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Should the country pay for women's contraceptives?

Should the country (taxes) pay for women's contraception?

  • Yes

    Votes: 41 41.8%

  • No

    Votes: 57 58.2%
  • Total voters
    98
Cephus said:
The planet is already overpopulated, we don't need to be having more children, we need to stop the poor from having so many.
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Far too many people don't even apply logic as simple as the inability to support x children implies inability to support x+1 children.
 
Mathematician said:
Far too many people don't even apply logic as simple as the inability to support x children implies inability to support x+1 children.
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You have to remember, these people don't care if they can support their kids. They don't care if they can support themselves. They expect someone else to pick up all of their living expenses. Logic doesn't even enter into it.
 
Kal'Stang said:
The government pays for mens condoms. So why not womens contraceptives?
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Why shouldn't you buy the goods you want and I buy the goods I want?

Why should the taxpayer pay someone to manufacture condoms in his or her role as a taxpayer rather than as a consumer of condoms?
 
H. Lee White said:
No one should ever pay for goods and/or services they did not receive.
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Whatever happened to compassion for our fellow man ( and woman) ?

No man or woman is an Island.
 
minnie616 said:
Whatever happened to compassion for our fellow man ( and woman) ?

No man or woman is an Island.
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The most compassionate thing one can do is require those around them to be responsible for themselves.
 
In the days, not all that long ago, when it never occurred to anybody that the government should make sure that men and women get free contraceptives, we had far fewer unwanted children, far fewer abortions, far fewer teenage pregnancies, far fewer children born into homes without a mom and dad living there. It was the rare child that regularly showed up at school with breakfast or lunch money, and social services quietly dealt with the few cases of child neglect. But in those days, the national psyche did not embrace a nanny state that encouraged people not to take responsibility for their own choices and actions.

I suggest we regain that national psyche.
 
AlbqOwl said:
In the days, not all that long ago, when it never occurred to anybody that the government should make sure that men and women get free contraceptives, we had far fewer unwanted children, far fewer abortions, far fewer teenage pregnancies, ...
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There have always been unwanted children, abortions, teenage pregnancies, children born into homes without a mom and dad living there.
One of the main reasons why we have more abortions, teen pregnancies etc. today then in the early days is because...

we have a higher population so numbers go up even if the rate had stayed the same.


Except the rate of abortions has been steadily declining since 1981.

Over Two Decades, Abortion Rate Dropped For Women In Their 20s Because Of Contraception Access | ThinkProgress

In fact overall Abortion Rate Drops 8% In Eight Years, but it rose 18% Among Poor Women In USA

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/226354.php

Also the rate of teenage pregnancies has fallen in recent years.


Preventing unwanted pregnancies: Forget sex ed and compare the pill to IUDs. - Slate Magazine
 
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minnie616 said:
There have always been unwanted children, abortions, teenage pregnancies, children born into homes without a mom and dad living there.
One of the main reasons why we have more abortions, teen pregnancies etc. today then in the early days is because...

we have a higher population so numbers go up even if the rate had stayed the same.


Except the rate of abortions has been steadily declining since 1981.

Over Two Decades, Abortion Rate Dropped For Women In Their 20s Because Of Contraception Access | ThinkProgress

In fact overall Abortion Rate Drops 8% In Eight Years, but it rose 18% Among Poor Women In USA

Overall Abortion Rate Drops 8% In Eight Years, Rises 18% Among Poor Women In USA

Also the rate of teenage pregnancies has fallen in recent years.


Preventing unwanted pregnancies: Forget sex ed and compare the pill to IUDs. - Slate Magazine
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By the early 1990's, the nanny state mentality was complete and has been expanding ever since.

The earlier time of which I speak is of a time not at all typical of the last 30 years.
 
AlbqOwl said:
By the early 1990's, the nanny state mentality was complete and has been expanding ever since.

The earlier time of which I speak is of a time not at all typical of the last 30 years.
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If you do NOT want a "nanny state" the best thing to do is to cut down on the number of unwanted pregnancies and the most efficient way to accomplish that is to make sure the poor have access to reliable , easy to use, birth control.

