• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

Do you think Obama wants to redistribute wealth?

  • Total voters
    95
Navy Pride said:
What do you think and why would he want to do that?
Click to expand...


Could you define this "redistribute wealth" for me? What exactly do you mean? Give less corporate welfare and more social welfare?
 
How can anybody say no tho this question?

Obamacare takes money from people that can afford health care and gives it to people that can't

That is the definition of redistribution.
 
Thrilla said:
from 0 to 2,000 - 22,2%
from 2,001 to 4,000 -24.6%
from 4,001 to 6,000 - 29%
from 6,001 to 8,000 - 34%
from 8,001 to 10,000 -38%
from 10,001, to 12,000 -42%
from 12,001 to 14,000 - 48%
from 14,001 to 16,000 - 53%
from 16,0001 to 18,000 -56%
from 18,001 to 20,000 - 59%
from 20,001 to 22,000 - 62%
from 22,001 to 26,000 - 66%
from 26,001 to 32,000 - 67%

you first 2k was taxed at 22.2 %, the 2nd 2k was taxed at 24.6%.. and so on and so on... until you reached the 67% bracket on your final 4 grand.
Click to expand...

Hahaha

Let people graph/show THOSE rates and see what people think about it, instead of just a little graph with the top.
 
Mason66 said:
How can anybody say no tho this question?

Obamacare takes money from people that can afford health care and gives it to people that can't

That is the definition of redistribution.
Click to expand...

Heathcare costs have sky rocketed because of cost shifting...
 
sharon said:
I think Obama knows that America must have a robust Middle Class. How he goes about that is problematic unless he can change the tax incentives so US profits abroad are repatriated for investment HERE in the US.
Click to expand...

that was attempted last year.. the bipartisan Hagan-Mccain Repatriation Bill gave some serious incentives for repatriating offshore profits...and it was backed by Republican house leaders and businesses alike


.....and then Harry Reid killed it.
 
Thrilla said:
that was attempted last year.. the bipartisan Hagan-Mccain Repatriation Bill gave some serious incentives for repatriating offshore profits...and it was backed by Republican house leaders and businesses alike


.....and then Harry Reid killed it.
Click to expand...

Harry Reid? Oh mercy.. Guess I am not as partisan as you.. Hold their feet to the fire... and vote the ejits out of office regardless of what 'party" the claim.
 
sharon said:
I think Obama knows that America must have a robust Middle Class. How he goes about that is problematic unless he can change the tax incentives so US profits abroad are repatriated for investment HERE in the US.
Click to expand...

Obama SAYS America must have a robust middle class because that's his reelection platform. His policies redistribute wealth to the outliers (the rich, via corporate welfare, and the poor, via social welfare).

So if the corporate, banking and political elite are on the receiving end of welfare, and the poor are on the receiving end of welfare, who is left to pay for it?

Answer, by default: The Middle Class.

Translation: Obama will be re-elected on a platform that is diametrically opposite of his policy goals.


If you doubt this, just ask me for some examples.
 
Last edited:
Thrilla said:
that was attempted last year.. the bipartisan Hagan-Mccain Repatriation Bill gave some serious incentives for repatriating offshore profits...and it was backed by Republican house leaders and businesses alike


.....and then Harry Reid killed it.
Click to expand...

You consider this a SERIOUS bill?

Dollar Repatriation Tax Holiday Bill to Be Introduced by Hagan, McCain - Bloomberg

U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said a corporate repatriation proposal by Senators Kay Hagan and John McCain won’t pass the Senate as a stand-alone bill and needs to be coupled with infrastructure improvement efforts.

“It won’t just be simply repatriation,” the Nevada Democrat said. Corporate tax holiday legislation “will be part of an infrastructure program,” Reid said in a brief interview today. Reid declined to provide details. McCain and Hagan said they would introduce the legislation tomorrow.
Enlarge image Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat from Nevada. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg
Sponsored Links

Wells Fargo
Now receive double interest rate discounts on select ...
wellsfargo.com/doubled...

Wells Fargo Advisors Est...
Get your free estate planning toolkit from Wells Farg...
WellsFargoAdvisorsInfo...

