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Is Homework Detention necessary?

Is homework detention necessary

  • yes

    Votes: 14 66.7%
  • no

    Votes: 7 33.3%

  • Total voters
    21
Well my job isn't modeled around the school system, so the comparison you made failed.
Sorry, homework is not equal to paid work.
Sorry, but yes it is. They're both centered around performance and evaluation. The only real difference between work and school is the former offers financial compensation for performance.

The fact is, school doesn't prepare you for the work world, beyond basic reading and math.
The fact is, yes it does. At least it does for those who take it seriously.
 
I graduated from High School with a 1.62 GPA. Only because I didn't do my homework. I aced my tests. I placed in the 95%+ on the standardized testing.

The whole idea is supposed to be about learning the material.

The very idea that there should be punishment for solely not doing homework just does not compute in my brain. Even the idea of punishing a kid for not learning something, just does not compute. As if punishing them is going to make them comply.
I had homework detention in grade school and punishment did make us comply. It also raised the standards of our school above others. I didn't like it then, but I appreciate it now. It was just one thing among many that instilled me with the understanding that low performance - even just once - is unacceptable.

/shrug
 
Why is it "ridiculous"?

Why isn't it?

You know - outside of school kids have a thing called family. Headed by parents or legal guardians . . . .and this thing called family, life and home sometimes just interfere with school things like homework. Other things like sickness and such.

Can't fault students for things that sometimes might not be their fault.
 
So identify the skills needed to prepare one for the world of work please.

School is academic. It is not about preparing someone to work. It is about teaching them the knowledge they will need to apply to their work.

They should be learning that from their parents, from internships, from apprenticeships.
 
Sorry, but yes it is. They're both centered around performance and evaluation. The only real difference between work and school is the former offers financial compensation for performance.

There are many other differences between school and work.
At work, what you are doing tends to be value added, at school (if you already know the material) it is not.
That's the whole point.

Kids who have master material, should not be force to languish with those who haven't.
You have to separate the wheat from the chaff.


The fact is, yes it does. At least it does for those who take it seriously.

Not at all.
A ridiculous amount of the prestigious high school graduates I work with, are functionally illiterate.

Work involves much more than what formal schooling can deliver and must be learned, at work.
 
Why isn't it?

You know - outside of school kids have a thing called family. Headed by parents or legal guardians . . . .and this thing called family, life and home sometimes just interfere with school things like homework. Other things like sickness and such.

Can't fault students for things that sometimes might not be their fault.

I see. So when your child is an adult with a full-time job, will he be excused from finishing a project by an expected due date because he and family and life obligations that interfered? How often will he be able to simply not perform an expected portion of his job because of family and life obligations?

I've had 3 primary "adult" jobs, and let me tell you...even the nicest manager isn't going to accept that I failed to complete a task because of a family obligation if my failure is repetitive and ongoing.
 
Why isn't it?

You know - outside of school kids have a thing called family. Headed by parents or legal guardians . . . .and this thing called family, life and home sometimes just interfere with school things like homework. Other things like sickness and such.

Can't fault students for things that sometimes might not be their fault.
Oh my God! Kids of have families? Wow. I didn't know that I had a family when I was sitting in homework detention in 8th grade finishing the homework that I hadn't done the night before! Thanks for letting me know!

Aside from the sarcasm induced by your laughable condescension, my problem with your "kids have families" defense is that it isn't compelling. Should kids be excused from doing poorly on tests because they have "families"? Probably not. However, if they're having serious issues, most schools will work something out so that the student can do their work at a different pace and not be punished. Similarly, parents can talk to teachers if an unexpected problem prevents the student from doing their work.

The fact is that when a school has high standards, students are expected to meet them. What I see in your argument and a lot of others is low standards.
 
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School is academic. It is not about preparing someone to work. It is about teaching them the knowledge they will need to apply to their work.

They should be learning that from their parents, from internships, from apprenticeships.

Internships and apprencticeships come later--after a student has learned to follow instructions (and unlike in the classroom, most bosses don't present us with a written list of daily or weekly tasks, LOL), to pay attention to details, to follow through on a commitment, to profit from errors, etc.
 
Maybe they should focus more on how the student is overall rather than the occasional missed assignment. If the child repetitively misses assignments then their grades will suffer - so focus on those . . . rather than just treating all as if they're equally on bad footing.

Our kid's school system doesn't need 'homework detention' - so obviously it's not a necessity in order to maintain a decent education.

And yes - schools cannot dictate a child's life 24/7. It's abusive of the school's position and intrusive into the child's life.
 
The bolded statement is factually untrue and has been proven so by several behavioral studies.

I'm not arguing that we have a perfect system. In fact, I've pointed out several flaws in the system in this thread.

But, and please don't take this personally, Monday morning Quarterbacks tend to know exactly zilch about how children actually learn, or what methods will work best. They also tend to adopt this attitude that if the system is so terrible, that kids shouldn't be expected to perform well and can be excused for failing to meet their obligations as students.

As much as the system needs to be revamped, parents need an attitude check. If you want your kids to learn, and they're forced to learn in a broken system, then you have an obligation as their parent to teach them how to get the most of out what's available. That doesn't mean making excuses for them to avoid their work.

I don't need to know how children learn.

I know my 4 year old knows how to spell her name, her sisters name, her mothers name, my name, her address, her phone number, can spell every state on the map, can do basic addition and subtraction.... and on.

And I used the same principles to 'teach' her as I have used to teach adults one of the most complex manufacturing machines in the world.

In the end, I am not too concerned about studies. I am concerned about my daughters being better than me. And I am concerned with my co-workers being self sustaining.

And it all comes down to the very same thing. Attention span. Ever wonder why a kid can rattle off just about every sports stat known to man but he can't do his algebra? Or he can recall every known species of dinosaur to walk the earth, yet can't read a sentence?

I'll stay the Monday morning Quarterback. You can rely on your studies. ;)
 
IMO, YES
However, I do NOT like this detention idea as it was practiced in my time.
We needed help, and recieved none.
I am reminded of that excellent movie which dealt with children serving detention , during the 70s or 80s...
Google for the name of the movie.
 
I don't need to know how children learn.

I know my 4 year old knows how to spell her name, her sisters name, her mothers name, my name, her address, her phone number, can spell every state on the map, can do basic addition and subtraction.... and on.

And I used the same principles to 'teach' her as I have used to teach adults one of the most complex manufacturing machines in the world.

In the end, I am not too concerned about studies. I am concerned about my daughters being better than me. And I am concerned with my co-workers being self sustaining.

And it all comes down to the very same thing. Attention span. Ever wonder why a kid can rattle off just about every sports stat known to man but he can't do his algebra? Or he can recall every known species of dinosaur to walk the earth, yet can't read a sentence?

I'll stay the Monday morning Quarterback. You can rely on your studies. ;)

There's a lot of ignorance in this post. That's unfortunate.
 
Maybe they should focus more on how the student is overall rather than the occasional missed assignment. If the child repetitively misses assignments then their grades will suffer - so focus on those . . . rather than just treating all as if they're equally on bad footing.

Our kid's school system doesn't need 'homework detention' - so obviously it's not a necessity in order to maintain a decent education.

And yes - schools cannot dictate a child's life 24/7. It's abusive of the school's position and intrusive into the child's life.
1. Schools can do both and many, in fact, do both. In fact, not allowing kids to miss a single assignment is only one policy out of many that seeks produce an OVERALL quality student.

2. Decent isn't good enough.

3. Could you be any more hyperbolic? Homework detention has nothing to do with "dictating a child's life 24/7" and it isn't even close to being abusive. It's incredibly problematic to think of the topic we're discussing here as anything even close to abuse. High standards aren't abuse and low standards can be what keep students from reaching their potential as adults.
 
There's a lot of ignorance in this post. That's unfortunate.

Unfortunate for whom? My daughter that is learning faster than other children her age? Or my co-workers who have learned the complex machine faster than at the OEM?

I can accept being ignorant considering the results.
 
No, of course, it's not necessarily true. I've known many, many folks who were the first in their families to finish high school, much less college, much less advanced degrees.
I have no doubt, but, not in the area I grew up in many are dead and many more still "stuck". I am one of the lucky ones I assure you

But what is true is that American students are measurably not learning what previous Americans took for granted--the "three R's." What has changed? All my life, just about everybody I ever met who finished 8th grade had these three basics down better than kids today.

Take a look at the number of "developmental" courses that colleges must offer. Why? Because the same "Not-my-little-Johnnie!" helicopter parents who demand that "accommodations" be made allow their kids to not do math homework, knowing that the kid will still be given a 50 and through other credits graduate. Then they're enraged when the kid can't take a college math course for credit, sometimes over and over, LOL.

This is a nice story, however, my involvement with school is very steep and I know what the curriculum is requiring the student to do. I cannot disagree with you more strenuously based on my experiences, observations and involvement in school education. In order to have these "accommodations", you speak of, the child must be evaluated by a school psychiatrist and must be determined to have "special educations" needs at which point an Individual Education Program(IEP) will be provided. No one can unilaterally change a child's educational program because a parent wishes it to be. You speak of pure fantasy.

I believe much of the problem is with the standardized tests and teaching to the tests.
 
But everybody does need to learn that life isn't like Burger King--you don't always get to have it your way.

My job increasingly requires bean-counting--contributions to the lords of the databases--and it's time-consumptive and sometimes dumb, particularly when I know that nobody will ever look at the beans. For example, a few months ago I had to take data from a wide variety of sources (and from more than one computer and flashdrive) and convert it all into a PDF that ran over 360 pages.

Did I gripe? Heck, yes. Did I do it? Heck, yes. I like having the lights on every day and being able to make my car payment.

Well personally I think that's the wrong approach to take and the wrong lesson to draw from homework...but then, I subscribe to the Tim Ferriss "don't let other people waste your time" school of thought. If someone is forcing me to do something that's a complete waste of time, I'll either avoid it entirely if possible or do the absolute minimum required if I can't avoid it. But I should point out that this is only for homework (or other work) that truly ARE a waste of time. If the homework can help a student understand the material better, then I completely agree that they should do it.

I'm a big fan of the 80-20 rule. 20% of your efforts will produce 80% of your results...and 80% of your efforts will produce only 20% of your results. The key is to eliminate the unproductive 80% of efforts as much as possible, because it's generally not a good use of one's time.
 
It means exactly what was written. Should I have added the word hardworking so it would have been more clear to you?

Is your position that those other than Asian's are not proficient enough to work for you?
 
The fact is, school doesn't prepare you for the work world, beyond basic reading and math.
What a load of ****. A quality school instills or helps instill the discipline, standards, reasoning skills, interpersonal skills and many other qualities necessary for the work world. In fact, the higher education you have the greater a person's document, prose and qualitative literacy tends to be - all of which are essential for surviving and thriving in the "work world." Your position is directly contradictory to what research says.
 
What a load of ****. A quality school instills or helps instill the discipline, standards, reasoning skills, interpersonal skills and many other qualities necessary for the work world. In fact, the higher education you have the greater a person's document, prose and qualitative literacy tends to be - all of which are essential for surviving and thriving in the "work world." Your position is directly contradictory to what research says.

Perhaps you are correct that that is what a "quality school" does. The problem is that that is not what most schools in the United States do. In my experience most students are still drones with no ability to think critically when they graduate...including most of the smart ones. Sure, they might know all about trigonometry and the Civil War and Newton's Laws of Motion (or they might have forgotten it the day after the test), but that's a far cry from "reasoning skills" IMO.

Harry is correct that schools rarely prepare students for the work world beyond basic reading and math. Even the stuff I learned in business school is rarely applicable to my job...let alone what I learned in high school.
 
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Perhaps you are correct that that is what a "quality school" does. The problem is that that is not what most schools in the United States do. In my experience most students are still drones with no ability to think critically when they graduate...including most of the smart ones. Sure, they might know all about trigonometry and the Civil War and Newton's Laws of Motion (or they might have forgotten it the day after the test), but that's a far cry from "reasoning skills" IMO.

Harry is correct that schools rarely prepare students for the work world beyond basic reading and math. Even the stuff I learned in business school is rarely applicable to my job...let alone what I learned in high school.
Again, what you and Harry are saying directly contradicts facts/research. As I said, the higher your education, the greater your prose, document and quantitative literacy are. For more information on what those types of literacy refer to: ETS Literacy: Literacy Types

What you, Harry and others are doing are making arguments that are based either in anomalous experiences or in complete unawareness of facts.
 
A whole bunch of fail in this thread, I'm sorry I read it. If doing just enough to get buy is what passes for education nowadays, I'll be hiring more Asians well into the future.


To an extent, I agree.
We have many with their own opinions...such as no homework and a shorter school day..
They have their legit points.
As to Asians and made in China - there is a reason for this and its much more than a wage of ten cents per hour.
 
There have been reports that homework below a certain grade level is worthless, but above a certain level it can be beneficial. How would one ever even get through a single AP English class novel if people only had to read while in class? I am a huge fan of Harkness though so I despise most of what DC has done to education and lay the blame at the feet of both sides.
 
Again, what you and Harry are saying directly contradicts facts/research. As I said, the higher your education, the greater your prose, document and quantitative literacy are. For more information on what those types of literacy refer to: ETS Literacy: Literacy Types

Well, I definitely believe you that people with higher education are better at those things than people with lesser education. The question is whether that's correlation or causation. Did the education cause people to have more skills in those areas...or are people who are already talented in those areas more likely to seek out a higher education? (Incidentally, nothing in my schooling would've led me to ask such a question in the first place. Critical thinking is largely something that people in our education system don't learn until college, if at all.)


In any case, those three areas you mentioned (prose / document / math skills) are not the same as critical thinking, or many of the other skills people will need for their lives. I agree that decent schools can do an OK job teaching things like math and language...but there are lots of other things that don't get taught.
 
If you haven't heard or don't know what Homework Detention is, it's a form of discipline that penalizes students who don't do their homework.

I've been to one school that did this, I just want to say that it was very overused and very harsh. Teachers would give you homework detention for missing ONE homework assignment. It was like being punished for missing one day of swimming class.

The schools that do this needs to get back to reality. It's okay to punish students who don't do their homework, but have to give them detention for missing one assignment just proves that you are desperate. Homework isn't really that important. At the school I'm at now, the teachers are not even uptight about such an obsessive assignment. They're not even going to ask or keep you after school.

Is homework detention necessary?

Anyone that thinks it isn't necessary is part of the problem. Education is meant to better the child's knowledge and by proxy their futures. If you, or anyone, advocates allowing them to forgo their obligations, you are essentially giving them a permission slip to fail.
 
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