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Are Teachers Overpaid and Underworked?

Are teachers overpaid and underworked?

  • Yes, they are overpaid and underworked

    Votes: 10 15.2%

  • No, they are not overpaid and underworked

    Votes: 56 84.8%
  • Total voters
    66
Josie said:
The overworked thing ... it depends. Some years I'm constantly talking on the phone to parents, writing notes, brainstorming ways to make things better and doing piles of paperwork. Other years I have a smaller class with less behavior and academic issues. Likewise, some days are a breeze and some are from Hell. I rarely feel overworked and if I am, it's because I'm neurotic and and want everything to be just right.

I believe my job is important since I'm teaching the country's 6 year olds to read and write, but I also don't feel that every teacher should be put on a pedestal to be ooohed and awwwed at. I've seen my fair share of really crappy teachers. They don't deserve a pedestal, let alone a paycheck.

Therefore, I hate questions like this because it's assuming that all teachers equally work hard and are very good at their job. That's just not the case.
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I wouldn't put all teachers on a pedestal, but I would the profession itself on a pedestal.

A nurse requires the same amount of education as a teacher. Yet, a nurse gets paid more than a teacher. Which is the more difficult job, and which has greater importance? Are they equally difficult and important? If so, then why aren't they paid roughly equal amounts.
 
zstep18 said:
I wouldn't put all teachers on a pedestal, but I would the profession itself on a pedestal.

A nurse requires the same amount of education as a teacher. Yet, a nurse gets paid more than a teacher. Which is the more difficult job, and which has greater importance? Are they equally difficult and important? If so, then why aren't they paid roughly equal amounts.
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Does any of that even mesh up with how markets function at all?
 
Henrin said:
I will admit I'm not opened minded, and the chances I will accept what you say on the matter is close to none, but all the same I want to hear what you have to say.
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You have already admitted you are closed mined on this just as I maintained you were. It would like throwing the seeds to grow orchids on an airport tarmac in July in the heat of Dubai.
 
haymarket said:
You have already admitted you are closed mined on this just as I maintained you were. It would like throwing the seeds to grow orchids on an airport tarmac in July in the heat of Dubai.
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I think you can't actually defend it, but fine. I am more interested in what Mega has to say on this as its his statement that started this after all. Your support is just secondary really.
 
zstep18 said:
Basic morality doesn't mesh up with how markets function, so I don't really care.
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How do you measure your standards and how do you keep it free flowing?
 
Henrin said:
I think you can't actually defend it, but fine. Doesn't much matter to me. I am more interested in what Mega has to say on this as its statement that started this after all. Your support is just secondary really.
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There is nothing to defend and nobody to defend it to.
 
Josie said:
The overworked thing ... it depends. Some years I'm constantly talking on the phone to parents, writing notes, brainstorming ways to make things better and doing piles of paperwork. Other years I have a smaller class with less behavior and academic issues. Likewise, some days are a breeze and some are from Hell. I rarely feel overworked and if I am, it's because I'm neurotic and and want everything to be just right.

I believe my job is important since I'm teaching the country's 6 year olds to read and write, but I also don't feel that every teacher should be put on a pedestal to be ooohed and awwwed at. I've seen my fair share of really crappy teachers. They don't deserve a pedestal, let alone a paycheck.

Therefore, I hate questions like this because it's assuming that all teachers equally work hard and are very good at their job. That's just not the case.
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You make a good point and sound like a good teacher. It is the teachers union that has enabled such crappy teachers to teach that gives the word teacher a bad name, sorry to lump you in with this crowd.
 
Proud South Korean said:
Over $700 billion are spent in defense around the world.
Less than $100 billion are spent in education.
Make your own conclusions
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Typical lib response, just throw more money at a problem and it will go away. In reality the only thing that goes away is the money itself.
 
zstep18 said:
I wouldn't put all teachers on a pedestal, but I would the profession itself on a pedestal.

A nurse requires the same amount of education as a teacher. Yet, a nurse gets paid more than a teacher. Which is the more difficult job, and which has greater importance? Are they equally difficult and important? If so, then why aren't they paid roughly equal amounts.
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A nurse gets paid more than a teacher???? Nurses as a rule are the exact opposite of teachers, they are over worked and underpaid.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You make a good point and sound like a good teacher. It is the teachers union that has enabled such crappy teachers to teach that gives the word teacher a bad name, sorry to lump you in with this crowd.
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Problem is, there are crappy workers in any profession. There are crappy lawyers, doctors, etc. Teachers aren't the only profession where there are crappy workers.

People seem to forget that.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
A nurse gets paid more than a teacher???? Nurses as a rule are the exact opposite of teachers, they are over worked and underpaid.
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You do realize you are falling into something you should avoid, right? I will let you fall in, but just so you know, you are accepting a false premise from the start that they are putting out there.
 
zstep18 said:
I wouldn't put all teachers on a pedestal, but I would the profession itself on a pedestal.

A nurse requires the same amount of education as a teacher. Yet, a nurse gets paid more than a teacher. Which is the more difficult job, and which has greater importance? Are they equally difficult and important? If so, then why aren't they paid roughly equal amounts.
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Good points. I would put the profession of teacher up on a pedestal, absolutely. It's an incredibly important job. I am all for GOOD teachers being paid a very good salary, but I'm not for a blanket good salary for all teachers because all teachers don't deserve it. Just as, I'm sure, not all nurses deserve it.
 
Weird Russian Name said:
Try living on a teacher's salary from Ala-f'n-bama for a year then get back to us.
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Okay.

State Starting Salary Average Salary 10-year increase Salary Comfort Index

Connecticut $49,700 $69,165 31.3 1
Michigan $47,440 $63,940 24.6 2
Illinois $42,740 $64,509 34.8 3
Pennsylvania $47,780 $60,760 22.7 4
Ohio $41,670 $56,715 32.8 5
Massachusetts $50,880 $70,752 45.4 6
Georgia $41,640 $52,815 25.1 7
Texas $42,890 $48,638 26.8 8
Wyoming $45,750 $56,100 61.8 9
Nevada $40,060 $53,023 31.1 10
Indiana $38,670 $50,801 17.3 11
Washington $44,650 $52,926 25.6 12
Wisconsin $41,390 $54,195 28.7 13
California $56,950 $67,871 29.3 14
Virginia $43,440 $48,761 21.4 15
Delaware $45,880 $57,934 23.1 16
Idaho $39,870 $47,416 27.8 17
Oregon $46,930 $56,503 25.6 18
Louisiana $39,880 $49,006 45.8 19
Alabama $39,210 $47,803 28.8 20
Rhode Island $56,680 $60,923 25.7 21
New Jersey $54,580 $66,612 28.6 22
Minnesota $41,760 $53,680 27.2 23
Kentucky $35,640 $48,908 33.7 24
Tennessee $37,420 $45,891 22.6 25
Utah $38,570 $47,033 29.1 26
Maryland $50,680 $63,960 39.2 27
Kansas $37,160 $46,598 29.8 28
Oklahoma $35,880 $44,343 28.5 29
Iowa $35,240 $49,844 36.6 30
New Mexico $39,830 $46,888 38.8 31
Nebraska $34,190 $47,368 38.6 32
Florida $41,640 $45,732 19.6 33
New York $48,520 $72,708 41.2 34
North Carolina $37,050 $46,605 12.3 35
Colorado $38,090 $49,228 25.6 36
South Carolina $37,150 $47,050 24 37
Missouri $34,730 $45,321 28.6 38
West Virginia $34,410 $44,260 23.3 39
Mississippi $36,610 $41,975 31.4 40
Montana $35,880 $47,132 41.8 41
Arizona $36,880 $47,553 27.9 42
Alaska $51,950 $62,918 30.7 43
North Dakota $34,790 $44,807 45 44
New Hampshire $43,910 $52,792 37.8 45
Vermont $43,430 $50,141 31.1 46
Maine $38,770 $47,182 29.7 47
South Dakota $32,180 $39,850 31.7 48
Arkansas $40,220 $46,500 34.2 49
Hawaii $45,380 $55,063 37.5 50
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Source : National Education Association (nea.org), National Center for Education Statistics (nces.ed.gov), 2011

Teacher Salaries By State | Average Salaries For Teachers | Beginning Salaries For Teachers | Teacher Raises | TeacherPortal.com

Live on 48k a year in Alabama? Sure, not a problem.

Also, it's not even about that. If someone asked me if 10 dollars an hour for a McDonalds employee is underpaid or overpaid, I'd say overpaid as well - and that's less and even harder to live on.

Do you have anything that isn't subjective whining to add, or is this the best argument you can muster?
 
zstep18 said:
A nurse requires the same amount of education as a teacher. Yet, a nurse gets paid more than a teacher. Which is the more difficult job, and which has greater importance? Are they equally difficult and important? If so, then why aren't they paid roughly equal amounts.
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1. The actual education is not the same. The time you go to school may be very similar, but the difficulty level is immensely different.

