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Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime? [W:636]

Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Muhammed a Crime?

  • Total voters
    186
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

cpwill said:
utterly furious? nope, just hopeful that it get's struck down as quickly as possible. If it doesn't get struck down, then i'll be ticked.
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It could create a legal precedence

Perhaps a new law making it illegal to criticize anything Iceland does as a nation - punishable by death.

Anti-Icelandic hatred cannot be tolerated in a functioning fascist corpocracy such as the USA.

(good luck with the supreme court overturning, I have it from a very secure source in the USA that the media, congress, banks and legal system are all controlled by you know who)
 
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Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Dragonfly said:
I did say I can see both sides.

I get the value of free speech.

Go practice some of that in an airplane and see what happens.

Context and intent.

Do you support civil suits being brought against the "film maker"?
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No.There is no constitutional right to not be offended.
 
X Factor said:
And, in fact, Gardener, I've been seeing enough people close to saying that very thing that I just wanted to cut to the chase and see how prevelant that position really is here. I'm heartened by the results so far.
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There really are quite a few, aren't there?

THere is a lot of double talk on these forums, though, and so it may be out of the question to expect many intellectually dishonest people to come right out and state directly what they have been stating in huge amounts otherwise. Heck, just look at the number of people who routinely demonize Israel while even going so far as to support Pally terrorism who then turn around and try to claim that they are taking an "even handed" approach? It boggles the mind, sometimes.


At the heart of ALL these arguments whenever Islam is involved, I get the impression of many kids who are acting out and many adults who are so filled with self-loathing that they turn their disgruntlement outward and so embrace anything that is out to destroy our way of life. This results in the tacit support for the Islamists that takes the form of endless apologia and endless mumbo jumbo double talk while stopping just barely short of direct support. It is really quite pervasive.

It's hip to defend Islamists. WHY it is hip is based upon many things, but I think a certain sense of cultural self-loathing is at its core.
 
Gardener said:
It's hip to defend Islamists. WHY it is hip is based upon many things, but I think a certain sense of cultural self-loathing is at its core.
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That's complete and utter nonsense.

Way to universally twist everything that's being discussed here.

:roll:
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Gardener said:
I'm not a white Christian male, and have said nothing about horrible persecution. I simply brought up a salient example that reveals the complete hypocrisy of those who create the sorts of double standards you are furthering here.
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It's funny, isn't it? He accuses me of being simplistic, yet assumes that your position must make you Christian. Lol. Btw, I really tried to avoid any value judgments in the way I phrased the question, but the responses I'm getting from some are really interesting. Why is this question so hard to answer?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

spud_meister said:
Of course it should. There are 4 people dead because the government lacks the balls to detain a person that deliberately inflames others to violence.
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That pisses me off so much, I have no recourse but to indulge in mindless mayhem.

Before I do, would you do me a solid, Bro, and send me your address? I will inform the Australian authorities beforehand to help facilitate your arrest.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

X Factor said:
It's funny, isn't it? He accuses me of being simplistic, yet assumes that your position must make you Christian. Lol. Btw, I really tried to avoid any value judgments in the way I phrased the question, but the responses I'm getting from some are really interesting. Why is this question so hard to answer?
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He should have checked with the denizens of the Middle East forum. Most of them think I'm a Jew :lamo
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Let me comment on the hate speech bit that was brought up earlier. The point about hate speech or fighting words is that they are calculated to bring about a violent reaction. That was the intent. From what I understand, this film was not meant as real academic critique. It was instead an insult, founded mainly in the religious bigotry of the creator. If he created a benign film, and the reaction was surprising and not at all what he intended to happen, then he has done nothing wrong. If instead he intentionally crafted an inflammatory and insulting piece, with no purpose other than to degrade and hurt people, then he is responsible for the current situation, and should be held accountable. Intent matters. No extra laws are necessary in this situation. We already hold people accountable for their calculated acts (including speech) that were intended to provoke a violent reaction.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

rocket88 said:
It's not a salient example. Those shows make fun of everybody's religion. I think they even make fun of atheists.
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It has nothing to do with how much is ridiculed, as the salience has to do with the reactions -- or lack thereof in the case of Christians, Jews, atheists and all others.

It is only because you have such a magnified deference for this ONE religion above all others that you pursue this objective that you obviously aren't pursuing for any other religion. Why is Islam inviolate? Is it only because so many Muslims react violently to any criticism and enormous numbers who are not so violent still wish to silence all criticism? That is hardly a good reason to do their bidding. Instead, I would suggest you form consistent attitudes towards all religions across the board rather than promoting these extreme double standards as you are doing.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

spud_meister said:
Of course it should. There are 4 people dead because the government lacks the balls to detain a person that deliberately inflames others to violence.
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Actually, four people are dead because an Ambassador trusted local protection over his own Marines and because an Ambassador was stupid enough to be in a place that was virtually undefended at a time that was known to be dangerous.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Paschendale said:
Let me comment on the hate speech bit that was brought up earlier. The point about hate speech or fighting words is that they are calculated to bring about a violent reaction. That was the intent. From what I understand, this film was not meant as real academic critique. It was instead an insult, founded mainly in the religious bigotry of the creator. If he created a benign film, and the reaction was surprising and not at all what he intended to happen, then he has done nothing wrong. If instead he intentionally crafted an inflammatory and insulting piece, with no purpose other than to degrade and hurt people, then he is responsible for the current situation, and should be held accountable. Intent matters. No extra laws are necessary in this situation. We already hold people accountable for their calculated acts (including speech) that were intended to provoke a violent reaction.
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Since when have you decided that it bothered you for people to be "hurt and degraded" for their religious beliefs?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

X Factor said:
Since when have you decided that it bothered you for people to be "hurt and degraded" for their religious beliefs?
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I'm sure it all depends on the people in question. Muslims, yes.

Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Shinto, Zoroastrians or any others -- not so much. That wouldn't be fashionable, you know.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Klown said:
(good luck with the supreme court overturning, I have it from a very secure source in the USA that the media, congress, banks and legal system are all controlled by you know who)
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Not sure if (overtly) joking.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Gardener said:
I'm sure it all depends on the people in question. Muslims, yes.

Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Shinto, Zoroastrians or any others -- not so much. That wouldn't be fashionable, you know.
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Well it's clear that anyone who supports non-violence has it all wrong. If you want government protection from having your religion mocked, criticized or whatever, just become violent and you'll inspire many people to, not only become your apologists, but will insist that others be punished for offending you in the first place.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

X Factor said:
Since when have you decided that it bothered you for people to be "hurt and degraded" for their religious beliefs?
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You completely missed the whole "calculated to cause a violent reaction" part, huh? But silly me for just explaining how hate speech laws actually work. That doesn't matter at all so long as you can pretend that your poor little majority religion that always gets its way in this country is somehow oppressed.

X Factor said:
Well it's clear that anyone who supports non-violence has it all wrong. If you want government protection from having your religion mocked, criticized or whatever, just become violent and you'll inspire many people to, not only become your apologists, but will insist that others be punished for offending you in the first place.
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You do understand that there can be a conflict in which both sides are wrong, right?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Paschendale said:
You completely missed the whole "calculated to cause a violent reaction" part, huh? But silly me for just explaining how hate speech laws actually work. That doesn't matter at all so long as you can pretend that your poor little majority religion that always gets its way in this country is somehow oppressed.
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I'm so offended and outraged. If you continue on with this, or any critcism of Christianity in the future, it'll be fair to assume that you're just trying to provoke me to violence.

You do understand that there can be a conflict in which both sides are wrong, right?
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I just don't put making a film (the dude who made it has the right to his opinion) on any where near the same level as killing people. My strongest condemnation will always be for the latter.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

X Factor said:
Well it's clear that anyone who supports non-violence has it all wrong. If you want government protection from having your religion mocked, criticized or whatever, just become violent and you'll inspire many people to, not only become your apologists, but will insist that others be punished for offending you in the first place.
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The lack of intelligence applied to this matter really amazes me, sometimes.

I recall a few years ago when there was a bit of an issue over the "PissChrist" idiot Dada photographic "art" where a person actually received a government endowment for this "art" which consisted of nothing more than a crucifix in a jar of Urine. Unlike the issue today, which consisted of a lone individual doing something with no government support and precious little from anybody else, this was actually a product of a national endowment for the arts, the "artist", himself actually earning 15000 dollars for it. Was this offensive to Christians? Of course. Was it intentionally offensive? Beyond any shadow of a doubt. Did Christians go on a rampage? No -- the worst thing that happened was that the "art", itself was vandalized. Was there a hue and cry from any of these extreme hypocrites currently getting their panties in a little knot over this film? You and I both know there wasn't.

THis isn't about having consistant values , applying those values to an issue and forming a rational reaction. It is about placating violent people because of their intimidation and saying the politically correct thing to say because of this intimidation. How else do you explain these incredible double standards peoppel support viv a vis Islam and any other religion?
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Paschendale said:
You completely missed the whole "calculated to cause a violent reaction" part, huh? But silly me for just explaining how hate speech laws actually work. That doesn't matter at all so long as you can pretend that your poor little majority religion that always gets its way in this country is somehow oppressed.
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Are you really as clueless as you sound?

It's like watching intentional satire due to the hypocrisy.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Absolutely not. We should also never cave into the barbaric acts of violence that others commit in response to having their feelings pricked.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

I remember as a wee nipper going to see the Phantom Menace in an Irish cinema. Upon learning that Anakin Skywalker was immaculately conceived, two elderly ladies stormed out in angry protest.

I was genuinely worried they would travel to America and burn Skywalker Ranch to the ground. In hindsight I wish they had.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Two people voted "yes" and two voted "I don't know".

That in itself is scary.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Kal'Stang said:
Two people voted "yes" and two voted "I don't know".

That in itself is scary.
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spud, being spud, likely cast a troll vote.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Dragonfly said:
Isn't it possible in the USofA to be charged with a crime for conspiring to kill the president?
Without ever leaving your bedroom, can't you be charged with a crime for simply blogging about such a thing?

No shots fired, never being closer than 1000 miles away, but just discussing over the phone, or through the internet can't you be charged with a crime?
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Yes, because "I am going to kill you," or "You - go kill that guy!" is still assaultive.
 
Re: Should The US Make Speech That's Critical or Disparaging of Mohammed a Crime?

Kal'Stang said:
Two people voted "yes" and two voted "I don't know".

That in itself is scary.
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At least they had the guts to vote. By my reading of several threads, there should be quite a few more "yes" votes than there currently are.
 
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