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Why are today's poor (U.S.) more miserable than a century + ago?

Why are today's poor more miserable?

  • Because they don't have all their needs met.

    Votes: 6 14.6%

  • Because advertising constantly reminds them of what they can't afford.

    Votes: 15 36.6%

  • Because the rich are too rich!!

    Votes: 6 14.6%

  • Because they (the poor) no longer farm.

    Votes: 5 12.2%

  • Because they are no longer needed for manufacturing.

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • Because they're packed into cities.

    Votes: 8 19.5%

  • Because welfare breeds dependence and thus resentment.

    Votes: 17 41.5%

  • N/A - the poor have always been pretty equally miserable.

    Votes: 11 26.8%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 14 34.1%
  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .
MaggieD said:
Expectations. It's all about expectations. If you've ever listened to those who grew up during the depression, you know some real poverty stories. My mom used to eat lard-and-bread sandwiches. They ate dandelion greens. They couldn't afford chickens because they didn't have any money to buy feed for them. Couldn't have pigs for the same reason. They had a cow because she could graze on the land, so they had milk and butter. They ate lots of fish they caught in the river . . . a 6-mile walk from home . . . the boys would stay overnight.

Mom had one dress. One. That was for Sundays. They had no car . . . walked everywhere. Did they know they were poor? That answer would be, "No, they didn't." That was life.

And now we have politicians telling us that we're poor . . . that the middle class is dwindling . . . that we're entitled to have the wealth spread around. And we pine.
Click to expand...

Maggie- I was with you til the last sentence. We live in a consumer driven capitalist society that is summed up with 'new and improved'. NO politician is driving the Apple phone frenzy. NO politician is demands 12 cup holders in a mommy mobile. What politician ran on a platform of 52" plasma or bust?

Our system runs on consumers wanting past the basic need to excess, be it electricity, gas guzzlers, new Iphones... the biggest flaw in the system is money is being concentrated out of the reach of the consumers until the system can no longer support itself.

It isn't political, it is economic.
 
notquiteright said:
Maggie- I was with you til the last sentence. We live in a consumer driven capitalist society that is summed up with 'new and improved'. NO politician is driving the Apple phone frenzy. NO politician is demands 12 cup holders in a mommy mobile. What politician ran on a platform of 52" plasma or bust?

Our system runs on consumers wanting past the basic need to excess, be it electricity, gas guzzlers, new Iphones... the biggest flaw in the system is money is being concentrated out of the reach of the consumers until the system can no longer support itself.

It isn't political, it is economic.
Click to expand...
I think it's both. Politicians are pandering for our votes by reassuring us that our perceived shortcomings are not our fault, and filling people with the misguided notion that they can fix it. The media (read: advertising & marketing, primarily) is coming at people from the opposite side and doing what you say.
 
I don't see politicians as the crucial part in the mix. One man's pandering politician is another listen to the people.

Lest we forget the lobbyists and 'job creators' who tug on a politician's ear and line re-election pockets.

Politicians around the world tell the people 'we are the greatest nation on the planet', 'restore our grandeur', 'gain our place in the sun'... whatever.

Politicians mold themselves to the economic system.

Many politicians around the world promise a chicken in every pot, Hoover in 1928 threw in a car in every garage.

Not because 1928 voters needed that much pandering but rather the 1928 economy needed consumers to keep borrowing and spending.

Change the economic system and the politicians change as well, but to blame politicians for putting silly thoughts in the voter's heads- THAT is so trite it really needs to be retired.
 
notquiteright said:
I don't see politicians as the crucial part in the mix. One man's pandering politician is another listen to the people.

Lest we forget the lobbyists and 'job creators' who tug on a politician's ear and line re-election pockets.

Politicians around the world tell the people 'we are the greatest nation on the planet', 'restore our grandeur', 'gain our place in the sun'... whatever.

Politicians mold themselves to the economic system.

Many politicians around the world promise a chicken in every pot, Hoover in 1928 threw in a car in every garage.

Not because 1928 voters needed that much pandering but rather the 1928 economy needed consumers to keep borrowing and spending.

Change the economic system and the politicians change as well, but to blame politicians for putting silly thoughts in the voter's heads- THAT is so trite it really needs to be retired.
Click to expand...
You clearly underestimate the power of suggestion.
 
Oh it isn't all THAT clear, at least when it comes to politicians vs consumer/capitalist fundamentals.

Ask 50 people you meet tomorrow to finish a few advertising jingles, what new apps they are thinking of getting, the difference between two soft drinks-

THEN ask them to name their state rep, House of Rep member in DC, a line or two from either on anything, more than a line or two from their favorite political speech...

Then ask them for a line or two from their favorite movie.

I believe I clearly understand the power of suggestion-

Just suggest politicians lack much power with it.

politicians do gain from good brand identification, snappy logo, zinger of a catch phrase, but that is pure consumer/capitalism at work...

Have a Coke and a smile.... :peace
 
how does one define "miserable" in the sense that this question is asked? Are we asking about how people feel or are we asking about poverty relative to others? Having had no power for a week because of a storm pretty much sucked for me and I have stayed on vacation someplace where we had to use an outhouse for several days because heavy rains had saturated the septic system. Nothing like living like someone from 1912 to appreciate how awesome the simple things are today.
 
I watched an interesting movie on Netflix called, "Happy."
Made me think about this thread.

Assuming the information the researchers presented is accurate, they said that 50% of happiness is genetic, 10% is material and 40% is purposeful life actions.
It also did some contrasts that showed how a person living in a shanty town is happy, yet the average American (who is many times more wealthy) is less happy.

Quite interesting and thought provoking stuff.
 
MaggieD said:
Expectations. It's all about expectations. If you've ever listened to those who grew up during the depression, you know some real poverty stories. My mom used to eat lard-and-bread sandwiches. They ate dandelion greens. They couldn't afford chickens because they didn't have any money to buy feed for them. Couldn't have pigs for the same reason. They had a cow because she could graze on the land, so they had milk and butter. They ate lots of fish they caught in the river . . . a 6-mile walk from home . . . the boys would stay overnight.

Mom had one dress. One. That was for Sundays. They had no car . . . walked everywhere. Did they know they were poor? That answer would be, "No, they didn't." That was life.

And now we have politicians telling us that we're poor . . . that the middle class is dwindling . . . that we're entitled to have the wealth spread around. And we pine.
Click to expand...

Another thing that Happiness movie identified was that people who were thankful for what they have, were more happy.
Regardless of the amount of what they have.
 
Neomalthusian said:
Select all that apply.

I ask this with the underlying questions being, "What is it about poverty that we should be trying to resolve? Is it more important for those in poverty to organize and demand that their poverty be somehow eradicated...

...or is it more important for those in poverty to find ways to feel empowered, fulfilled, and independent, despite their limited means?
Click to expand...

I'm poor and I certainly am not miserable. Just saying...
 
Kal'Stang said:
I'm poor and I certainly am not miserable. Just saying...
Click to expand...
Poor by whose standards?? You can afford a computer, a connection service and the idle time to post here. Those are signs of incredible wealth to most of the world.
 
To me the definition of "poor" revolves around television. As a rough definition, I mean, not an absolute. If you have a cable/satellite account, you aren't "poor".

You may be broke, and I think too many people confuse the differences between "poor" and "broke", but you aren't poor.
 
cannuck said:
Poor by whose standards?? You can afford a computer, a connection service and the idle time to post here. Those are signs of incredible wealth to most of the world.
Click to expand...

I'm poor by the standards that are in the US. Which is what the thread is about. The US. Not the rest of the world.

Duh.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I'm poor by the standards that are in the US. Which is what the thread is about. The US. Not the rest of the world.

Duh.
Click to expand...
Whose standards in the US? The government's? The same government that has a vested interest in perpetuating their bureaucracy by categorizing people as poor when in fact they may be doing just fine?
 
radcen said:
Whose standards in the US? The government's? The same government that has a vested interest in perpetuating their bureaucracy by categorizing people as poor when in fact they may be doing just fine?
Click to expand...

How about we just use common sense? My family makes roughly 30k a year. How much does your family make?
 
MaggieD said:
Expectations. It's all about expectations. If you've ever listened to those who grew up during the depression, you know some real poverty stories. My mom used to eat lard-and-bread sandwiches. They ate dandelion greens. They couldn't afford chickens because they didn't have any money to buy feed for them. Couldn't have pigs for the same reason. They had a cow because she could graze on the land, so they had milk and butter. They ate lots of fish they caught in the river . . . a 6-mile walk from home . . . the boys would stay overnight.

