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Idea to control gas prices and help conversion to electric cars.

Do you support this Gas price idea?


  • Total voters
    41
Issue each citizen a card good for there share of domestic gas. (unleaded, diesel, premium) Current gas card holders would use there current cards.


Domestic gas is local price only, taxed 25% of present tax and priced at low USA price. It cant be sold overseas so the price will remain low. Other restrictions might be needed, that’s for the experts to figure out.

Imported gas is dyed and taxed $4.00 a gallon added to WORLD price.

This way those of us that conserve and help America do not pay for the moron with a hummer that enjoys bowing to Arabs.

You are free to trade your domestic gas points to other card holders. (hence a great $ boost to those with scooters and electric cars)

The infrastructure is there. The old regular – unleaded split. So there is no big investment needed.

I have a better idea lady. Drive something that dont use gas. Then you dont have a gas bill at all. Electric works well for commuting short to mid range. Then there ethanol. I like that because I can make that myself very inexpensively.
 
Your not getting it.

its NOT the same stuff. It has two SEPERATE markets and is taxed at two massivly different rates.
Shipping the oil we use now to other places IS THE POINT. We dont need it and dont want to pay for it.

As for the high consumption gas users, they would pay a high price. NOT subsidzed by the poor that only use there USA gas share.

And remember price of gas is two seperate prices. Say $1 gal domestic gas, and $9 gal imported gas.

protection ism is what keeps US CITIZENS from eating rat meat and rice every day...........

actually no protectionismis what has kept peoplepoor.look at the great depression,many argue that keynesian theories kept peoplefrom moving up,but in reality it was price fixing and tariffs which had hurt everyone,and had been shown by history to do nothing but harm since the roman empire.

for your own theories to work it would require the ending of all trade,which in result would end all us dominence and make everyone super poor.just look at the depression.,cotton and wheat prices were controlled by the govt by productionlimits.did it helpanyone with their tariffs and price controls????no it allowed russia who couldnt even feed its own people due to its own failed collectivist policies to dominate the wheat export market because they chose a free market path despite being a comunist in name only country.
 
So the speeling cop attacks the engineer.........go F**** yourself.

You want math, compare the wages of a BS "ant" in china and a USA BS holder......and guess who is working at all.......

If you're claiming to be any kind of “engineer”, then I'm calling BS on that claim. If you were intelligent and educated enough to be any kind of engineer, then you'd also be literate enough to write at better than an elementary-school level, which you very clearly and obviously are not.
 
That would be correct, were I not an advocate of progressive taxation. You seem to have gotten this whole idea that I(a socialist) want to redistribute wealth upwards, and it's just not the case. This money would go directly to the implementation of a renewables infrastructure, not to anybody's pockets. And further, using progressive taxation, only those who can afford to bear the financial burden would do so.

Only the rich would bear the burden of $8 / gallon? Consider a poor family. Say the father has a job 20 miles away, and his car gets 20 miles per gallon. So, round trip it takes him 2 gallons of gas to get to and from work. What used to cost him $8 (or about 1.5 hours of minimum wage) now costs him $16 (about 3 hours of minimum wage). That extra $8 was probably his family's budget for food that day.

Your not considering the human toll of your theories. Increased gas prices will always affect the poor much more than rich.
 
Only the rich would bear the burden of $8 / gallon? Consider a poor family. Say the father has a job 20 miles away, and his car gets 20 miles per gallon. So, round trip it takes him 2 gallons of gas to get to and from work. What used to cost him $8 (or about 1.5 hours of minimum wage) now costs him $16 (about 3 hours of minimum wage). That extra $8 was probably his family's budget for food that day.

Your not considering the human toll of your theories. Increased gas prices will always affect the poor much more than rich.

That makes a lot of sense - which is why I enjoy debating you so much - but you're missing a few pieces.

Let's take it a step further. You're a big economics guy right? Then you should understand that gas prices are rising on their own.

Let's do another logical progression:
1.) Supplies of oil are going down, while global demand is increasing.
2.) Thus, the price of oil is rising.
3.) When the price of oil rises, many people(namely the poor and middle class) will be stretched thin and loose some access to gas. The same thing works for all non-renewable energy resources.
4.) When folks loose much of their access to energy, their standard of living goes down.
5.) This will inevitabley hit folks of all incomes, forcing the development of new fuels.
6.) But the power companies will also be hit and loose access to many of their resources(funds, facilities, employees).
7.) Thus, the development of a renewables infrastructure will begin from the ground up, as opposed to being brought on my a developed economy.

This transfer will come, but the increased taxation of gas will make it much more fluid and less damaging. In order to balance the impact, a progressive system could also be put in place, providing tax write offs for those below certain incomes.

You get where I'm coming from, right?
 
That makes a lot of sense - which is why I enjoy debating you so much - but you're missing a few pieces.

Let's take it a step further. You're a big economics guy right? Then you should understand that gas prices are rising on their own.

Let's do another logical progression:
1.) Supplies of oil are going down, while global demand is increasing.
2.) Thus, the price of oil is rising.
3.) When the price of oil rises, many people(namely the poor and middle class) will be stretched thin and loose some access to gas. The same thing works for all non-renewable energy resources.
4.) When folks loose much of their access to energy, their standard of living goes down.
5.) This will inevitabley hit folks of all incomes, forcing the development of new fuels.
6.) But the power companies will also be hit and loose access to many of their resources(funds, facilities, employees).
7.) Thus, the development of a renewables infrastructure will begin from the ground up, as opposed to being brought on my a developed economy.

This transfer will come, but the increased taxation of gas will make it much more fluid and less damaging. In order to balance the impact, a progressive system could also be put in place, providing tax write offs for those below certain incomes.

You get where I'm coming from, right?

Oh yeah, I get it, you're not telling me anything I don't know. I'm not saying the price of gas is increasing because of the government. I am however combatting your notion that "high gas prices are good for the economy."

If you really want the government to pay for fancy new things like energy research, get the funding only from progressive taxes, not from artificially jacking up the cost of gas.
 
Reply to WAAS


Supply and demand, my ass. When the illustrious GWShiiteForBrains kicked off his GWBush Great Depression, energy demand dropped by about 30% and where was the commensurate drop in prices?
 
Let the market do its thing and get the central planners out of the way
 
This is, of course, the only solution that will really work.
I have told people for years, the closer the market is to the supply and demand side of the equation the more quickly and efficiently it adjusts to changes. One of the largest failings of a planned economy is that it is not equipped to deal with rapid changes, the most controlled economy still has dynamics that the best plans will not be able to account for and that is people. If a person is still hungry during a food ration program they will find someone with surplus, if a kink develops in dynamic supply items such as food staples or fuels then plans must be adjusted. In that sense a shop owner, supplier, and distributor need only look at purchasing an availability and find the price point whereas a planned economy has to play to the aggregate and hope that they didn't miss a decimal point.
 
its has to be seperate because of currency manipulation that allows the UE (for one) to buy oil cheap and screw the USA simply because of the currency ratio.

To do this, governments would have to raise the value of their currencies above their real value. Doing this, would hurt their economy far more than high oil prices.

How about you read like I have......

The wolf finally came
free trade doesnt work
The great wave
Punching out
For starters. Then you might wake up from the GOP fantasy land you live in.


Notice all those ex-middle class you ignore that are homeless........
they are the key to your and the GOP down fall.......................

Not wanting price spikes and energy shortages mean that I hate poor people? The people your policy would **** over the most are the poor.
 
Not wanting price spikes and energy shortages mean that I hate poor people? The people your policy would **** over the most are the poor.

And it's important to remember that fuel costs don't just affect personal transportation. It's not just what you will end up paying at the gas station when you fuel your car. Products of all kinds have to be transported from the farms or factories where they are produced, to the stores where they are sold. And these farms and factories have to transport materials and supplies that they need to produce these products. And farms and factories use a fair amount of energy in the core of producing whatever they produce.

When the cost of energy increases, the costs of everything increases.
 
Just let the free market decide. If people want to use gasoline, then let them. If you want an electric car then buy one.

Gas prices shouldn't be contorled by one entity(government) or entities(OPEC). A company should be able to sell gas at the price it wants. If another compnay wants to sell gas at a lower price it will create competition and force the other company to lower its prices to get more sales.
 
Issue each citizen a card good for there share of domestic gas. (unleaded, diesel, premium) Current gas card holders would use there current cards.


Domestic gas is local price only, taxed 25% of present tax and priced at low USA price. It cant be sold overseas so the price will remain low. Other restrictions might be needed, that’s for the experts to figure out.

Imported gas is dyed and taxed $4.00 a gallon added to WORLD price.

This way those of us that conserve and help America do not pay for the moron with a hummer that enjoys bowing to Arabs.

You are free to trade your domestic gas points to other card holders. (hence a great $ boost to those with scooters and electric cars)

The infrastructure is there. The old regular – unleaded split. So there is no big investment needed.

I think this exposes a misunderstanding about the global oil industry and how it affects global security. Some things to consider:

  • Our own prosperity is inextricably linked to world prosperity.
  • World prosperity is inextricably linked to a stable global supply of oil.
  • We get most of our foreign oil from Canada.
  • We don't want M.E. oil nations holding the rest of the world hostage for the oil that they supply to them. (Do we want other nations in the world paying more attention to what we want, or paying more attention to what Arabs want?)
  • We don't want the nations of the world to be considering whether to conquer the M.E. in order to secure their own supply of oil. Making sure that M.E. oil reaches the global marketplace does that, and it does it in a very market oriented manner.
  • Therefore, we have a profound interest in maintaining stability in the flow of oil from the M.E., regardless as to whether the oil we ourselves buy comes from there or not.

