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Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

Are Ronmey's undisclosed tax returns equal in importance to Obama's college records?

  • Yes. Obama's college records are of equal value to Romney's tax returns

    Votes: 15 22.4%

  • No. Its just the best political come back the GOP can come up with under the circumstances

    Votes: 29 43.3%

  • Neither tax or college records matter in the election.

    Votes: 17 25.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 9.0%
  • Total voters
    67
MaggieD said:
I hate to sound partisan, but I will nonetheless:

First, if it is true that a candidate's tax returns are "a matter of national importance," then, by all means, make that a law...for every single person running for national office. Maybe that's one way we can broom-clean Congress. Ha!

Second, people with Romney's kind of wealth don't generally cheat on taxes. They know the consequences. Their taxes are prepared by professionals whose licenses and professional reputations are on the line.

Third, all the left wants to be able to do is berate Romney for our tax code. He didn't vote for it. He had nothing to do with its implementation. It's not his "fault" if he didn't pay enough taxes to suit the American people.

Obama's college transcripts. Why is there such a big deal about those? Well, I don't know. Ask him. But I suspect it would show one or both of the following: that he lied on his college application; that the courses he took in college have little to do with democracy as we know it and everything to do with socialism.

Now. Which do you think the American people have a right to know??
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Bravo! I wouldn't be opposed to everybody's financial records being public.

I think with Mitt Romney there are however some unusual circumstances including off shore bank accounts that many people rightly or wrongly assume are set up to maintain financial holdings outside of the jurisdiction of US regulators and monitoring.

Secondly, there is a list of creative loopholes many of the very wealthy jump through in order to minimize their tax liability; legal but many voters might want to know about. For example, I heard a report that a wealthy governor of one state before he became governor would close high dollar business deals in his private jet over international waters to avoid paying state sales taxes. If teachers, firemen and police officers are being laid off due to the government not having enough money, some voters might want to know things like that in determining whether that candidate has the best interests of the people of their state. Plus the talk lately of whether or not tax amnesty was ever needed.
 
Smeagol said:
Bravo! I wouldn't be opposed to everybody's financial records being public.

I think with Mitt Romney there are however some unusual circumstances including off shore bank accounts that many people rightly or wrongly assume are set up to maintain financial holdings outside of the jurisdiction of US regulators and monitoring.

I'm glad you agree with me about requiring all candidates running for office having to disclose. I'm all for it.

Secondly, there is a list of creative loopholes many of the very wealthy jump through in order to minimize their tax liability; legal but many voters might want to know about. For example, I heard a report that a wealthy governor of one state before he became governor would close high dollar business deals in his private jet over international waters to avoid paying state sales taxes. If teachers, firemen and police officers are being laid off due to the government not having enough money, some voters might want to know things like that in determining whether that candidate has the best interests of the people of their state. Plus the talk lately of whether or not tax amnesty was ever needed.
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Of one thing I am certain: Romney jumped through every legal loophole he and his advisers could find. I know that as well as I know my name. Why? Because I do the same darned thing. Now, that governor? That sounds like one helluvan urban legend to me.
 
MaggieD said:
Of one thing I am certain: Romney jumped through every legal loophole he and his advisers could find. I know that as well as I know my name. Why? Because I do the same darned thing. Now, that governor? That sounds like one helluvan urban legend to me.
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Not uncommon of high dollar transactions among the super-rich. And like you, If it were me I'd do the exact same thing. That said, many average Americans have no clue about this legal tax avoidance strategy and with some, once they hear of it, its so shocking they assume it must be an urban myth.

Some companies can sign documents on international waters, at a certain altitude in the air, or cross state lines to avoid paying tax.
How Businesses Bank on Tax Loopholes | Business Pundit
 
Smeagol said:
There has been much in the news lately about Mitt Romney's tax returns that he won't release. Many of his supporters claim its unnecessary, irrelevant and then cite President Obama's undisclosed college records as presumably an equal example of their opposition not being completely transparent while holding Romney to a double standard. I'm probably the most objective person I know on political matters if I must say so myself. I think both Obama and Romney have something to hide. However, I don't think Obama's college records are anywhere near as relevant a campaign issue as Mitt Romney's taxes for a variety of reasons. My question is do you think President Obama's college transcripts are equally relevant and an important factor to consider in the 2012 election as Mitt Romney's undisclosed tax returns?
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No, they aren't equally relevant. College records, at most, describe what a person was like 20-30 years ago. They are pretty irrelevant. Tax records from the last ten years show a more recent picture of the candidate which makes them more relevant.
 
Smeagol said:
Not uncommon of high dollar transactions among the super-rich. And like you, If it were me I'd do the exact same thing. That said, many average Americans have no clue about this legal tax avoidance strategy and with some, once they hear of it, its so shocking they assume it must be an urban myth.

Some companies can sign documents on international waters, at a certain altitude in the air, or cross state lines to avoid paying tax.
How Businesses Bank on Tax Loopholes | Business Pundit
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Thank you very much for this link. I really had no idea our tax codes were that screwed up. I was especially interested in the accelerated depreciation used by Pepco to eliminate taxes. I imagine if we took a look at CEO salaries, that's where the tax savings ended up.

A majority in both houses shouldn't be wasted. It makes me nuts that the party who preaches about this from morning 'til night didn't use their majority power to close these loopholes. Hell! I'da voted for 'em if they had.
 
OhIsee.Then said:
It's clear from Romney and his team that there is nothing in Romney's tax records that are an issue for anybody. It sure would shut up Obama if they were released.
Click to expand...

So lets see them in that case.
 
Smeagol said:
There has been much in the news lately about Mitt Romney's tax returns that he won't release. Many of his supporters claim its unnecessary, irrelevant and then cite President Obama's undisclosed college records as presumably an equal example of their opposition not being completely transparent while holding Romney to a double standard. I'm probably the most objective person I know on political matters if I must say so myself. I think both Obama and Romney have something to hide. However, I don't think Obama's college records are anywhere near as relevant a campaign issue as Mitt Romney's taxes for a variety of reasons. My question is do you think President Obama's college transcripts are equally relevant and an important factor to consider in the 2012 election as Mitt Romney's undisclosed tax returns?
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Since a major part of this election is about the future spending/taxation of the Federal Government yeah I think it's relevant. Romney is proposing tax cuts to individuals like himself. If he's getting reamed over taxes and in need of tax breaks I'm not sure why he doesn't provide his tax returns.
 
It's funny how a certain Ivy League lawyer who has been making fallacious assumptions, for the past 2 years, on Obama's college records from 20 years ago, now finds Romney's undisclosed taxes for the past 5-10 years irrelevant. If only this election weren't about the economy, I'm sure his tune would change quite radically and he'd see no problem with Romney releasing his taxes. Here, I'll make an assumption based on the same amount of evidence this poster claims to have.

"Romney is rich, therefor he hasn't paid taxes".

Evidence for this claim? Zero. But that's okay. Because I pay taxes too and that makes me an authority on them.
 
code1211 said:
Amnesty appears on a tax return? What line is that?
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How Romney's Swiss accounts were closed would be on his tax forms. How he got $100 million in his IRA will also be there.
 
MaggieD said:
Thank you very much for this link. I really had no idea our tax codes were that screwed up. I was especially interested in the accelerated depreciation used by Pepco to eliminate taxes. I imagine if we took a look at CEO salaries, that's where the tax savings ended up.

A majority in both houses shouldn't be wasted. It makes me nuts that the party who preaches about this from morning 'til night didn't use their majority power to close these loopholes. Hell! I'da voted for 'em if they had.
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MaggieD, I don’t think this is actually new to you. Just the Cayman Island corporations are essentially just a PO Box with a local that will collect the mail, forward your mail and post your mail for your PO Box Corporation. I’ve posted about this several times. It’s even been on a few news programs over the years. Glad you have been informed now. If you want to change the laws to cover this it’s difficult for more reasons than you’d think. For example write a law that covers both a US business could have a division in Japan where it pays their high taxes, or Cayman with no taxes.
 
Taxers...birthers...transcripters...

None of it is important.

Instead, look to the public record of accomplishments of each candidate. If you do, you'll have more than enough factual information upon which to make your voting decision.
 
Redress said:
While there are some similarities, the differences far outweigh the similarities. However, the one similarity that is most important is that there is no obligation to release either.
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Disagree, even if I like your argument.
A man running for office - being a public servant - must be more open about all things.
Probably just me, but I advocate complete openness....but then , I'd receive few votes...
But, Romney should receive even fewer votes !
13% on his millions
11% on my thousands
Is this right ?
Or fair ?
 
earthworm said:
Disagree, even if I like your argument.
A man running for office - being a public servant - must be more open about all things.
Probably just me, but I advocate complete openness....but then , I'd receive few votes...
But, Romney should receive even fewer votes !
13% on his millions
11% on my thousands
Is this right ?
Or fair ?
Click to expand...

Soooo...

Do you think you should be paying 13%? Or do you think Romney should be paying 11%?

You know...just to be fair...
 
earthworm said:
Disagree, even if I like your argument.
A man running for office - being a public servant - must be more open about all things.
Probably just me, but I advocate complete openness....but then , I'd receive few votes...
But, Romney should receive even fewer votes !
13% on his millions
11% on my thousands
Is this right ?
Or fair ?
Click to expand...

There is a difference between obligation and having no repercussions. If a candidate decides not to release information that voters want, voters may choose not to vote for him. I think it would be wrong to require those things by law.
 
Mycroft said:
Taxers...birthers...transcripters...

None of it is important.

Instead, look to the public record of accomplishments of each candidate. If you do, you'll have more than enough factual information upon which to make your voting decision.
Click to expand...

Yeah... bragging about running an event just slightly more relevant than the Special Olympics doesnt rank all that higher than community activist.
 
Hatuey said:
Yeah... bragging about running an event just slightly more relevant than the Special Olympics doesnt rank all that higher than community activist.
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LOL!!!

Did you just equate running the 2002 Olympic Winter Games with being a community activist??? REALLY???

Dude...I'm speechless!!
 
MaggieD said:
Second, people with Romney's kind of wealth don't generally cheat on taxes. They know the consequences. Their taxes are prepared by professionals whose licenses and professional reputations are on the line
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You sure about that?

UBS netted 5,000+ uber-wealthy Americans.

KPMG tax scandal was sold by KPMG with the full knowledge of the partners and managers that it was flat out illegal. A near half billion dollar fine was their punishment. Their savings grace was the fact that the Fed thought leaving only 3 big accounting firms would be bad for the market.
 
iguanaman said:
How Romney's Swiss accounts were closed would be on his tax forms. How he got $100 million in his IRA will also be there.
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No. That would be on his FBAR. The new foreign asset disclosure report is new for 2011. Meaning if he closed them in the past, he didn't have to disclose explictly that he closed them. You could infer if you got his FBARs that he closed them by comparing the accounts from separate years. FBAR is technically not part of your tax forms.

Furthermore, that $100 million, that's fair market value? If so, buying shares in carried interest wouldn't go on his tax forms either.
 
Mycroft said:
Taxers...birthers...transcripters...

None of it is important.

Instead, look to the public record of accomplishments of each candidate. If you do, you'll have more than enough factual information upon which to make your voting decision.
Click to expand...

So if Romney was caught in an international tax shelter scandal, that wouldn't be an issue for you?
 
Smeagol said:
Not uncommon of high dollar transactions among the super-rich. And like you, If it were me I'd do the exact same thing. That said, many average Americans have no clue about this legal tax avoidance strategy and with some, once they hear of it, its so shocking they assume it must be an urban myth.

Some companies can sign documents on international waters, at a certain altitude in the air, or cross state lines to avoid paying tax.
How Businesses Bank on Tax Loopholes | Business Pundit
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, some of those just don't make sense. Signing a contract outside of the US doesn't mean you don't pay taxes on the sale or transfer of assets out or into the US merely because the ink dried out over the water.

And I see no reason why Google should pay taxes on sales that are not related to US activities. What did Google use from the US to generate such sales?
 
No, they are not equally relevant.

I think both are distraction issues, but taxes could be a matter of legality. They are at least potentially relevant, if nothing else, even if I still roll my eyes every time it comes up.

But asking the college records of a 51-year-old man? Really? Even if he had D's, what the hell does it matter at this point?

I'm a radically different student just 5 years down the line in college than I was in high school. My performance in high school has jack to do with my performance in college because I'm a very different person with a very different set of motivators. Most admissions boards understood that.

If it's obvious that my performance at 17 is not an indicator of my performance at 23, then what the hell does how Obama did in college 3 decades ago have to do with his presidency now?
 
Answer me this:

What matters more in terms of honesty of a candidate:
What their transcripts show three decades or if their taxes show an illegal tax shelter three years ago?

I seriously doubt Romney will release 2008~2009. That's the key prime years for tax shelter disclosure.
 
Mycroft said:
LOL!!!

Did you just equate running the 2002 Olympic Winter Games with being a community activist??? REALLY???

Dude...I'm speechless!!
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying their relevancy is quite close to nil in regards to how I judge politics. Doesn't stop Romney fans from mentally masturbating at the thought of their idol running an exercise in ethnocentricity. I guess given the history of the Mormon church, running an event where mostly "white" rich countries are involved would seem like the right job to brag about. ;)
 
Hatuey said:
No. I'm saying their relevancy is quite close to nil in regards to how I judge politics. Doesn't stop Romney fans from mentally masturbating at the thought of their idol running an exercise in ethnocentricity. I guess given the history of the Mormon church, running an event where mostly "white" rich countries are involved would seem like the right job to brag about. ;)
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Ahhh...I see. No problem, then.

I don't have your religious or racial biases, so I can't comment on your opinions about the Mormon Church or whether there is any racial favoritism in the Winter Olympics (kind of doubt that one, though). I look at Romney's record regarding the Olympics as a successful endeavor to rescue, revive and successfully pull off a massive world-wide sporting event. It was really quite an accomplishment.

Now, comparing that accomplishment to Obama's successes as a community activist? Given the fact that I don't really know WHAT Obama accomplished during that period, I'm having difficulty here. Maybe the best thing about his time as a community activist was the education and connections he received in the Chicago political machine. We can be sure those were instrumental in his ability to get where he is today.
 
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