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Are we better off than the prehistoric man?

ab9924

Educator / Liar Champion
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This may be a no-brainer, but really. We work more hours than the prehistoric man hunted. We work in artificial environments that stretches our social/family ties, the prehistoric man did all his activities with the involvement of his social/family environment. The prehistoric man was "separated" from the animal kingdom by inventing that the weakest member of his horde was worth enough to support, we eagerly write off everybody who is not competitive enough.

And what do we gain for these sacrifices? We can drive more expensive cars to take an even remoter job. We can buy more expensive houses that we hardly have any time to spend in. We can get hefty investment account balances that evaporate in one swoop at any stock market/credit dip/crash or at any structural unemployment experience. What is the difference between slavery and controlling the prices of all trades by cornering the markets? They teach in school that slavery was the step-ahead that advanced civilization out of the prehistoric age. But was it really a progression or a regression? Is our world today a progression?
 
Imo, we aren't better off as a general rule. Technology is nice, but our problem-solving skills are probably suffering collectively, and our minds and bodies are idle too much of the time.
 
Prehistoric man lived to 16.

/thread.
 
As an old backpacker and especially the old part, the absolute value of hot and cold running water is not to be discounted.
 
If you want the virtues of a rougher life, of which there are many, along with the deeply integrated family and social structure but don't want to live in a cave nor skin an animal to use his fur as underwear, than join the Amish community where you can have a decent mix of the goold ol' work ethic without having to worry about a broken arm or leg being a death sentance because you can no longer hunt.
 
prehistoric man could expect a lifespan of around 40 with high infant mortality. medical advances included trepanning in order to let out the demons. starvation was a significant risk, and when another tribe came over the hill without warning, they were probably coming to kill you or worse. popular forms of death included freezing, being killed in battle, or being eaten by large predators. to top off the fun, breeding age for women was mid teens, so that's when you could expect to be taken by your future husband. also, you probably don't get a great degree of choice in the matter.

so, in my professional opinion, you all can have that ****. i prefer to hang out here, have a car, and eat clif bars and diet coke. sure, it sometimes sucks having to work 40 hour weeks because somebody decided that was "full time," but it doesn't suck that much.
 
As an old backpacker and especially the old part, the absolute value of hot and cold running water is not to be discounted.

not to mention having a toilet you can sit on instead of digging a hole and squatting over it.

The hunter-gatherer societies of yore led pretty difficult lives, given extremes of weather, diseases, difficulty of finding food, being constantly on the move.

No, I'll take that running water, well stocked fridge, car on the highway instead of bare feet on a rocky path, antibiotics when necessary, electricity, and the rest of it.

But, I still like to disappear into the wilderness for a short visit from time to time, equipped with a backpacking stove, a rain and mosquito proof tent, freeze dried food, and a warm sleeping bag, none of which our ancestors had.
 
...and a big ass gun for things that go bump in the night. **** rocks and sticks. Propelling lead at 2000 ft./second is awesome.
 
prehistoric man could expect a lifespan of around 40 with high infant mortality. medical advances included trepanning in order to let out the demons. starvation was a significant risk, and when another tribe came over the hill without warning, they were probably coming to kill you or worse. popular forms of death included freezing, being killed in battle, or being eaten by large predators. to top off the fun, breeding age for women was mid teens, so that's when you could expect to be taken by your future husband. also, you probably don't get a great degree of choice in the matter.

so, in my professional opinion, you all can have that ****. i prefer to hang out here, have a car, and eat clif bars and diet coke. sure, it sometimes sucks having to work 40 hour weeks because somebody decided that was "full time," but it doesn't suck that much.

Actually, iirc, it was parasites and infections that were responsible for ahort primitive lifespans.

But they did apparently "work" about twenty hours a week to provide for their needs. More in harsh environments, less in hospitable ones.

NONE spent 25% of their total effort on housing ALONE.

I prefer modern comforts, but the "nasty, brutish and short" meme isn't accurate.
 
And "prehistoric" man lived to be about 25.
 
This may be a no-brainer, but really. We work more hours than the prehistoric man hunted. We work in artificial environments that stretches our social/family ties, the prehistoric man did all his activities with the involvement of his social/family environment. The prehistoric man was "separated" from the animal kingdom by inventing that the weakest member of his horde was worth enough to support, we eagerly write off everybody who is not competitive enough.

And what do we gain for these sacrifices? We can drive more expensive cars to take an even remoter job. We can buy more expensive houses that we hardly have any time to spend in. We can get hefty investment account balances that evaporate in one swoop at any stock market/credit dip/crash or at any structural unemployment experience. What is the difference between slavery and controlling the prices of all trades by cornering the markets? They teach in school that slavery was the step-ahead that advanced civilization out of the prehistoric age. But was it really a progression or a regression? Is our world today a progression?

In my book a "better" life equates with a longer life. Cavemen rarely lived out of their 30's. Who cares how great it was?
 
This may be a no-brainer, but really. We work more hours than the prehistoric man hunted.

We also have more opportunities for leisure and more comfortable lifestyles.

We work in artificial environments that stretches our social/family ties, the prehistoric man did all his activities with the involvement of his social/family environment.

