• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Who won the VP Debate?

Who won?

  • Total voters
    109
Krystov said:
Technically, every single American is dependent upon the government, otherwise we would have no military or civil structure. Should I have some responsibility to the poor? No. There is PLENTY of work out there. People are unwilling to do the work that's available. I have no problem helping the people who are helping themselves (in moderation) but until the government filters the circumstances by which people are eligible for social programs, I will not condone paying for people who take advantage of the system.
Click to expand...

Do you have any evidence to back up those claims? There are some heavy objectivist undertones there, so I'd prefer if you could support claims like(below) before we continue.

There is PLENTY of work out there. People are unwilling to do the work that's available.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
To copy from another thread: I just watched it today and clearly Biden commanded the debate. However it was still fairly close and both of these guys are sharp as a tac. Did anyone else have the feeling that these guys knew more about what they were talking about though than their bosses or is it just me?
 
waas said:
You're correct about the first part. But the most key aspect is an equal playing field, making so that people can find a job no matter what situation they're born in to. Removing the ability for corporations to cause as much harm as they do(while giving the individual worker control over their own livelihood) is also important.

And furthermore, you wouldn't be against paying a small fraction of your to keep Americans fed, now would you? And surely you're not against something like the Civilian Conservation Corps, are you? No. Because, as Americans, we don't just abandon our fellow man. That's not who we are.
Click to expand...

Firstly, what control over their own livilihood don't workers have? They can quit whenever they want, ask for a raise, they have complete control over whether or not they work after they're hired. Are you suggesting they get to tell their employer what they make? It doesn't work that way, and layoffs, as undesireable as they are, is business. Them having to make those decisions are directly related to the amount of spending our government does because overspending (like the last 4 years) plunges economies into the gutter. They have to make those decisions to stay afloat.

To the second part, no I don't have any problem taking a small portion of my paycheck to help the absolutely needy. The amount of people on welfare has increased by 12 million over the last 4 years and even before then I had a firm belief that too many people were taking advantage of those programs. That means even more federal spending that has to be budgeted. Now, as I said I don't have a problem helping out those in need, but I do if they're in need because they're not doing anything to help themselves. Until the government figures out a better way to filter out the "true takers", I won't support any social programs of the like. Bottom line, the people who are leaching off of the system without contributing something back or trying to improve their lives, in my eyes, can rot. If they're not trying, it's their own fault they "need" anything at all. I believe they should take responsibility for those choices.
 
waas said:
Do you have any evidence to back up those claims? There are some heavy objectivist undertones there, so I'd prefer if you could support claims like(below) before we continue.



Thanks!
Click to expand...

Pick up a newspaper and look in the classifieds. The very presence of job postings proves that people aren't willing to work. Many of them are jobs that people think are below them.
 
Last edited:
JohnWOlin said:
To copy from another thread: I just watched it today and clearly Biden commanded the debate. However it was still fairly close and both of these guys are sharp as a tac. Did anyone else have the feeling that these guys knew more about what they were talking about though than their bosses or is it just me?
Click to expand...

Ryan said just about all of the same things that Romney did. They were very consistent because they actually have a plan and they both understand it. Biden on the other hand greatly outdid his boss. That said, there were many falsehoods in his statements.
 
Dion said:
Biden won this one clearly on facts, leadership and confidence.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry,but he did not win on "facts"....He was lying through his dentures on quite a few things....

One of the biggest lies was claiming he voted against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote Summary - 107th Congress, 1st Session

U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

Saying that the Administration did not know that the Embassy in Libya requested more security when in fact several requests were made and turned down.

Biden contradicts State Department on Benghazi security | The Cable

Lamb to the slaughter | The Cable

Lied about the $300 million dollar cut to embassy security that was never proposed and never implemented because the Ryan budget was NEVER enacted.


Lied about not wanting to keep troops in Iraq past the withdrawal deadline that President Bush signed.

Status of Forces Agreement News - Breaking World Status of Forces Agreement News - The New York Times

Lied about not wanting to tax people earning under $1 million....President Obama has been campaigning on raising taxes on those earning $250k and more.