The economic and political realities aren't tidy and they don't lend themselves to simple idealistic principles or solutions. WWI could be considered the first oil war, and WWII was simply a follow on to that first war. The U.S. withdrawing from our role in the M.E. would be to invite military solutions to allocation of a profoundly important resource. The human misery that would likely result from disengagement far outweighs whatever miseries we have encountered as a result of our involvement, as demonstrated by an understanding of history.

Given such, the characterization that we 'bow' to Arabs is just silly. We do not 'bow' to Arabs. There is sometimes a contest of wills, certainly, but we hold our own handily in this game on the board that is set before us.
 
The solution to this "problem" lies in the past.
And learning from our elders !
From the past events we must learn.
Both whale oil and petroleum are finite in their quantities.
Imagine how expensive whale oil must have been at the "end".
Petroleum will be the same way when its time comes.
Of course, back then, the people (the masses) were not that dependent on whale oil...I think that it was always a luxury.
With the dependency the masses have on oil - problems arise when the supply runs low, as it seems to be.
I believe that it is our governments responsibility to assure a constant supply of low lost energy.
This is where I break from the Libertarians and Conservatives....
We must have a national energy plan - decisions must be made..
Diesel oil to replace gasoline
natural gas to replace fuel oil for heating
Nuclear to replace oil for electricity......
solar and wind to supplement
conservation
Maybe we need to bring some Europeans over here to show us how to do these things!
 
Just let the free market decide. If people want to use gasoline, then let them. If you want an electric car then buy one.

Gas prices shouldn't be controlled by one entity(government) or entities(OPEC). A company should be able to sell gas at the price it wants. If another company wants to sell gas at a lower price it will create competition and force the other company to lower its prices to get more sales.


And, in the meantime, the price of petroleum continues to rise.
But I do agree that our government must maintain a hands-off approach to an extent....
This(oil shortages) is becoming a serious problem, beyond the ability of the people to solve.
It must be solved by government.
Why - the vested interest of the "markets" is to earn money.
The vested interest of "government" must be the welfare of the people.
One cannot do the others job and vice-versa......but they can and should work together in a common goal.
 
Let's copy the German solution. Huge industrial base and they are shutting down "nukes" and installing huge wind and solar. If Germany can do it, we can. I think the Centralized Distribution of Energy Grid is the problem, not the solution. It represents old line monopoly politics running our country. Why do you think we have OIL wars? Did you vote for one? Did you choose to send one of your sons over to help out Big OIL? Wars run on energy and make big energy, big money, and then they profit from the spoils of the wars, OIL, by bringing it into their Distribution Network. That is the problem. If you're an OILman, it is only good sense to gin up more wars in OIL countries. Start by buying your influential politicians to organize your legislative activities and buy some media to demonize those no-good scumbags sitting on your OIL under their dirty ol' homelands. At the same time invest in defense corporation stocks because the wars will make them money also. Remember, wars run on energy and the Pentagon is the largest purchaser of energy in the world. Get your war on, it's good for business.
 
And it's important to remember that fuel costs don't just affect personal transportation. It's not just what you will end up paying at the gas station when you fuel your car. Products of all kinds have to be transported from the farms or factories where they are produced, to the stores where they are sold. And these farms and factories have to transport materials and supplies that they need to produce these products. And farms and factories use a fair amount of energy in the core of producing whatever they produce.

When the cost of energy increases, the costs of everything increases.

Or they're just not shipped at all. This plan would create massive shortages of gasoline, at least initially.
 
The solution to this "problem" lies in the past.
And learning from our elders !
From the past events we must learn.
Both whale oil and petroleum are finite in their quantities.
Imagine how expensive whale oil must have been at the "end".
Petroleum will be the same way when its time comes.
Of course, back then, the people (the masses) were not that dependent on whale oil...I think that it was always a luxury.
With the dependency the masses have on oil - problems arise when the supply runs low, as it seems to be.
I believe that it is our governments responsibility to assure a constant supply of low lost energy.
This is where I break from the Libertarians and Conservatives....
We must have a national energy plan - decisions must be made..
Diesel oil to replace gasoline
natural gas to replace fuel oil for heating
Nuclear to replace oil for electricity......
solar and wind to supplement
conservation
Maybe we need to bring some Europeans over here to show us how to do these things!

those are all great ideas!

...but can you honestly say the Government can do it better than Entrepreneurs?
 
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