Not for very long. It's hard to maintain social/family ties when everyone you know dies by age 25.

The prehistoric man was "separated" from the animal kingdom by inventing that the weakest member of his horde was worth enough to support, we eagerly write off everybody who is not competitive enough.

We give the weak in our society far more support than prehistoric people ever did.
 
We are certainly better off than Prehistoric women.
 
In my book a "better" life equates with a longer life.

Equates? Don't ya think that's a bit simple? I mean, at some point people might give up and figure "it doesn't get any better from here, only longer" but I think that's a bad attitude.
 
Equates? Don't ya think that's a bit simple? I mean, at some point people might give up and figure "it doesn't get any better from here, only longer" but I think that's a bad attitude.

Nope not me. You only go around once.
 
Nope not me. You only go around once.

He who lives the longest wins; wouldn't that philosophy render someone a wretched coward?


ps. I don't believe in a conscious afterlife.
 
I prefer modern comforts, but the "nasty, brutish and short" meme isn't accurate.

are you kidding? they didn't have internet or distilled spirits, either.

f that s right in the a. 2012, you are my friend.
 
Here's one off the top of my head: anesthesia. Think about a world without it.
 
He who lives the longest wins; wouldn't that philosophy render someone a wretched coward?


ps. I don't believe in a conscious afterlife.

Wanting a longer lifespan does not equate with caring only abou thow long you live. You are oversimplifying. You can have a long satisfying life.
 
Well - you can life 'prehistoric' (your interpretation of it) for a while and compare . . . which do you prefer?
 
This may be a no-brainer, but really. We work more hours than the prehistoric man hunted. We work in artificial environments that stretches our social/family ties, the prehistoric man did all his activities with the involvement of his social/family environment. The prehistoric man was "separated" from the animal kingdom by inventing that the weakest member of his horde was worth enough to support, we eagerly write off everybody who is not competitive enough.

And what do we gain for these sacrifices? We can drive more expensive cars to take an even remoter job. We can buy more expensive houses that we hardly have any time to spend in. We can get hefty investment account balances that evaporate in one swoop at any stock market/credit dip/crash or at any structural unemployment experience. What is the difference between slavery and controlling the prices of all trades by cornering the markets? They teach in school that slavery was the step-ahead that advanced civilization out of the prehistoric age. But was it really a progression or a regression? Is our world today a progression?



Lawd not this again.

I know it has become fashionable to lament the change from hunter-gather to agrarian lifestyles, let alone the modern technological age, but holy crap people think it through.

No modern dentistry. No antibiotics. No anti-virals. No vaccinations. You'd be an elder if you lived to be 40, and you probably wouldn't enjoy middle age much. Many would die in childhood or early adulthood of diseases, disorders and injuries that are trivial with modern medical science.

You'd travel on foot, and there would be no roads. 30 miles and back would be a journey you'd pack multiple-days worth of supplies for. No Kelty backpacks or waterproof ultralight tents. Travel would be arduous and dangerous and a migration would involve many deaths, especially among the old and the very young.

Few if any metal tools. Ladies, you'd cook over a campfire. You'd fry quail eggs on hot rocks, and you'd boil water by fishing hot rocks out of the fire with crude wooden tongs and dropping them in a leather waterskin. Men, you'd hunt with a spear or possibly a crude bow and arrows. If some bear decided to take your family's daily food from you, you could either run away or fight 400-800 pounds of fur and fangs with crude hand weapons.

Might make for a fun adventure-vacation for a week or two, but you'd do it day in and day out, month after month and year after year, and it wouldn't be an adventure, it would be a daily grind.


No maternity wards, no ultrasound, no pediatricians.... and no epidural to ease the pain. No condoms, no implants, no Pill. Have fun gals. :)


No central heating or AC. In the winter you'd freeze your ass off, in the summer you'd broil, and there would be no relief.

Primitive societies are not peaceful nature lovers... they're engaged in a bitter, hard tooth-and-nail battle-for-survival with nature. They're also inclined to make war on other tribes, and historically many practiced cannibalism or torture of prisoners or both.



You'd be born, live your life, and die (probably in your 30's) as ignorant as dirt. You wouldn't know what stars were, or what lightning was. You'd probably think disease was caused by evil spirits and let the tribal Shaman beat your sick daughter with a Ju-Ju Stick to drive out the Fever Imps. You'd probably live in constant fear of imaginary monsters... anything you didn't understand would frighten you, and you would understand almost nothing.

You could be in perfect health and youth and still die from an infected splinter, or dysentery, or childbirth, or an abcessed tooth.


No thanks. I prefer the modern world, flawed as it is.
 
I'd assume we are, because we live four times longer. True, we have stress, but it is about small things. 21st century man worries about a promotion. 210th century BCE man worried about being eaten by a lion. We have better medical care, safe food, safe water, war is less barbaric.

I love it when people who live hundreds of thousands of years post hoc glorify a time when they wouldn't survive a week.
 
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We're far better off than prehistoric man was, in a great number of ways.
 
It occurs to me that, if we were to live out of doors in tents and cook over fires made by wood we've gathered, we could get by on earnings from working 20 hours a week, too.

and we wouldn't have to try to kill large animals with hand thrown spears, either.
 
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