The earlier time you speak of had abortions, teen pregnancies, single parents etc.

Abortion and infantcide were practiced way back in early Greek days.

I mentioned the last 30 years because birth control has helped lower the number of unwanted pregnancies and is helping to reduce our dependance on "the nanny state".
 
minnie616 said:
If you do NOT want a "nanny state" the best thing to do is to cut down on the number of unwanted pregnancies and the most efficient way to accomplish that is to make sure the poor have access to reliable , easy to use, birth control.

The earlier time you speak of had abortions, teen pregnancies, single parents etc.

Abortion and infantcide were practiced way back in early Greek days.

I mentioned the last 30 years because birth control has helped lower the number of unwanted pregnancies and is helping to reduce our dependance on "the nanny state".
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What I bolded is the very premise of the "nanny state" term. Giving free stuff away endorses the "nanny state" ideology, not diminish it. The premise is to get people reliant upon themselves, not upon the government. Do you think it's fair that I work a living and make decent money, only to have a portion of it taken and given to someone who does nothing? I certainly don't.
 
Krystov said:
What I bolded is the very premise of the "nanny state" term. Giving free stuff away endorses the "nanny state" ideology, not diminish it. The premise is to get people reliant upon themselves, not upon the government. Do you think it's fair that I work a living and make decent money, only to have a portion of it taken and given to someone who does nothing? I certainly don't.
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Most of us work to make decent money and yes a portion of that income is taxed. I happen to be in one higher taxed brackets.
If giving free birth control to the poor helps the USA to have less unwanted children than please use some my taxes for free birth control.
I would rather there were less unwanted children in our country than more hungry unwanted, poor, children who will continue the cycle of poverty.
 
minnie616 said:
Most of us work to make decent money and yes a portion of that income is taxed. I happen to be in one higher taxed brackets.
If giving free birth control to the poor helps the USA to have less unwanted children than please use some my taxes for free birth control.
I would rather there were less unwanted children in our country than more hungry unwanted, poor, children who will continue the cycle of poverty.
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Sure, except the fact remains that it isn't the poor who are using the free contraception, they'll continue to breed uncontrollably because they're either too stupid to know better or are on the entitlement train and expect others to pay for them.
 
minnie616 said:
Most of us work to make decent money and yes a portion of that income is taxed. I happen to be in one higher taxed brackets.
If giving free birth control to the poor helps the USA to have less unwanted children than please use some my taxes for free birth control.
I would rather there were less unwanted children in our country than more hungry unwanted, poor, children who will continue the cycle of poverty.
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I'd almost rather they use my tax dollars for tube tying and vasectomies for those too incompetent to be responsible parents.
 
Cephus said:
Sure, except the fact remains that it isn't the poor who are using the free contraception, they'll continue to breed uncontrollably because they're either too stupid to know better or are on the entitlement train and expect others to pay for them.
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Except in the following project the poor did use the free contraceptives and unwanted pregnancies dropped dramatically.

<SNIP>


The project tracked more than 9,000 women in St. Louis, many of them poor or uninsured.
They were given their choice of a range of contraceptive methods at no cost — from birth control pills to goof-proof options like the IUD or a matchstick-sized implant.

When price wasn't an issue, women flocked to the most effective contraceptives — the implanted options, which typically cost hundreds of dollars up-front to insert.
These women experienced far fewer unintended pregnancies as a result,
reported Dr. Jeffrey Peipert of Washington University in St. Louis in a study published Thursday.


The effect on teen pregnancy was striking:
There were 6.3 births per 1,000 teenagers in the study. Compare that to a national rate of 34 births per 1,000 teens in 2010.

There also were substantially lower rates of abortion, when compared with women in the metro area and nationally:
4.4 to 7.5 abortions per 1,000 women in the study, compared with 13.4 to 17 abortions per 1,000 women overall in the St. Louis region,
Peipert calculated. That's lower than the national rate, too, which is almost 20 abortions per 1,000 women.
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Read more:

Study: Free birth control leads to way fewer abortions - CBS News
 
Mathematician said:
I'd almost rather they use my tax dollars for tube tying and vasectomies for those too incompetent to be responsible parents.
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If they use it for the long acting IUD's like they did in the test project the failure rate is just .03 percent. About the same failure rate for tubal ligations or vesectomies.
 
minnie616 said:
Except in the following project the poor did use the free contraceptives and unwanted pregnancies dropped dramatically.
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How about we just ask them to be responsible? Nah... never happen.
 