Was totally wrong about Syria being 5 times as large as Libya.....Libya 1.76 million square kilometers........Syria 185,180 square kilometers.

Lied about pulling all troops out of Afghanistan in 2014.

US troops may stay in Afghanistan until 2024 - Telegraph



Biden was not only calm and stayed on facts ... he was badass!
Click to expand...

Badass?I think not....He was mearly an ass.
 
JohnWOlin said:
To copy from another thread: I just watched it today and clearly Biden commanded the debate. However it was still fairly close and both of these guys are sharp as a tac. Did anyone else have the feeling that these guys knew more about what they were talking about though than their bosses or is it just me?
Click to expand...

I agree,Biden did command the debate...But not in a positive way.
 
Strucky said:
I agree,Biden did command the debate...But not in a positive way.
Click to expand...

Let's look at it this way; Romney smashed Obama with a far different tone than he has had for at least a year; Ryan tried the same thing and Biden cut right through that bull**** like a hot knife on butter. Hopefully chiclet mouth gives ole big ears some pointers on how to act like a boss and make sure people know you're the boss.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Let's look at it this way; Romney smashed Obama with a far different tone than he has had for at least a year; Ryan tried the same thing and Biden cut right through that bull**** like a hot knife on butter. Hopefully chiclet mouth gives ole big ears some pointers on how to act like a boss and make sure people know you're the boss.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry,but I don't think Biden cut through anything...All he did was get his response on Libya in the news cycle.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Let's look at it this way; Romney smashed Obama with a far different tone than he has had for at least a year; Ryan tried the same thing and Biden cut right through that bull**** like a hot knife on butter. Hopefully chiclet mouth gives ole big ears some pointers on how to act like a boss and make sure people know you're the boss.
Click to expand...

I hope so too. Romney will surely be elected then. Biden spewed lies and inaccuracies throughout the entire debate. Another poster provided sources.
 
Krystov said:
I hope so too. Romney will surely be elected then. Biden spewed lies and inaccuracies throughout the entire debate. Another poster provided sources.
Click to expand...

The race is butthole tight right now; something I honestly couldn't fathom two months ago. Obama still leads by 6 points in averaged polling in Ohio a state that every Republican has always needed to win. Unless Romney were to tie in polling in Ohio I wouldn't even consider it a possibility that he will win.
 
Tucker Case said:
then it was an exceptionally ****ty plan on Ryan's part because that just didn't happen. You even prove that it didn't happen by having to say "Ryan wins simply by not appearing to have decidedly lost."

If Ryan really was letting Biden hang himself, then Ryan would have decidedly WON.



From what I can tell, there was very little respect for Biden before the debate. On the respect meter, we're looking at little to no change, IMO.
Click to expand...

But Ryan looks good, and Biden looks bad. Thats a win for Ryan. Consider the people who count are the undecideds. What did they see?
 
This debate will be remebered for only one thing--Bidens rude and childish behavior. His inappropriate laughing, smiling, interrupting and eye rolling will be referenced as what not to do during a televised debate for the rest of time. That makes him the loser.
 
Fletch said:
This debate will be remebered for only one thing--Bidens rude and childish behavior. His inappropriate laughing, smiling, interrupting and eye rolling will be referenced as what not to do during a televised debate for the rest of time. That makes him the loser.
Click to expand...

THIS is what I think...Gore is STILL remembered in 2000 sighing and crowding GWB. As to substance the only thing I remember is 'lockbox'...
 
jonny5 said:
But Ryan looks good, and Biden looks bad. Thats a win for Ryan. Consider the people who count are the undecideds. What did they see?
Click to expand...

I agree with you here. Biden was strong however in his discussion, however untrue it was. Ignorant voters would see him winning.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
... still waiting for an answer, ecofarm ... what did I claim Obama won ... ? Why won't you say?
Click to expand...

It seems I'm wrong about that. I thought I remembered a post by you, but searching the main Pres debate thread, I see only you giving Romney the victory.
 
Krystov said:
That link still shows Ryan winning, though by a smaller margin.
Click to expand...

It didn't when I posted it showed a Biden, 53% to Ryan, 44% lead. But being an open nonscientific online poll, it's subject to change. Which is why I said earlier that nonscientific online polls are worthless.
 