Double Discount promotion
Get valuable double interest rate discounts on studen...
wellsfargo.com/doubled...
Buy a link

New York Senator Charles Schumer, the chamber’s No. 3 Democrat, said in June that Senate Democrats might be open to using the short-term revenue provided by a corporate tax holiday to finance an infrastructure bank.

Hagan, a Democrat from North Carolina, and McCain, an Arizona Republican, said today they will sponsor a bill to let U.S. companies bring home as much as $1.4 trillion of overseas profits at a reduced tax rate.

. . .
Click to expand...

More giveaways for multinational corporations
 
Neomalthusian said:
Obama SAYS America must have a robust middle class because that's his reelection platform. His policies redistribute wealth to the outliers (the rich, via corporate welfare, and the poor, via social welfare).

So if the corporate, banking and political elite are on the receiving end of welfare, and the poor are on the receiving end of welfare, who is left to pay for it?

Answer, by default: The Middle Class.

Translation: Obama will be re-elected on a platform that is diametrically opposite of his policy goals.
Click to expand...

Wait....what did you just say? That the middle class need welfare?

The middle class needs jobs, education and good wages. That's what Obama is talking about.

A Strong Middle Class | The White House

Sure never had a republican president set up a study to see where the laws hurt the middle class before. I think Obama is on the right track. Now, what do the republicans have to show for their 4 years of blocking jobs for the middle class?
 
Thrilla said:
:lol:.. and that's not even all of the brackets... there's 11 more I didn't list
Click to expand...

Just hit 'em with a couple of them, and that's the quick end of that graph. Be sure to point out how there was no 47% without income tax back then, too.
 
Muddy Creek said:
Wait....what did you just say? That the middle class need welfare?
Click to expand...

No, that's not what I just said. Try again.

The middle class needs jobs, education and good wages. That's what Obama is talking about.

A Strong Middle Class | The White House

Sure never had a republican president set up a study to see where the laws hurt the middle class before. I think Obama is on the right track. Now, what do the republicans have to show for their 4 years of blocking jobs for the middle class?
Click to expand...

My post is not a defense of Republicans. My post is about a glaring contrast between Obama's stated policy goals and what his policies actually DO.
 
Mason66 said:
How can anybody say no tho this question?

Obamacare takes money from people that can afford health care and gives it to people that can't

That is the definition of redistribution.
Click to expand...

How do you figure? It's the insurance companies that set the price. How about regulating them? Obama has no control over what the insurance industries do. Remember your republican party screaming "No" to Socialist health care, despite the fact every congressmen HAS socialist health care?

No, there's no government interference in health care..the republicans FINALLY got the mandatory insurance they wanted...held up by the republican supreme court.
 
Neomalthusian said:
No, that's not what I just said. Try again.



My post is not a defense of Republicans. My post is about a glaring contrast between Obama's stated policy goals and what his policies actually DO.
Click to expand...

By talking?

Show some facts and examples.
 
sharon said:
Harry Reid? Oh mercy.. Guess I am not as partisan as you.. Hold their feet to the fire... and vote the ejits out of office regardless of what 'party" the claim.
Click to expand...

how partisan am I?

in all the presidential and congressional election i've voted in... the majority of my votes went to Democrats, then Republicans,then Independents, then Libertarians, and then the Reform party and Constitution party....

oh yeah, I voted against Harry in his last run...and against Sharon Angle in the same race ( I cast for Tim Fasano(I))
 
Muddy Creek said:
By talking?

Show some facts and examples.
Click to expand...

PPACA -- it expands ACCESS to health care without making care affordable. Another example of stating a goal while in reality working directly against it. It bails out the poor by guaranteeing them coverage and it bails out the health insurance companies by protecting their revenue via mandate. The people this hits hardest? The middle class, who can JUST BARELY afford to continue forking over those huge amounts for premiums. The outliers (poor and rich) are done major favors, and the burden of paying for it is, once again, on the middle class.

Agriculture -- How are the middle class helped by a pro-food stamps, pro-biotech USDA and FDA? Obama appointed Tom Vilsack, founder of the Governor's Biotechnology Partnership, to head the USDA, and we've seen the food stamps program expand. He nominated Michael Taylor, the revolving door executive for Monsanto, to a senior position within the FDA. Food stamps bail out the poor and insure revenue for the largest biotech corporations that have taken over our food production process. The middle class derives the least benefit and greatest relative cost from this pro-welfare (corporate AND social welfare) approach to agriculture.