Cephus said:
How about we just ask them to be responsible? Nah... never happen.
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How about we help them become responsible by giving them the birth control tools they need to help get them out the cycle of poverty.

A single person may be able to able to get by (barely)on minimum wage but a woman with children cannot feed her dependants and provide daycare on a minimum wage.
 
minnie616 said:
How about we help them become responsible by giving them the birth control tools they need to help get them out the cycle of poverty.

A single person may be able to able to get by (barely)on minimum wage but a woman with children cannot feed her dependants and provide daycare on a minimum wage.
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Well here's a solution... don't HAVE children until you can afford it! That's responsibility! Don't do things that you cannot afford to do. Get an education when you have a chance. Don't get involved with drugs or gangs. Keep your legs together. Yes, that applies to both genders. Being responsible means acting responsible. It doesn't mean having a safety net so that you can still act irresponsibly, just not suffer the consequences.
 
JayDubya said:
Why shouldn't you buy the goods you want and I buy the goods I want?

Why should the taxpayer pay someone to manufacture condoms in his or her role as a taxpayer rather than as a consumer of condoms?
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The less people there are the less need for spending. Condoms and contraceptives by thier very nature = less people being born. So in the long run helping to prevent unwanted pregnancies helps you out.

Now you will no doubt dispute that but think on it before you do. How much taxes are spent on feeding people? Oh I know, many think that should be stopped also. Along with any other kind of handout. But the fact of that matter is that we ARE feeding them and that is not going to stop any time soon. If and when such a thing is stopped then you might have a valid case. But until it does its only common sense to provide ways that will help mititage how much is spent.
 
Cephus said:
Well here's a solution... don't HAVE children until you can afford it! That's responsibility! Don't do things that you cannot afford to do. Get an education when you have a chance. Don't get involved with drugs or gangs. Keep your legs together. Yes, that applies to both genders. Being responsible means acting responsible. It doesn't mean having a safety net so that you can still act irresponsibly, just not suffer the consequences.
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People are not going to stop having sex just because sometimes women become pregnant.

If we stop the unwanted pregnancies more girls/women would continue to get an education. They can learn to become responsible tax paying citizens who do not need to rely on welfare.
 
Cephus said:
Well here's a solution... don't HAVE children until you can afford it! That's responsibility! Don't do things that you cannot afford to do. Get an education when you have a chance. Don't get involved with drugs or gangs. Keep your legs together. Yes, that applies to both genders. Being responsible means acting responsible. It doesn't mean having a safety net so that you can still act irresponsibly, just not suffer the consequences.
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So you really think that thousands of years of evolutionary instinct is that easy to ignore? Tell me, do you know of even ONE person in this entire world that hasn't had sex by the time they die of natural causes?

Abstinance only education is a failure. Why continue it? What was that saying? "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." ~ Albert Einstein
 
minnie616 said:
Most of us work to make decent money and yes a portion of that income is taxed. I happen to be in one higher taxed brackets.
If giving free birth control to the poor helps the USA to have less unwanted children than please use some my taxes for free birth control.
I would rather there were less unwanted children in our country than more hungry unwanted, poor, children who will continue the cycle of poverty.
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I would rather the poor get their act together so there are less poor all together.
 
Krystov said:
I would rather the poor get their act together so there are less poor all together.
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Through out the entireity of human kinds existance has there ever ONCE been a time when there was no poor in any give society? Of course not. Know why? Because it is a physical impossibility. Particularly when capitalism is involved. By its very nature, especially when combined with the human nature of greed, there will always be those that are poor. Not every poor person is lazy or doesn't try to get out of being poor. But between Capitalism and human Greed they stand no chance.
 
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