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Who won the VP Debate?

Who won?

  • Total voters
    109
Tucker Case said:
Someone is gaming the poll numbers by logging off and voting for Ryan. If you look at the actual user votes, Biden is ahead.
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But overwhelmingly divided by ideology. Some from the other side saying one or the other won, but it's pretty partisan.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Biden was being aggressive. Whether his aggressiveness was rude is subjective, in my opinion. However, I don't think that that has anything to do with what's "normal" or "strange."

I don't think Biden was rude. I think Ryan was just unprepared for such aggressiveness and that people are just calling Biden rude because Ryan couldn't come back at him.
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Whats the proper response to interruptions and laughing while you're talking?
 
Partisanship really shows in these post-debate threads. It's kinda weird.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
Ryan couldn't answer one simple tax loophole question. So yea, I vote for substance.
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you mean because the two democrats kept interrupting him?

the biggest loophole is half the country being able to engage in voting to jack up taxes they do not pay
 
Fiddytree said:
But overwhelmingly divided by ideology. Some from the other side saying one or the other won, but it's pretty partisan.
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That's part of why I think Biden won in the grand scheme of things.

Since the majority of people voted for the side they already support, indicating a close debate, that overall context matters more because it affects the small group of undecided voters the most.
 
ecofarm said:
Partisanship really shows in these post-debate threads. It's kinda weird.
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Yet the overwhelming votes for who won the Romney/Obama debate went for Romney. That one was such an obvious win for Romney that even most of the extremely partisan liberals had to admit it.
 
clownboy said:
Cheney was criticized for the same thing by pundits on both sides of the fence, though he clearly won his debate. And really, using pundits as proof of anything besides pandering is absurd. Step away from the editorialists and make up your own mind.
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No. It was nothing like this. Cheney was not close to Biden's performance last night. If he had been, you could find it in a number of places, such as YouTube.

The thing with pundits is when they criticize 'their guy". That's the point.
 
Tucker Case said:
Yet the overwhelming votes for who won the Romney/Obama debate went for Romney. That one was such an obvious win for Romney that even most of the extremely partisan liberals had to admit it.
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yep, Donna Brazille claimed Obama won as she did with Biden. That is sort of like saying Hiroshima stomped the Enola Gay
 
Tucker Case said:
Yet the overwhelming votes for who won the Romney/Obama debate went for Romney. That one was such an obvious win for Romney that even most of the extremely partisan liberals had to admit it.
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I heard a few 'qualified' wins for Obama, in a variety of vehicles. And some very half-assed admissions.
 
ecofarm said:
I heard a few 'qualified' wins for Obama, in a variety of vehicles. And some very half-assed admissions.
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That's pretty partisan. I think that TD described it well with his Hiroshima analogy. Romney just plain smoked Obama in that debate.
 
TurtleDude said:
yep, Donna Brazille claimed Obama won as she did with Biden. That is sort of like saying Hiroshima stomped the Enola Gay
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I'd give Biden the win for the reasons I described, but it's just crazy talk to claim that Obama won his debate. Great analogy, by the way. :lol:

The argument I've seen thus far for Obama winning was based on content, but as I said in one of those threads, content doesn't matter in a presidential debate. What matters is how it affects the public. The public has clearly declared Romney the winner of that debate by a huge margin.

Ironically, though, I'd say that content has more of an impact on a VP debate, since the people who are interested enough to pay attention to a VP debate seem to be more likely to be affected by content.
 
Tucker Case said:
That's pretty partisan. I think that TD described it well with his Hiroshima analogy. Romney just plain smoked Obama in that debate.
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I thought the debate was pretty 'meh' and the victory overblown. Yes, Obama was flat and lost; however, Romney didn't exactly impress me.
 
Tucker Case said:
I'd give Biden the win for the reasons I described, but it's just crazy talk to claim that Obama won his debate. Great analogy, by the way. :lol:

The argument I've seen thus far for Obama winning was based on content, but as I said in one of those threads, content doesn't matter in a presidential debate. What matters is how it affects the public. The public has clearly declared Romney the winner of that debate by a huge margin.

Ironically, though, I'd say that content has more of an impact on a VP debate, since the people who are interested enough to pay attention to a VP debate seem to be more likely to be affected by content.
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Objectively Ryan won but given the fact that the Obama campaign was hemorrhaging credibility after the ass whipping Mitt laid on Obunny you might have a point. But Ryan certainly proved he has the gravitas to be VP given the current clown in the office was not superior to him and appeared to have been engaged in some butt chugging or some reefer prior to the debate
 
Tucker Case said:
That's pretty partisan. I think that TD described it well with his Hiroshima analogy. Romney just plain smoked Obama in that debate.
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I think Obama's flatness was less detrimental than Biden's throwing his arms up and looking to God, fierce interruption, belligerence, laughing inappropriately (like he couldn't control himself until his turn), whining about "15 seconds" and flat-out calling the opponent a liar with a big 'you lie!' But Biden's flop (which should be under full-assault by the etiquette crowd) doesn't much matter so whatevs.
 
I've always been a quasi-defender of Biden, but he has squandered my good will now by tapping into one of my two knee-jerk prejudices. He was indefensibly rude. Devoid of gravitas. Clownish. I think he wasn't aware that he was on a split-screen.
 
ecofarm said:
I thought the debate was pretty 'meh' and the victory overblown. Yes, Obama was flat and lost; however, Romney didn't exactly impress me.
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Oh, as far as my personal take on Obama and Romney goes, my previous bias that they both suck remains intact. The only one of the four for whom my opinion has changed at all was Biden, because I kind of like the crafty old coot now. I think he almost played up the idea that he is a doddering old moron in order to drag Ryan down.
 
ecofarm said:
I think Obama's flatness was less detrimental than Biden's throwing his arms up and looking to God, fierce interruption, belligerence, laughing inappropriately (like he couldn't control himself until his turn), whining about "15 seconds" and flat-out calling the opponent a liar with a big 'you lie!' But Biden's flop (which should be under full-assault by the etiquette crowd) doesn't much matter so whatevs.
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See, I have a totally opposite take on that. I think Biden is a lot craftier than he's given credit for.
 
Tucker Case said:
I think Biden is a lot craftier than he's given credit for.
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I suppose I'm a bit more of a formalist in regard to the debates.

I steer away from the "he sabotaged himself to hurt the other" arguments; I think such impugns the character of the one being apologized for and is, thus, self-defeating.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I kinda figured. I hate when people do that. 49-34 sounds more like what I was anticipating. I will say that Rep Ryan had the zinger of the night when he eluded to VP Biden's propensity for stupid comments. That was hilarious.
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i'd say Ryan's most effective jab was when he pointed out that Biden had a lot of pressure to make up for the initial debate performance.

Biden also landed a blow when he revealed that Ryan wrote to him asking for stimulus money.
 
Tucker Case said:
Oh, as far as my personal take on Obama and Romney goes, my previous bias that they both suck remains intact. The only one of the four for whom my opinion has changed at all was Biden, because I kind of like the crafty old coot now. I think he almost played up the idea that he is a doddering old moron in order to drag Ryan down.
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Gosh, then his crafty plan failed...as Ryan just sat there as the only grownup at the table as he was continually interrupted, even by the mod. I kept thinking, "Hmmmm, heartbeat away from the Presidency? Yes, I can definitely see this."
 
TurtleDude said:
Objectively Ryan won but given the fact that the Obama campaign was hemorrhaging credibility after the ass whipping Mitt laid on Obunny you might have a point. But Ryan certainly proved he has the gravitas to be VP given the current clown in the office was not superior to him and appeared to have been engaged in some butt chugging or some reefer prior to the debate
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See, and I think the fact that the current clown didn't get smoked hurts Ryan immensely. I think that the current clown went overboard on the clownishness in order to expose Ryan's overall weakness.

I have to qualify that, though, since I often give people more credit than they deserve for sneakiness of that sort which I would employ if I was in their position. Even if it was accidental, though, and Biden really is that much of a clown, the results are the same. Ryan looks weak because he could not dominate a clown.
 
Tucker Case said:
See, and I think the fact that the current clown didn't get smoked hurts Ryan immensely. I think that the current clown went overboard on the clownishness in order to expose Ryan's overall weakness.

I have to qualify that, though, since I often give people more credit than they deserve for sneakiness of that sort which I would employ if I was in their position. Even if it was accidental, though, and Biden really is that much of a clown, the results are the same. Ryan looks weak because he could not dominate a clown.
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I think most people saw it as two dems vs one Republican and it was a draw. that's pretty good
 
nota bene said:
Gosh, then his crafty plan failed...as Ryan just sat there as the only grownup at the table as he was continually interrupted, even by the mod. I kept thinking, "Hmmmm, heartbeat away from the Presidency? Yes, I can definitely see this."
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See, and I thought Ryan looked weak because of it. He didn't have a commanding presence in the debate at all. If he had taken control of things more, he could have smoked Biden. Instead he came across as though he was whining about the interruptions.
 
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