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Welfare

How should welfare be handled?


  • Total voters
    47
From my point of view, the day you receive one cent more from the government than you have put in, is the day when one goes from being an asset to a liability.

So I assume that since the supreme count made corporations "persons". Your point of view also applies to corporations?
 
Helping those that are down should be handled by families, churches, neighbors and communities. That's the right way.
That's how we handled it before our population grew to huge levels and moved into cities away from extended families. It became impractical, and likely impossible, for regular people and private institutions to take care of those who were down. Because of that, government institutions were formed to pick up the slack. Therefore, while it may be "right" in a moral or ethical sense depending on who you ask, it's just not going to work.
 
In a perfect world...

But even churches have a hard time getting people in the doors these days. Neighbors and communities are, too often, are not neighborly and communal. It's the "me" generation.

when one of our kids or grandkids needs a million bucks worth of brain surgeries, rehab, etc. the churches and family and neighbors can't handle it....
I know several "conservatives" who turn liberal when it is one of their own who needs such help....
 
I'm not sure TBH, I do believe that Welfare should be tied to some kind of work program/education program in order to improve the lives of the people on welfare so that they can eventually get out of the program.

Agreed. If done right, I really don't care who runs it.
 
Agreed. If done right, I really don't care who runs it.

many winters ago, in Idaho, a lady I know was a single mom, husband took off, paid no child support. She and her kids moved in with her mom. The state paid her living and child care expenses til she got training and a job, and she was grateful, and thanked them. State said no, we are not done with you yet. We will continue to pay your mother for child care while you work. she said no, don't need it....wouldn't even sign the paperwork after they filled it out for her.
That is how it should work....take the help you NEED and not one dime more...
 
many winters ago, in Idaho, a lady I know was a single mom, husband took off, paid no child support. She and her kids moved in with her mom. The state paid her living and child care expenses til she got training and a job, and she was grateful, and thanked them. State said no, we are not done with you yet. We will continue to pay your mother for child care while you work. she said no, don't need it....wouldn't even sign the paperwork after they filled it out for her.
That is how it should work....take the help you NEED and not one dime more...

Sounds like my mother. Got some training after Dad left, and worked every single work day of her life until one week before cancer finally took her. And there are people like that today as well. See them everyday struggling to get by. Wonder why they never make the news or anyone's stories?
 
Sounds like my mother. Got some training after Dad left, and worked every single work day of her life until one week before cancer finally took her. And there are people like that today as well. See them everyday struggling to get by. Wonder why they never make the news or anyone's stories?

Such people aren't newsworthy, I guess....
 
Such people aren't newsworthy, I guess....

Someone doing it right doesn't get noticed any more than someone driving correctly without having an accident. However, we often get a false impression by seeing only those who do it wrong.
 
What are your opinions on welfare management? Several mainstream options of handling welfare are in the poll.

Well ... at times I think if it were possible it should be a face to face local level of scrutiny with employment counseling and case management.

Check out this local program. If welfare had that level of scrutiny and was on a local level with no additional state or federal assistance it could reduce fraud.

http://nhlegalaid.org/NHLocalWelfare



I do not like to hear of anyone playing the system whether it be individuals on welfare, corporate welfare or military disability fraud. On the other hand ... as a society we want to help those truly unable (think veteran with serious combat injury or person born with spina bifida as examples).

Whenever we develop safety nets and laws to help those truly in need there is fraud. However banking, finance, corporate and hidden income offshore is also just as fraudulent.
 
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I think I agree with previous posts, that the federal government can set guidelines and perhaps contribute relatively small sums to assist the states but the states themselves handle the taxation and implementation of welfare.

Like most issues, though, I'm undefined
 
Except in cases of disability, it should be temporary with the aim of getting people into the work force. That might include job training, education or some level of work. How to define temporary, I'm not sure.

I lean toward letting the federal government administer it.

I'm open to it including a mix of loans and grants repayable through additional but discrete tax withholdings and tax refund fortitude once the recipients get on their feet again.

Set up a federally run charity that anyone at their own volition may donate to if they personally want to supplement the welfare system.
 
The LDS church welfare program has some serious scrutiny.....you are expected to endure some finanicial counseling. You can't get help from them while paying for cable TV with the sports programming package, for example. You are expected to live a reasonable life, not an extravagant one, while drawing welfare. But the latter is how some people get in trouble in the first place.
Just because your income allows a mansion now doesn't mean it will next year. I know more than a few well educated, well paid people who fell into that trap.
 
What are your opinions on welfare management? Several mainstream options of handling welfare are in the poll.

among the options proffered, leave it to the states. they will come up with different solutions and we will all be able to see what works and what doesn't.


In general, however, I think welfare as it is currently structured is incredibly harmful to the sections of our populace that are most vulnerable, and I would like to see the intent of welfare achieved through superior means.
 
many winters ago, in Idaho, a lady I know was a single mom, husband took off, paid no child support. She and her kids moved in with her mom. The state paid her living and child care expenses til she got training and a job, and she was grateful, and thanked them. State said no, we are not done with you yet. We will continue to pay your mother for child care while you work. she said no, don't need it....wouldn't even sign the paperwork after they filled it out for her.
That is how it should work....take the help you NEED and not one dime more...