Krystov said:
I agree with you here. Biden was strong however in his discussion, however untrue it was. Ignorant voters would see him winning.
Click to expand...
I dont think I would label it ignorance. I am no fan of Biden, but I thought in certain regards, he did quite well. He was well rehearsed, well informed, he knew his positions and the positions of his opponent, and he stated those positions clearly, and forcefully. Bidens problem was his demeanor. Mocking Ryan by smiling, laughing, interrupting and rolling his eyes while Ryan spoke was juvenile, distracting and rude. Had he done this on only a handfull of occasions it might have even worked to his advantage. But Biden did it over and over and over. He did it so often, in fact, that his poor behavior became the most significant story of the entire debate. Substance-wise, it was a good debate. Stylistically, Biden came off as childish and arrogant, while Ryan came across as competant and mature. That makes Ryan the winner.
 
Fletch said:
That makes Ryan the winner.
Click to expand...
Not according to scientific polling, which I've seen 2 indicate Biden won, 1 was a statistical tie, and none showed Ryan winning.

Reuters/Ipsos (MoE 3.1):

Biden:42%
Ryan: 35%

Biden had the edge in VP debate: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters


CBS (MoE 5.0):

Biden:50%
Ryan: 31%

Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say - CBS News


CNN (MoE 5.0):

Biden:44%
Ryan: 48%

CNN Poll: Debate watchers split on who won VP debate – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Not according to scientific polling, which I've seen 2 indicate Biden won, 1 was a statistical tie, and none showed Ryan winning.

Reuters/Ipsos (MoE 3.1):

Biden:42%
Ryan: 35%

Biden had the edge in VP debate: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters


CBS (MoE 5.0):

Biden:50%
Ryan: 31%

Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say - CBS News


CNN (MoE 5.0):

Biden:44%
Ryan: 48%

CNN Poll: Debate watchers split on who won VP debate – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
Click to expand...

Employees at the venerable Gallup polling firm suggested they felt threatened by Obama campaign adviser David Axelrod when he questioned the methodology of a mid-April poll showing Mitt Romney leading the president – according to internal emails published Thursday.
That poll showed Romney leading Obama 48-43 percent.

The exchange, according to emails published by The Daily Caller, started when Axelrod sent a tweet saying the tracking poll was “saddled with some methodological problems” and directing followers to a National Journal story in which a professor suggested outdated sampling.
According to the email chain titled “Axelrod vs. Gallup,” the White House in addition asked that a Gallup staffer “come over and explain our methodology,” which was apparently perceived as a subtle threat.

A Gallup official said in an email he thought Axelrod’s pressure “sounds a little like a Godfather situation.”

Read more: Emails suggest Axelrod leaned on Gallup after unfavorable poll | Fox News
Click to expand...

This contact with Gallup was very inappropriate. I wonder how many other subtle contacts have been made with other polling services. Things that make a person go hmmmmmmmmm....
 
MaggieD said:
This contact with Gallup was very inappropriate. I wonder how many other subtle contacts have been made with other polling services. Things that make a person go hmmmmmmmmm....
Click to expand...
That doesn't indicate the polls I listed were any less veracious.

[edit: also, what contact was there with Gallup? The article states that Axelrod "tweeted" a concern about their methodology. That's not contacting them.]
 
Last edited:
solletica said:
Nothing dumb about it. Iran doesn't have any enriched uranium OR spent plutonium nuclear fuel rods--the only two weapons-grade substances that can be used for a A-bomb.

What's dumb is when right wingers try to play adult, as shown below. . .



And where/how is Iran going to get the weapons-grade material to put in the bomb?

Until then, stick w/the talking points conservatives do understand, like Obama's birth certificate, whether he's Muslim, and if he's gonna kill babies. And please don't play w/your Dad's gun. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Your message is a fail at trying to divert and at attempting to change what Biden said. Pounding his fist, he explained that even if Iran obtains sufficient atomic material it won't do them any good because they don't have a weapon to put it into. You can try to change what he said, but he furiously insisted the Iran could not use weapons grade atomic material because they don't have any weapon to put it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom