gallon. People would be buying cars that get great mileage and clamoring for car manufacturers to improve efficiency.

And. I wouldn't have to guess whether the aisle behind me was clear as I tried to see around the big, honkin' SUV sitting next to me.
 
My thoughts are that Federal taxes should be gradually raised over a period of years to the point where (if this had been done in previous years at the current cost of gas) today's price would be $7 a gallon. People would be buying cars that get great mileage and clamoring for car manufacturers to improve efficiency.

And. I wouldn't have to guess whether the aisle behind me was clear as I tried to see around the big, honkin' SUV sitting next to me.

Trouble is that still ties USA to volitile world price for oil. My plan would have stable USA only prices for gas for most people.
This way, they can get to work, and not be subject to OPEC and war price spikes. Only the Hummer owner would get nailed by Iran troubles etc.
 
Issue each citizen a card good for there share of domestic gas. (unleaded, diesel, premium) Current gas card holders would use there current cards.


Domestic gas is local price only, taxed 25% of present tax and priced at low USA price. It cant be sold overseas so the price will remain low. Other restrictions might be needed, that’s for the experts to figure out.

Imported gas is dyed and taxed $4.00 a gallon added to WORLD price.

This way those of us that conserve and help America do not pay for the moron with a hummer that enjoys bowing to Arabs.

You are free to trade your domestic gas points to other card holders. (hence a great $ boost to those with scooters and electric cars)

The infrastructure is there. The old regular – unleaded split. So there is no big investment needed.

This really won't work. There is no reason to favor US oil over foreign oil...it's all the same stuff. If this plan were implemented, you might succeed in diverting all the US oil to be used in the US, but really what would be the point of that? Both the US and foreign oil would still be used by consumers, and the producers of both would earn roughly the same amount of profit (sans differences in shipping costs). All that would change is that they'd just ship the foreign oil to some other country instead of the US. And since there isn't enough US-produced oil to meet 100% of the US demand, it would just cause the price of gas to go up. And although I support a gas tax, this is a needlessly complicated and protectionist scheme.

As for the "moron with a hummer that enjoys bowing to Arabs"...I should note that our largest supplier of foreign oil is Canada, which accounts for more oil imports than all the Middle Eastern countries combined.
 
My thoughts are that Federal taxes should be gradually raised over a period of years to the point where (if this had been done in previous years at the current cost of gas) today's price would be $7 a gallon. People would be buying cars that get great mileage and clamoring for car manufacturers to improve efficiency.

And. I wouldn't have to guess whether the aisle behind me was clear as I tried to see around the big, honkin' SUV sitting next to me.

John Anderson proposed that in the 80's and people thought he was crazy and wanted to hang him. Not so crazy after all.
 
What would the implications be on our trading partners if we nationalized our oil in this manner and put a tariff so outrageous on theirs that it was a de facto embargo?

What would the economic consequences be for the low-income Americans who can't afford a more fuel-efficient vehicle right now?

Gas prices don't need to be "controlled," because that often times ends up with some sort of subsidy, which is just an act of hiding from consumers the true cost of the commodity they're purchasing. Asking them to pay a dollar from their wallet while sneaking two more from their back pocket at the same time. Gas prices just need to accurately reflect the world's supply and demand. This is achieved by getting government to stop ****ing with the market.
 
What would the implications be on our trading partners if we nationalized our oil in this manner and put a tariff so outrageous on theirs that it was a de facto embargo?

What would the economic consequences be for the low-income Americans who can't afford a more fuel-efficient vehicle right now?

Gas prices don't need to be "controlled," because that often times ends up with some sort of subsidy, which is just an act of hiding from consumers the true cost of the commodity they're purchasing. Asking them to pay a dollar from their wallet while sneaking two more from their back pocket at the same time. Gas prices just need to accurately reflect the world's supply and demand. This is achieved by getting government to stop ****ing with the market.

its not a tarriff, its a tax the same as the UE has......

Low income would benefit greatly by low (USA only price) gas prices. Even if they cant afford a $700 China scooter.

World market IS THE PROBLEM. Time USA cuts off the problem.
 
its not a tarriff, its a tax the same as the UE has......

Low income would benefit greatly by low (USA only price) gas prices. Even if they cant afford a $700 China scooter.

World market IS THE PROBLEM. Time USA cuts off the problem.