Banking -- We have one of the most pro-Goldman/JP Morgan/BoA/Wells Fargo/Citigroup administrations in history, and Obama brokered and supported the TARP which benefits the wealthy bankers while the poor remain excused from the tax burdens that these bailout programs create.

It goes on and on. Obama is anti-Middle Class. He alleges to be working for them, and that is his greatest lie.
 
Last edited:
Muddy Creek said:
You consider this a SERIOUS bill?

Dollar Repatriation Tax Holiday Bill to Be Introduced by Hagan, McCain - Bloomberg



More giveaways for multinational corporations
Click to expand...


yes, i considered it a serious bill.... it taxed repatriated profits ( aprox 1.7 trillion bucks worth) at 8.75%.. with incentives to lower that to 5.25% if certain employment creation conditions were met ( a 10% increase in US jobs was required to get the lowest rate).

the alternative is and was... a 35% tax on $0.00 in repatriated profits and no new job creation incentives

congratulations, the Obama administration and Harry Reid chose the route that gained us $0 in tax revenue and no new jobs....well done.
 
Thrilla said:
yes, i considered it a serious bill.... it taxed repatriated profits ( aprox 1.7 trillion bucks worth) at 8.75%.. with incentives to lower that to 5.25% if certain employment creation conditions were met ( a 10% increase in US jobs was required to get the lowest rate).

the alternative is and was... a 35% tax on $0.00 in repatriated profits and no new job creation incentives

congratulations, the Obama administration and Harry Reid chose the route that gained us $0 in tax revenue and no new jobs....well done.
Click to expand...

The only thing serious in THIS bill were more tax cuts for the rich corporations..with a "tax Holiday" or NOT paying taxes..and then letting corporations pay LESS in taxes for being overseas. Reid SAVED the debt from INCREASING with yet more tax cuts for the rich.
 
ecofarm said:
Just hit 'em with a couple of them, and that's the quick end of that graph. Be sure to point out how there was no 47% without income tax back then, too.
Click to expand...

everybody, across the board, paid significantly more in taxes back then.. poor ,rich, and in-between

folks don't want that now... folks want the other guy to pay more.... the lower classes think the should get breaks and the rich should pay more... the upper classes they feel they pay enough or too much and want the 47% to chip in.

our current political leadership mirrors these sentiments.

until the right person comes along to motivate everyone to chip in together, we're gonna be in trouble.
 
Muddy Creek said:
The only thing serious in THIS bill were more tax cuts for the rich corporations..with a "tax Holiday" or NOT paying taxes..and then letting corporations pay LESS in taxes for being overseas. Reid SAVED the debt from INCREASING with yet more tax cuts for the rich.
Click to expand...

that's one way to spin it I suppose.

ya know what else Harry Reid did?... he gave corporations incentives to not repatriate profits.

for me, I think i like the idea of getting 8.75% of over a trillion bucks as opposed to 35% of nothing.... i'm funny that way.
 
Thrilla said:
everybody, across the board, paid significantly more in taxes back then.. poor ,rich, and in-between

folks don't want that now... folks want the other guy to pay more.... the lower classes think the should get breaks and the rich should pay more... the upper classes they feel they pay enough or too much and want the 47% to chip in.

our current political leadership mirrors these sentiments.

until the right person comes along to motivate everyone to chip in together, we're gonna be in trouble.
Click to expand...

I think if we look at the rates comparitively, we'll find that there is a larger gap between 30k and 200k today (23% then).
 
Neomalthusian said:
PPACA -- it expands ACCESS to health care without making care affordable. Another example of stating a goal while in reality working directly against it. It bails out the poor by guaranteeing them coverage and it bails out the health insurance companies by protecting their revenue via mandate. The people this hits hardest? The middle class, who can JUST BARELY afford to continue forking over those huge amounts for premiums. The outliers (poor and rich) are done major favors, and the burden of paying for it is, once again, on the middle class.