Mom had one dress. One. That was for Sundays. They had no car . . . walked everywhere. Did they know they were poor? That answer would be, "No, they didn't." That was life.

And now we have politicians telling us that we're poor . . . that the middle class is dwindling . . . that we're entitled to have the wealth spread around. And we pine.
Click to expand...

I think the short answer to the thread is no, they are not more miserable or more impoverished. *

This is an interesting take on the homeless problem.

They go on the John Steinbeck, Grapes of Wrath Dust Bowl journey.



US ECONOMIC CRISIS & HIDDEN HOMELESS MIDDLE CLASS USING IMMIGRANT SHELTERS crookreport.co.uk - YouTube
 
I picked because welfare encourages dependence. Of course it does! That is why it should be mandatory that anyone on welfare take job training classes or get grants and go to school. Otherwise, these people are on again/off again welfare recipients throughout their lives. Just giving things to people makes them dependent when you don't offer them options to better themselves IMO.
 
Kandahar said:
What's your evidence that the poor ARE more miserable than a century ago? As far as I know opinion polling didn't really get started until about 1948...and even then, they wouldn't have sliced and diced the demographics like that until much later.
Click to expand...
It angers me that people do make these unprovable to criminally false statements.
"poor" is such a relative condition - to look at me, many would think that I am poor.....but I am really frugal and cheap...
What we need here are the words from a true "poor" man....all others should stay out !
 
lizzie said:
It doesn't appear that this has happened, as a general rule, for the past 40-50 years. You can't give someone money, or meet their basic needs, and then declare that their poverty has disappeared, because much of poverty is a way of thinking and behaving.
Click to expand...
It is true "a fool and his money are soon parted".
Obviously, we have to work on the fool portion.
Further, IMO, its intolerance which causes poverty.
However, in order to properly answer these questions , we need a "poor man" on this forum.
 
ChrisL said:
I picked because welfare encourages dependence. Of course it does! That is why it should be mandatory that anyone on welfare take job training classes or get grants and go to school. Otherwise, these people are on again/off again welfare recipients throughout their lives. Just giving things to people makes them dependent when you don't offer them options to better themselves IMO.
Click to expand...
Again, where is the "poor man" to refute this ?
I'll try - there are many state programs to this effect, right now.....but do you propose that the poor starve and have rotten teeth when they are trying to "mainstream ?
And did I mention the concrete wall of intolerance ?
If we really wish to help the "poor", we had best listen to them....
 
Kal'Stang said:
How about we just use common sense? My family makes roughly 30k a year. How much does your family make?
Click to expand...

Around that same figure, but twenty years ago, today, one may need twice that (inflation).
My federal taxes ...around 11% on 30K
Romney's......around 13% on 30M....and the conservatives think this is OK ????
 
earthworm said:
Again, where is the "poor man" to refute this ?
I'll try - there are many state programs to this effect, right now.....but do you propose that the poor starve and have rotten teeth when they are trying to "mainstream ?
And did I mention the concrete wall of intolerance ?
If we really wish to help the "poor", we had best listen to them....
Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about? I said that job training and/or schooling should be mandatory while receiving any kind of public assistance. I don't know what you're talking about.
 
radcen said:
Whose standards in the US? The government's? The same government that has a vested interest in perpetuating their bureaucracy by categorizing people as poor when in fact they may be doing just fine?
Click to expand...
Any proof of this ridiculous statement ?
Or are you just repeating what right-wing radio has to say ???
 
Neomalthusian said:
Select all that apply.

I ask this with the underlying questions being, "What is it about poverty that we should be trying to resolve? Is it more important for those in poverty to organize and demand that their poverty be somehow eradicated...

...or is it more important for those in poverty to find ways to feel empowered, fulfilled, and independent, despite their limited means?
Click to expand...

It's the sense of entitlement that has gone to people's heads and work ethic gone to heck.
 
The easiest answer to the op is that they are not. The material conditions notwithstanding, the only reason why it seems to be the case that they are more miserable is that everyone has a voice that is preserved on the internet. If people could have posted online with free or cheap smart phones in 1912 you would see quite a great bit of misery that there wasn't a reporter around to write.

Now that isn't to say that what people feel now isn't valid, it is, but the past wasn't a place where everything was always better or worse for that matter but people remembered things one way or the other usually.
 
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