You didn't address my questions at all. What would that do to our trading status with a large number of other countries? What in your scenario causes gas prices to be low? "USA only price gas prices" doesn't help anyone understand what you think causes prices to be low in your scenario. It's just a supply restriction and consumption cap. That makes lives of ordinary Americans much more difficult logistically and thus economically, and puts upward pressure on prices, as far as I can see.

I'm sure that whatever the case, there would be some eventual upsides in some respects if we implemented it (although I voted No). My argument though is just that I don't think you're representing the reality of your scenario very well. I.e. you are ignoring or denying many the implications (some of which would be profound).
 
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This really won't work. There is no reason to favor US oil over foreign oil...it's all the same stuff. If this plan were implemented, you might succeed in diverting all the US oil to be used in the US, but really what would be the point of that? Both the US and foreign oil would still be used by consumers, and the producers of both would earn roughly the same amount of profit (sans differences in shipping costs). All that would change is that they'd just ship the foreign oil to some other country instead of the US. And since there isn't enough US-produced oil to meet 100% of the US demand, it would just cause the price of gas to go up. And although I support a gas tax, this is a needlessly complicated and protectionist scheme.

As for the "moron with a hummer that enjoys bowing to Arabs"...I should note that our largest supplier of foreign oil is Canada, which accounts for more oil imports than all the Middle Eastern countries combined.

Your not getting it.

its NOT the same stuff. It has two SEPERATE markets and is taxed at two massivly different rates.
Shipping the oil we use now to other places IS THE POINT. We dont need it and dont want to pay for it.

As for the high consumption gas users, they would pay a high price. NOT subsidzed by the poor that only use there USA gas share.

And remember price of gas is two seperate prices. Say $1 gal domestic gas, and $9 gal imported gas.

protection ism is what keeps US CITIZENS from eating rat meat and rice every day...........
 
Your not getting it.

its NOT the same stuff. It has two SEPERATE markets and is taxed at two massivly different rates.
Shipping the oil we use now to other places IS THE POINT. We dont need it and dont want to pay for it.

As for the high consumption gas users, they would pay a high price. NOT subsidzed by the poor that only use there USA gas share.

And remember price of gas is two seperate prices. Say $1 gal domestic gas, and $9 gal imported gas.

protection ism is what keeps US CITIZENS from eating rat meat and rice every day...........

You've gone off the deep end. I have no idea what reality you're operating in. It's too nonsensical to even follow. Especially the bold.
 
You didn't address my questions at all. What would that do to our trading status with a large number of other countries? What in your scenario causes gas prices to be low? "USA only price gas prices" doesn't help anyone understand what you think causes prices to be low in your scenario. It's just a supply restriction and consumption cap. That makes lives of ordinary Americans much more difficult logistically and thus economically, and puts upward pressure on prices, as far as I can see.

I'm sure that whatever the case, there would be some eventual upsides in some respects if we implemented it (although I voted No). My argument though is just that I don't think you're representing the reality of your scenario very well. I.e. you are ignoring or denying many the implications (some of which would be profound).

I dont give a damb about "trading partners" or any of that WTO crap. I would kill them al l if I could. NOT TRADING is the POINT.

The price would be low because we would not allow it to be sold to those that will pay a higher price. (ie those that manipulate currencys etc)

There is no supply restriction or cap on consumption, you can buy all you want, but the high consumer must PAY for it. The low consumer pays a low affordable price.
 
You've gone off the deep end. I have no idea what reality you're operating in. It's too nonsensical to even follow. Especially the bold.

Deep end?

Here is REALITY for you.....................

Bain Buys American Co Outsources Jobs, Flys Chinese flag | All Things Democrat

All becasue of your "trading partners" worries.

you love the CHINAMAN, you f*** go live with him.

And if you cant understand different priceing, then go buy some imported ethanal, and see what you pay for it! LOL
(it has massive taxes etc added to it to protect USA corn producers- what I am proposing here is the same thing)
 
I dont give a damb about "trading partners" or any of that WTO crap. I would kill them al l if I could. NOT TRADING is the POINT.

Then THIS attitude is what you're really asking people if they agree with, underneath it all. You're asking them if they think this attitude about foreign trade makes sense for the US to adopt. Outright protectionism, to hell with all other nations? Yeah we'll see how many people you can rally to go along with that idea...

There is no supply restriction or cap on consumption, you can buy all you want, but the high consumer must PAY for it. The low consumer pays a low affordable price.

You didn't address Kandahar's comments either, now that I think about it. Take another look:

Kandahar said:
And since there isn't enough US-produced oil to meet 100% of the US demand, it would just cause the price of gas to go up.

And not just the price of gas, but the price of all goods and services that require gas engines to do or move things.
 
Your not getting it.

its NOT the same stuff. It has two SEPERATE markets and is taxed at two massivly different rates.
Shipping the oil we use now to other places IS THE POINT. We dont need it and dont want to pay for it.

Well actually we DO need it, since the production capacity of the US is less than 100% of the oil it needs...but I'm more interested in that second part. Why don't we want to pay for it? What's wrong with it?

As for the high consumption gas users, they would pay a high price. NOT subsidzed by the poor that only use there USA gas share.

I agree they should pay a higher price...they should pay the cost of the extra gas they use, plus a gas tax. What makes this complicated scheme of tariffs, subsidies, and gas cards superior to a simple $1 per gallon (or however much) gas tax?

And remember price of gas is two seperate prices. Say $1 gal domestic gas, and $9 gal imported gas.

That would result in a massive shortage of affordable gasoline. What would happen is that people would hoard as much $1 gas as they could...and those with the means would quickly buy it up at bargain-basement prices and sell it abroad for the real price. Essentially, everyone would be paying $9 a gallon for their gas except for the few lucky people who were able to get their hands on the $1 gas before it was all gone.

protection ism is what keeps US CITIZENS from eating rat meat and rice every day...........

Yeah...I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't studied much economics.
 
I don't think it would get passed by the best Congressmen that money can buy. The largest energy companies control those Congressmen and that would be Exxon/Mobil, Chevron, BP, Shell, Total, Electric utilities, Natural Gas Utilities, nuke Utilities, etc., with the largest pocketbooks. Why do you suppose wars are where OIL is? Did you organize to get our Nation involved? Who/what pushes those wars? Who is the largest consumer of energy in the world? Pentagon! So, wars consume energy at a profit to the large energy corporations, and then the large energy corporations get to distribute and profit from the energy removed from the countries we took war to. Who'd a thunk it, eh! Feel sumpin' slippin'?
 
Funny, thats that same thing GOP like you say about healthcare......
Doesn't matter who says that, it's the truth.

So I will restate the same old arguments.

If you cant afford it, thats not our problem.........Lets see, $4 tax added to $5 gas....thats $9 gal to fill your hummer after you use up all your USA gas the first week.
You are advocating a rationing card, this has nothing to do whatsoever with "affording it". You are advocating market controls, which never work economically, I'll give you a for instance, people who have travel heavy jobs would be limited to the same allotment as the little old lady who goes grocery shopping once a week and church on sundays. What will a commuter do when their allotment runs out? Can you answer that? And what economic fallout do you expect in the aggregate if your numbers bear out to lost production?

I know you hate sharing, it hurts your profits, as does a person like me useing 5gal of gas per MONTH.
You are dangerously close to being insulting here. First, business exists for profit, "sharing" isn't a viable economic system which is why communism never quite gets off the ground. Markets tend to like it when a supply and demand curve is based upon equitable value, production, and trade.
 
Well actually we DO need it, since the production capacity of the US is less than 100% of the oil it needs...but I'm more interested in that second part. Why don't we want to pay for it? What's wrong with it?



2: I agree they should pay a higher price...they should pay the cost of the extra gas they use, plus a gas tax. What makes this complicated scheme of tariffs, subsidies, and gas cards superior to a simple $1 per gallon (or however much) gas tax?



That would result in a massive shortage of affordable gasoline. What would happen is that people would hoard as much $1 gas as they could...and those with the means would quickly buy it up at bargain-basement prices and sell it abroad for the real price. Essentially, everyone would be paying $9 a gallon for their gas except for the few lucky people who were able to get their hands on the $1 gas before it was all gone.



Yeah...I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't studied much economics.


2: its better becasue a $1 gas tax does nothing to remove US prices from world prices.

3: How can you hord somthing that is already limited? I said USA share of gas. If you are allowed to buy 100 gal gas, 40 diesel, 10 premium, month, then they can keep the points, use them, or sell them to high gas consumers.
Actual gas is not effected. its only "points" that is effected.
Low gas users will use the little gas they need, and sell the points to high gas consumers.
High consumers will get by useing USA share, buying a few points as needed, and if they REALLY use lots of gas, then be forced to buy imported gas.

Yes I have studied ecomonics. Lots since "free trade" has F**** me out of a life now.

Read "free trade doesnt work" and learn..........along with "when the wolf finallly came"

I dont "compete" with slaves. I kill slaves or shut them out. You will also note USA has been protectionist for 95% of its history........
 
My thoughts are that Federal taxes should be gradually raised over a period of years to the point where (if this had been done in previous years at the current cost of gas) today's price would be $7 a gallon. People would be buying cars that get great mileage and clamoring for car manufacturers to improve efficiency.

And. I wouldn't have to guess whether the aisle behind me was clear as I tried to see around the big, honkin' SUV sitting next to me.
Mags, the first 40% of every dollar of gas sold goes to federal taxation, the second to last 8% goes to the companies supplying and the last 8 goes to the sellers. The reason a lot of chotchkies, junk food, vehicle services and other items are sold at gas stations is that they are higher profit items. Just petroleum product sales is a net loser. How much more does the government deserve for doing all of the regulating and none of the work?
 
2: its better becasue a $1 gas tax does nothing to remove US prices from world prices.

That's what I'm asking. Why do we want to remove US prices from world prices in the first place? Why is this whole goal a good thing? What does it accomplish?

3: How can you hord somthing that is already limited? I said USA share of gas. If you are allowed to buy 100 gal gas, 40 diesel, 10 premium, month, then they can keep the points, use them, or sell them to high gas consumers.

It's quite simple: I buy my share of $1 gas. Then I go find someone who doesn't drive and buy their share of gas. Then I do that with a couple million different people, take the gas to Canada, and sell it at the REAL price. A risk-free profit...and if I can think of that scheme in 30 seconds, you can bet that there will be large businesses that spring up doing exactly that.

Actual gas is not effected. its only "points" that is effected.
Low gas users will use the little gas they need, and sell the points to high gas consumers.

In other words, it will function exactly like a market? And they can sell these points for whatever price they want? How is that any different than just selling a gallon of gas for whatever price they want? What does the introduction of the "point system" accomplish?

High consumers will get by useing USA share, buying a few points as needed, and if they REALLY use lots of gas, then be forced to buy imported gas.

The US produces about 5.7 million barrels of oil per day, and consumes about 18.9 million barrels per day. In other words, even if all US-produced oil was consumed in the US, it would only be about 30% of our total demand. The other 70% would be taxed at your insane $9 per gallon rate.

And remind me again, what exactly is the point of making sure US-produced oil stays in the US, and foreign-produced oil stays out? :confused:

Yes I have studied ecomonics. Lots since "free trade" has F**** me out of a life now.

Read "free trade doesnt work" and learn..........along with "when the wolf finallly came"

I dont "compete" with slaves. I kill slaves or shut them out. You will also note USA has been protectionist for 95% of its history........

So oil workers in foreign countries are slaves? What? :confused:
Are you aware that oil is one of the most capital-intensive (i.e. least dependent on labor costs) industries in the world? Since labor costs are practically IRRELEVANT to the oil trade, you don't need to worry competing against "slaves" or anyone else. Furthermore, it's not like US oil is just sitting unused because no one will buy it...virtually ALL oil produced is sold.
 
Doesn't matter who says that, it's the truth.

You are advocating a rationing card, this has nothing to do whatsoever with "affording it". You are advocating market controls, which never work economically, I'll give you a for instance, people who have travel heavy jobs would be limited to the same allotment as the little old lady who goes grocery shopping once a week and church on sundays. What will a commuter do when their allotment runs out? Can you answer that? And what economic fallout do you expect in the aggregate if your numbers bear out to lost production?

You are dangerously close to being insulting here. First, business exists for profit, "sharing" isn't a viable economic system which is why communism never quite gets off the ground. Markets tend to like it when a supply and demand curve is based upon equitable value, production, and trade.

rationing worked just fine in WW2. And its not a ration card, you can buy all you want.

market controls are for all things........and they work fine too. Your "free Trrade" does not exist except for illegal things.

Those with travel heavy jobs would have gas paid by the employer. I am only talking personal consumption.