How do you figure? IF insurance companies have NO regulation, they STILL have to have consumers. Premiums will DROP so that others can get on THEIR health insurance plan. I realize the monopolies price fixing and gouging economy the republicans have created with the "free market" have left many without any compass for what constitutes capitalism, but this is not going to hurt the middle class, who will be shopping for the best deal...and companies willing to make that offer.

Agriculture -- How are the middle class helped by a pro-food stamps, pro-biotech USDA and FDA? Obama appointed Tom Vilsack, founder of the Governor's Biotechnology Partnership, to head the USDA, and we've seen the food stamps program expand. He nominated Michael Taylor, the revolving door executive for Monsanto, to a senior position within the FDA. Food stamps bail out the poor and insure revenue for the largest biotech corporations that have taken over our food production process. The middle class derives the least benefit and greatest relative cost from this pro-welfare (corporate AND social welfare) approach to agriculture.

Foodstamps have expanded due to republcian slashing of government jobs. The tea party governors got rid of teachers, as well, and took funds from the PUBLIC education to go to charter schools where most of the "teachers" have no degrees and are paid very poorly. The military qualifies for foodstamps if they have a family. When government middle class jobs disappear at the rate and frequency the republicans have been doing for 5 years, then you have slow to no private sector growth and an increase in food stamps.

Banking -- We have one of the most pro-Goldman/JP Morgan/BoA/Wells Fargo/Citigroup administrations in history, and Obama brokered and supported the TARP which benefits the wealthy bankers while the poor remain excused from the tax burdens that these bailout programs create.

Bush and Henry Paulson, his Treasury Secretary who just left his post as CEO of Goldman/Sachs brokered the Bank deal, along with the AIG insurance deal and others. They gave over $1 trillion to failed businesses because they were monopolies. KNow hat the kicker is? The Federal Reserve GAVE the banks $7 trillion just before. Think Bush knew? Of course he did.

The poor pay taxes....the fact they make so LITTLE money during the year means they don't pay INCOME tax with the IRS, but they pay federal taxes all year long. And State and local and county and all the other taxes on gas and phones and . . .

It goes on and on. Obama is anti-Middle Class. He alleges to be working for them, and that is his greatest lie.
Click to expand...

You on the right can't have it both ways. You've talked yourself in circles to the point no one believes you anymore. FIRST, you want government OUT of our lives...NO regulation on wages and health insurance and safety on the job. NO regulation protecting from cancers emitted from factories. THEN you say the GOVERNMENT doesn't create jobs, the rich create jobs and you cheer the republicans SLASHING Middle class jobs and getting RID of middle class wages and then wonder why the rich aren't creating jobs? Make a note to yourself...corporations about PROFITS...not JOBS.

Now you say you blame Obama for NOT doing enough for the middle class DESPITE the fact that if a person CANNOT afford health insurance, the government will assist. That insurance companies can't DROP a person when they become sick or another carrier can't STOP coverage on conditions which existed BEFORE. STUDENTS are covered on health care plans by their parents while they are getting a degree.

Tea Party governors are PUSHING the Koch Brothers ALEC legislation for the "Right to Work" laws which ALLOWS employers to LOWER wages of employees and to pay a LOT less in wages to teens and retired people.


You are right..there is a war on the Middle class. But just like the war on women, it's coming from the pro-rich/pro-corporatoins are people , right
 
Thrilla said:
that's one way to spin it I suppose.

ya know what else Harry Reid did?... he gave corporations incentives to not repatriate profits.

for me, I think i like the idea of getting 8.75% of over a trillion bucks as opposed to 35% of nothing.... i'm funny that way.
Click to expand...



Oh, that's not spin. That's the facts. And show me the link to your Reid accusation, if you would.
 
Muddy Creek said:
The only thing serious in THIS bill were more tax cuts for the rich corporations..with a "tax Holiday" or NOT paying taxes..and then letting corporations pay LESS in taxes for being overseas. Reid SAVED the debt from INCREASING with yet more tax cuts for the rich.
Click to expand...

Corporations rarely pay taxes..... they have too many deductions and loopholes.... but I think a progressive tax would be ideal..

Say some ceiling of 300k paying 10% across the board and everyone above that paying 20%..

Of course it would never happen.. with 8,000 pages of tax code, special interests exemptions are the name of the game and gives idiot politicians their power.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom