If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody[W:56]

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Gina said:

I have no reason not to take her at her word. You have not presented any evidence that I should not.

Her article was published in the Georgetown Law Journal and therefore I think they believe her claims have credibility since it would not be good for them to tarnish their reputation by distributing work written by a woman making potentially false claims.

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Do you have any evidence that GLJ editors made any efforts to substantiate her accusations?

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Muhammed said:

Do you have any evidence that GLJ editors made any efforts to substantiate her accusations?

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If you're the one concerned that she is lying, I think the onus lies on you to put your own mind at rest. Do you have any evidence that she is lying? Her story of being raped isn't unusual or unbelievable. He was convicted of raping this woman in court, so what's your problem?

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

ChrisL said:

If you're the one concerned that she is lying, I think the onus lies on you to put your own mind at rest. Do you have any evidence that she is lying? Her story of being raped isn't unusual or unbelievable. He was convicted of raping this woman in court, so what's your problem?

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But he wasn't convicted. As stated in the article. As stated by Muhammed. I believe that is the problem.

ThePlayDrive said:

I just found out the following:


Now, I am thoroughly disgusted. I am disgusted because I don't think a woman should not be forced to interact with her rapist for the rest of her life. Moreover, I don't think a child should be, even partially, raised by someone so disgusting and who has an inherently toxic relationship with them and their mother.

Do you agree or disagree?

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A convicted rapist should not get to have any interaction with a child he helped make with rape without the consent of the child's mother.As part of his punishment he should still be forced to pay for child support regardless if the mother allows him to see the child or not.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

But he wasn't convicted. As stated in the article. As stated by Muhammed. I believe that is the problem.

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I just perused the article, and it doesn't state whether or not he was convicted. However, it does state that there was a trial, and they are referring to this man as the "rapist" which I believe would be libel or slander if he was found innocent of this crime. Especially considering the fact that it was a CNN story, I don't think they would ever refer to one who was found innocent as "the rapist" as they could get sued. I think it is safe to assume that this story is referring to a convicted rapist.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

ChrisL said:

I just perused the article, and it doesn't state whether or not he was convicted. However, it does state that there was a trial, and they are referring to this man as the "rapist" which I believe would be libel or slander if he was found innocent of this crime. Especially considering the fact that it was a CNN story, I don't think they would ever refer to one who was found innocent as "the rapist" as they could get sued. I think it is safe to assume that this story is referring to a convicted rapist.

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They do not mention his name, so it may be hard to slander.

You may think its safe to assume, but then again there is a reason there is an saying about assumptions, because your assumption is wrong.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

They do not mention his name, so it may be hard to slander.

You may think its safe to assume, but then again there is a reason there is an saying about assumptions, because your assumption is wrong.

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You're right, I just looked and found in a different article that he was never convicted. It's surprising that they refer to him as the rapist when he was not convicted. I wouldn't know what the right thing to do is in this situation. Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he is innocent, but there is also the possibility that she is making things up. It's a tough one.

Imagine You Were Raped. Got Pregnant. Then Your Rapist Sought Custody. | Mother Jones

"Prewitt, who now works as an attorney in Chicago, thought there was no court on earth that would allow her alleged rapist (he was never convicted) to have custody rights. But her lawyer informed Prewitt that, due to Missouri law, her case wasn't a slam dunk. The state wouldn't allow her to fight the custody request directly—the court would have to file a petition independently."

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

ChrisL said:

You're right, I just looked and found in a different article that he was never convicted. It's surprising that they refer to him as the rapist when he was not convicted. I wouldn't know what the right thing to do is in this situation. Just because he wasn't convicted doesn't mean he is innocent, but there is also the possibility that she is making things up. It's a tough one.

Imagine You Were Raped. Got Pregnant. Then Your Rapist Sought Custody. | Mother Jones

"Prewitt, who now works as an attorney in Chicago, thought there was no court on earth that would allow her alleged rapist (he was never convicted) to have custody rights. But her lawyer informed Prewitt that, due to Missouri law, her case wasn't a slam dunk. The state wouldn't allow her to fight the custody request directly—the court would have to file a petition independently."

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I prefer to side with innocence until proven guilt.

Some people prefer to side with their vagina. (not directed at you) :shrug:

My brother has been accused of rape and sexual abuse of his daughter (he has custody) multiple times by his ex-wife. I have seen first hand how men are treated by the courts for nothing more than an accusation with absolutely no proof.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

I prefer to side with innocence until proven guilt.

Some people prefer to side with their vagina. (not directed at you) :shrug:

My brother has been accused of rape and sexual abuse of his daughter (he has custody) multiple times by his ex-wife. I have seen first hand how men are treated by the courts for nothing more than an accusation with absolutely no proof.

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I know there are some really nasty women out there who do these things, especially when custody battles are concerned. Part of the problem is that, a lot of times, it is very difficult to prove a rape occurred. It doesn't mean it never happened though. I prefer to side with the safety of the child. Both parents are secondary to me, as the child is defenseless, but again I'm not sure what I would do, and I'm glad I don't have to deal with such issues.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

My brother has been accused of rape and sexual abuse of his daughter (he has custody) multiple times by his ex-wife. I have seen first hand how men are treated by the courts for nothing more than an accusation with absolutely no proof.

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That is so sad. The courts, though, have to immediately take the side of the child. Justice may (or sometimes may not) come later. Hopefully, it does -- and when it does? Mama ought to go to freakin' jail. That revenge/manipulation tactic is just pure evil. Personally, I hope these women go straight to hell.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

MaggieD said:

That is so sad. The courts, though, have to immediately take the side of the child. Justice may (or sometimes may not) come later. Hopefully, it does -- and when it does? Mama ought to go to freakin' jail. That revenge/manipulation tactic is just pure evil. Personally, I hope these women go straight to hell.

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Yes, it's women like that who give ALL women a bad name. They should definitely be prosecuted if they are found to be lying.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

MaggieD said:

That is so sad. The courts, though, have to immediately take the side of the child. Justice may (or sometimes may not) come later. Hopefully, it does -- and when it does? Mama ought to go to freakin' jail. That revenge/manipulation tactic is just pure evil. Personally, I hope these women go straight to hell.

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She was booted from Army basic because of the rape charge. He was in jail over the holidays on her word alone. She is certified crazy. She pays no child support, and yet has all visitation rights. They treat visitation and child support payment as separate issues. The State(/s) have funded her accusations. He is a 100% disabled Iraq veteran, and has had to pay tens of thousands to fund his own defense.

The whole issue of family courts and the extreme and blatant discrimination raises great contempt for me against our 'Justice' system.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

She was booted from Army basic because of the rape charge. He was in jail over the holidays on her word alone. She is certified crazy. She pays no child support, and yet has all visitation rights. They treat visitation and child support payment as separate issues. The State(/s) have funded her accusations. He is a 100% disabled Iraq veteran, and has had to pay tens of thousands to fund his own defense.

The whole issue of family courts and the extreme and blatant discrimination raises great contempt for me against our 'Justice' system.

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That is terrible and a really good reason to live together and really get to know someone before you get married and have children (not talking about your brother because I have no idea, just generally). This only represents a small number of women though.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Van Basten said:

There's a huge problem with this line of thinking.

Numerous times there have been men who were wrongly accused of rape. I don't think I need to continue for you get where I'm going with that.

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I agree but with modern DNA testing, CCTV when the rapist is caught on camera kidnapping a little girl, etc. then the level of certainty is 100%.

The fact is forcible rape, arguably one of the most hideous crimes one can commit is also the least likely to be punished. Most rape victims never report the crime to authorities. Of those who do, the burden of proof is so hard to reach under the conditions of no witnesses and her word against his, many are never prosecuted. Of the one that are, many of the perpetrators are acquitted. Statistically if someone wants to get away with a crime, rape offers the an overwhelming likelihood of never having to face justice. At least not human justice. I don't think people ultimately get away with anything but with human justice examples can be made and hopefully offer a deterrent.

Meanwhile, we have the national sex offender registry that is a cruel joke filled mostly with people who fooled around with their underage 17 going on 30 girlfriend or couldn't hold it any more and took a leak behind a tree mixed in with a small percentage of forcible rapists. I'm not saying fooling around with a 17 going on 30 girlfriend id okay, its not. I just don't think those people are dangerous threats to public safety like someone who kidnaps and forcibly rapes someone or molests a child. Then the crimes written in legalese so nobody except lawyers know what they actually did. I've got a friend on it who when he was in Iraq apparently patted a female sailor on the butt and for I think 10 more years his neighbors and in fact all of America is being warned on a government website that he committed something called "Indecent Assault".

Anyway, I'm off on a tangent. If you know any forcible rape victims if they're willing to talk about it I'm sure you'll learn it was probably the most life altering, emotionally tormenting and devastating event of their lives often affecting their ability to function normally in wide range of areas and tragically most perpetrators get away with it.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

ChrisL said:

That is terrible and a really good reason to live together and really get to know someone before you get married and have children (not talking about your brother because I have no idea, just generally). This only represents a small number of women though.

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He married a stripper. Because to a young HM in Pendleton, strippers are cool.

Bull****. Any lawyer will tell a woman about the 'nuclear option'. It is not a small number. And women rights groups will tell them its justified for getting back at years of repression.

Does any realize what they 'force' men to go through to prove they are not a sexual predator on minors?

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

He married a stripper. Because to a young HM in Pendleton, strippers are cool.

Bull****. Any lawyer will tell a woman about the 'nuclear option'. It is not a small number. And women rights groups will tell them its justified for getting back at years of repression.

Does any realize what they 'force' men to go through to prove they are not a sexual predator on minors?

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Are you saying that you think MOST women do would do this? Maybe your views are skewed because of your own bad personal experiences with women, but I can tell you that I know LOTS of women too, and they would never do something like that.

As far as your question, no.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

What the hell is the difference between you saying that and me saying . . . a lot of men are rapists and child molesters. Realize that it's individual PEOPLE who are jerks; it is not something that is limited to one gender or the other.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

ChrisL said:

Are you saying that you think MOST women do would do this? Maybe your views are skewed because of your own bad personal experiences with women, but I can tell you that I know LOTS of women too, and they would never do something like that.

As far as your question, no.

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I have had great experiences with women. I don't think most women do it. I think most women are advised to do it. I think most women are vindictive when they grab the children and leave, and are especially vindictive if they didn't manage to get the children. My views are skewed, every horrible divorce I have yet witnessed has pretty much ended similarly.

Me and my wife just shake our heads. We figure if the numb nuts would think about things before having kids, then this stupid **** wouldn't happen.

What is a psychosexual evaluation? - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News

They strap sensors to your penis, and then flash images at you. They measures your brains response to the flash of child porn.

That only difference in that story is my brother never let her take his daughter. Had he, it could have ended up the same. We she made this last one and I had custody, who knows it could have. He has 100% disability for PTSD.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Sorry to derail. But it does highlight what we are potentially including when we talk about rape. And considering there is no conviction or proof, what we could be potentially talking about with the OP article.

So in light of that, are we speaking about legitimate rape? Or the articles accusations of rape?

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

I have had great experiences with women. I don't think most women do it. I think most women are advised to do it. I think most women are vindictive when they grab the children and leave, and are especially vindictive if they didn't manage to get the children. My views are skewed, every horrible divorce I have yet witnessed has pretty much ended similarly.

Me and my wife just shake our heads. We figure if the numb nuts would think about things before having kids, then this stupid **** wouldn't happen.

What is a psychosexual evaluation? - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News

They strap sensors to your penis, and then flash images at you. They measures your brains response to the flash of child porn.

That only difference in that story is my brother never let her take his daughter. Had he, it could have ended up the same. We she made this last one and I had custody, who knows it could have. He has 100% disability for PTSD.

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And I could sit here and tell you horror stories that I've heard from other women about their spouses and boyfriends too. That doesn't mean anything, especially when you only get one side of the story. There are just as many male jerks as female jerks. Men are also advised by attorneys. There are many factors taken into consideration during divorces and custody battles. Sure, women usually end up with the children if they are fit because people think it is better for a child to be with the mom, probably because of nurturing reasons. You say that your brother has custody, so in this case it turned out in his favor and the system apparently worked the way it should.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

ChrisL said:

And I could sit here and tell you horror stories that I've heard from other women about their spouses and boyfriends too. That doesn't mean anything, especially when you only get one side of the story. There are just as many male jerks as female jerks. Men are also advised by attorneys. There are many factors taken into consideration during divorces and custody battles. Sure, women usually end up with the children if they are fit because people think it is better for a child to be with the mom, probably because of nurturing reasons. You say that your brother has custody, so in this case it turned out in his favor and the system apparently worked the way it should.

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It does mean something when by default one side is believed over another. And the side is chosen based on gender. Nurturing reasons is insufficient to satisfy the required equal protection.

It hasn't turned out in his favor. He has had to go through horrible and prolonged court battles, face humiliating public accusations and results of embarassing tests. He has paid thousands for his own defense. Had he not paid the enormous cost of a decent lawyer, he would have lost custody.

While her accusations are State funded, she has had zero consequences for her accusations. Just like the writer of the article.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

It does mean something when by default one side is believed over another. And the side is chosen based on gender.

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But that isn't what happened in your brother's case. I don't think that it is default that one side is believed over the other. Rape has to be proven. They don't throw men in jail just because a women says "he raped me." Sure, some people are wrongfully convicted sometimes. That is going to happen sometimes, unless you want to do away with a justice system altogether.

I can agree with you about custody though. Both parents should be looked at as the people they are and not their gender.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

ChrisL said:

But that isn't what happened in your brother's case. I don't think that it is default that one side is believed over the other. Rape has to be proven. They don't throw men in jail just because a women says "he raped me." Sure, some people are wrongfully convicted sometimes. That is going to happen sometimes, unless you want to do away with a justice system altogether.

I can agree with you about custody though. Both parents should be looked at as the people they are and not their gender.

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No that is what happened. He just got a lawyer to defend himself, at an enormous cost. It is a fact it is by default. And in the instance of a rape accusation you will in fact be tossed into jail. Try it. Then with the protection order shes got, go and try to get your kids.

It has nothing to do with conviction.

Seriously, look into it. Its a ****ed up system.

ThePlayDrive said:

I just found out the following:


Now, I am thoroughly disgusted. I am disgusted because I don't think a woman should not be forced to interact with her rapist for the rest of her life. Moreover, I don't think a child should be, even partially, raised by someone so disgusting and who has an inherently toxic relationship with them and their mother.

Do you agree or disagree?

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He should be granted visitation rights at the cemetery in which is buried following his execution.

Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

Aberration said:

No that is what happened. He just got a lawyer to defend himself, at an enormous cost. It is a fact it is by default. And in the instance of a rape accusation you will in fact be tossed into jail. Try it. Then with the protection order shes got, go and try to get your kids.

It has nothing to do with conviction.

Seriously, look into it. Its a ****ed up system.

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I know the system is screwy. I will look into it more, but I have to say, just like a LOT of crimes, when accused you go to jail and then bail out or wait for court. That is not unusual.

In this particular case, since the man was never convicted, it is definitely questionable. Although, I can't see this woman going out and making a huge deal out of this if it was all a made up story. Not impossible though.