Those that use lots of gas would pay more over all, and those that conserve would get more cash from high gas users. Dont like it? To bad.
THose that use lots can buy all they want, use there allowed amount, then buy others points, then buy world priced gas to no limit.

Sharing works. it just hurts profits. Kind of like 50 people paying $1 month using one internet connection for $50 month. Instead of 50 people paying $40 month LMAO!
Communism works great, its called the Library, roads, Firemen, police..........etc etc etc
 
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Human nature seem to be to complain about things you do not want to spend your money on when prices rise but barely utter a peep when price rise on things we want. Milk or gas up 25%, someone has to do something about these prices! Ipods or wii's up 25%, meh.

Im willing to bet that nearly all americans could cut fuel consumption down by either being more efficient with their habits (no more running up to the store for an energy drink, or a getting a pizza, ect on tuesday when they can wait until saturday when they typically go to the store) or by reducing their driving speeds. My house only puts about 2k miles a year on the car, granted I worked from home but even when I worked out of home 5k yearly was about the norm, we planned and made minimal trips into town. But people do not seem to be very willing to sacrifice anything unless forced to, instead they will expect someone else to find a solution to the problem and complain all the way.

With that said, Im just not sold onto electric cars. Everything that I have read really failed to convince me that they were any more eco friendly and less polluting then their standard counterparts when all things are considered, that leaves fuel availability and production. I would like to work away from foreign reliance of resources as much as possible and I think this is where the electric car can shine, at least for the moment....

Synthetic Fuel Made From Air and Water
An English company called Air Fuel Synthesis has begun producing gasoline (petrol) directly from air and water. Using carbon capture technology to sequester CO2 out of the atmosphere, and electrolysis to crack water into its constuituent hydrogen and oxygen, the company's process then combines the hydrogen and carbon dioxide to create synthetic gasoline or other fuels.
 
Human nature seem to be to complain about things you do not want to spend your money on when prices rise but barely utter a peep when price rise on things we want. Milk or gas up 25%, someone has to do something about these prices! Ipods or wii's up 25%, meh.

I agree with this. I think the main reason people are so outraged by gas prices as opposed to those other things is because they're constantly reminded of gas prices by giant signs on gas stations...rather than because there is anything actually outrageous about them.
 
That's what I'm asking. Why do we want to remove US prices from world prices in the first place? Why is this whole goal a good thing? What does it accomplish?
If our own industry picked up and we went into surplus we would need to go into the export market and sell. Countries in the petroleum trade would not forget the slight on their exports at that time and the protectionism would come back to bite us. This is something many protectionists don't understand that in a global market trade works both ways.



It's quite simple: I buy my share of $1 gas. Then I go find someone who doesn't drive and buy their share of gas. Then I do that with a couple million different people, take the gas to Canada, and sell it at the REAL price. A risk-free profit...and if I can think of that scheme in 30 seconds, you can bet that there will be large businesses that spring up doing exactly that.
Yep. Points systems only lead to hording and a middle man willing to sell off their own surplus, might as well just go directly to market as it's more efficient.



In other words, it will function exactly like a market? And they can sell these points for whatever price they want? How is that any different than just selling a gallon of gas for whatever price they want? What does the introduction of the "point system" accomplish?
First rule of economics, no matter the scale individuals always drive the market, there is no way to get around that dynamic. Individuals will either trade free or trade around regulations to fulfill demand.



The US produces about 5.7 million barrels of oil per day, and consumes about 18.9 million barrels per day. In other words, even if all US-produced oil was consumed in the US, it would only be about 30% of our total demand. The other 70% would be taxed at your insane $9 per gallon rate.

And remind me again, what exactly is the point of making sure US-produced oil stays in the US, and foreign-produced oil stays out? :confused:
I agree, the numbers don't line up.


So oil workers in foreign countries are slaves? What? :confused:
Are you aware that oil is one of the most capital-intensive (i.e. least dependent on labor costs) industries in the world? Since labor costs are practically IRRELEVANT to the oil trade, you don't need to worry competing against "slaves" or anyone else. Furthermore, it's not like US oil is just sitting unused because no one will buy it...virtually ALL oil produced is sold.
This last paragraph prompted me to respond. A healthy percentage of "foreign" oil workers are actually U.S. citizens, generalists tend to make 1.5-2X pay to go to other countries like S.A., U.A.E, Brazil and specialists tend to make 2-3X pay.
 
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