2. Nurses get paid significantly more to reflect the supply/demand effect on today's economy. Hospitals and clinics all over are practically begging qualified nurses to come work for them, while 200 teachers may be in a knife fight for one job somewhere.

3. I will never think a teacher to have a more difficult job than a nurse.

People go into education when they cannot handle an analytical, logistical, or scientific field. I've seen education programs at universities I've attended, and they almost universally attract the dimmest bulbs in the bunch. For all the difficulty and relative importance of the education itself, you may as well have an art, music, or liberal arts degree.
 
NO VOTE
I am not qualified , do not know if teachers are underpaid or what !
IMO, many are underpaid to start off, but it should be this way..
Also, school administraters/supervisors are overpaid and here in PA we have far too many of them..Neither the GOP or the Dems will do anything about this !
 
I partly agree with Gipper. I believe nurses have a much more challenging curriculum at the college level than education majors.

However, I didn't go into education because I'm not smart enough to do anything else. I went into education because I love to teach kids to read and write.
 
Josie said:
However, I didn't go into education because I'm not smart enough to do anything else. I went into education because I love to teach kids to read and write.
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Well, I'll avoid a blanket statement and not say that all people who go into education are dimwits. Having said that, they're guilty until proven innocent in my book, as I've met more that follow the rule than the exception.

Also, the second part of that statement is also why there is a little less pay involved. I consider love of the position to be a part of the pay. A good teacher can take a career path that helps lead to self-actualization, can really make a difference, and is widely praised and defended.

I'm an accountant. If it wasn't for lawyers, I'd be the most despised profession out there. Nobody is going to fall to their knees and thank me for finding them a deduction on their taxes, or praise me on my ability to set up their corporate structure to minimize their payouts. I don't go to sleep at night with the feeling that I made a difference in someone's life. Therefore, I need a more basic form of compensation.
 
Gipper said:
Live on 48k a year in Alabama? Sure, not a problem.
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That's what I tell people about the town I work in. My school's average teacher salary is about $48K and the average salary of the non-teacher in the town I work in is MUCH less than that. Teachers here aren't poor at all.
 
Josie said:
That's what I tell people about the town I work in. My school's average teacher salary is about $48K and the average salary of the non-teacher in the town I work in is MUCH less than that. Teachers here aren't poor at all.
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Oh I agree. Teachers are hardly the martyrs that most of their own, and the general ignorant public, make them out to be. To hear most people talk of the profession, they're slaving away in the classrooms under constant threat of violence and bodily harm to help the downtrodden children, then come home to a studio apartment and a can of beans before falling asleep on a cot. This is the reason I generally have so much vitriol about your profession. Too many people foolishly think that teachers are the most important cog in the world, and that anyone with a degree in education should be literally showered in money, praise, and adulation for picking such a thankless, demanding, difficult job.

They ignore simple things, like supply/demand of the position on a macro level, as well as actual workload involved. God, teachers get SO many days off (paid) that it's not even funny.

These are the people I despise, and the ones I take up arms against - the ones with just a bunch of subjectivity, opinion, and rhetoric, and absolutely no sense or intelligence to speak of.
 
You guys shouldn't be applying market principles to government run systems. Earlier when I brought it in response to zstep I was fooling around knowing full well the market has no part in the question, but all the same, his principles are not measurable no matter where it actually takes place. I'm just sick of people applying some ridiculous standards on how people should be paid that they themselves can't figure out how they would be dealt with successfully and that is all he really did.

I was also eluding to the fact there is a fundamental problem with government systems that no one ever seems to bring up and yet everyone is always talking around it as if they know it is there. These questions have no answers and there is no system in place to solve them. This whole question revolves around some kind of rational system, but such a system is not present here. Rational economics is completely nonexistent from the formula and the possible abilities of government. That is to not say I don't enjoy reading all about trying to apply market principles here, but it makes no sense and it has no way to actually function.

You want to talk about what people in government jobs should be paid? Well good luck as what you will find is that you will have completely unfounded opinions all around.
 
Henrin said:
You guys shouldn't be applying market principles to government run systems.
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Yeah we should. Maybe, if we did, so many states wouldn't be going broke. California seemed to have learned its lesson...I hope.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Really? Because he and his positions have always been like this.
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That's kinda the point. People who genuinely hold such views usually slip into one or more contradictions now and then.

Guy's posts are TOO consistent.

It's like on TV cop dramas, when two suspects give the same story to the cops in two different interrogation rooms...with the exact same words.
 
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