Agreed. Sadly, that is not how the system is designed - currently state officials get "free money" for signing more people up for programs that receive federal support, and so their incentives are to encourage as many people as possible to get on them. I have people who cannot understand why I would qualify for federal aid programs and not take them. I explain to them that I have the ability to save, which means I have disposable income, which means that I do not need WIC etc., and I just get back dumb looks.
 
Agreed. Sadly, that is not how the system is designed - currently state officials get "free money" for signing more people up for programs that receive federal support, and so their incentives are to encourage as many people as possible to get on them. I have people who cannot understand why I would qualify for federal aid programs and not take them. I explain to them that I have the ability to save, which means I have disposable income, which means that I do not need WIC etc., and I just get back dumb looks.

One of my elderly AZ neighbors gave me some "commodities" that he gets for free, based on low income....he isn't poor, just has low cash flow. His bank accounts are quite fat.....
Once he brought over some peanut butter made in INDIA, like we can't grow peanuts here in the USA? It was pretty bad, and we put it into the trash immediately. Seems to me if we are going to feed our poor, whether real or not, we should use American grown food.
 
One of my elderly AZ neighbors gave me some "commodities" that he gets for free, based on low income....he isn't poor, just has low cash flow. His bank accounts are quite fat.....
Once he brought over some peanut butter made in INDIA, like we can't grow peanuts here in the USA? It was pretty bad, and we put it into the trash immediately. Seems to me if we are going to feed our poor, whether real or not, we should use American grown food.

Durka durka durka. Come into the 21 century. Fortress America will never work. It did not work for China and their high growth rates are due to being more open and starting from the bottom. If you want to live in a closed society move to one. Of course, you can't becasue you won't be able to survive. You are utterly dependent on being supported by those using a common language and that look like you. Quit being a burden to your brothers.
 
I'm afraid that I still see GE, BP, Exxon/Mobil, General Dynamics, Martin Marietta, all Central Utilities, all defense contractors, all transportation systems, all Nuke activities, and more too numerous to mention as the largest welfare recipients. Many poor need help and can't present a defense when accused. The Corporations just buy another politician. I have seen generational welfare and families taught how to make a living on welfare. I am certainly against that. My real world point of view says we must attack Corporate and Personal welfare with the same club or do neither. The poor have no defense, they are helpless, so you know any such program will definitely harm the genuinely poor. We can talk about it, ad infinitum, but it's a big bag of snakes. Try stopping Nuclear subsidies and watch the news wires, newspapers, TV stations, Cable, and magazine articles squeal about the injustice being perpetrated upon the Industry. For the most part, the poor people on welfare are surviving, not living high on the hog. At least, that is what I see.
 
Durka durka durka. Come into the 21 century. Fortress America will never work. It did not work for China and their high growth rates are due to being more open and starting from the bottom. If you want to live in a closed society move to one. Of course, you can't becasue you won't be able to survive. You are utterly dependent on being supported by those using a common language and that look like you. Quit being a burden to your brothers.

and how is voluntarily consuming nasty tasting food from India going to help my "brothers"...
sorry, my brothers are on their own. both of them are poor, by choice.
 
Durka durka durka. Come into the 21 century. Fortress America will never work. It did not work for China and their high growth rates are due to being more open and starting from the bottom. If you want to live in a closed society move to one. Of course, you can't becasue you won't be able to survive. You are utterly dependent on being supported by those using a common language and that look like you. Quit being a burden to your brothers.

I nominate this for the dumbest post of the month.
 
and how is voluntarily consuming nasty tasting food from India going to help my "brothers"...
sorry, my brothers are on their own. both of them are poor, by choice.

Do you not understand metaphors? This is why we need more understanding of science, art and religion (not one religion all religions, science and art too).

You are a burden on your brothers because you are demanding that they fight a useless war (trade or violent) or spend their energies patching some stupid wall instead of using their energy for creative purposes.

The biggest problem in this country is not the poor people on welfare. It is the rich people on welfare who will not remove their hands from the till. That will soon crush us. We can carry the poor easily. We can not carry the poor, middle class and rich.

WE are the creators. Those that would rather work towards a solution than fight for control. I would be working right now, except that I am growing more and more concerned about the vitriol and infighting.
 
I nominate this for the dumbest post of the month.

It sailed right over your head. Little shrubs grow jealous and blame it on the shade.
 
The LDS church welfare program has some serious scrutiny.....you are expected to endure some finanicial counseling. You can't get help from them while paying for cable TV with the sports programming package, for example. You are expected to live a reasonable life, not an extravagant one, while drawing welfare. But the latter is how some people get in trouble in the first place. Just because your income allows a mansion now doesn't mean it will next year. I know more than a few well educated, well paid people who fell into that trap.
The LDS have the right idea. The church maintains farms, worked by the members (volunteer labor, a chance to serve fellow man), the products go into food warehouses all over the world to feed the hungry. There is no chance of recipients cashing in food stamps for booze, hungry people get food, and even the poor can pitch in and donate a day's labor on the church farm.
 
The LDS have the right idea. The church maintains farms, worked by the members (volunteer labor, a chance to serve fellow man), the products go into food warehouses all over the world to feed the hungry. There is no chance of recipients cashing in food stamps for booze, hungry people get food, and even the poor can pitch in and donate a day's labor on the church farm.

I saw something the other day about a raisin farm, turning perfectly good grapes into raisins. Surely there is more money to be made in wine?:2razz:
 
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