Would You Vote a Woman into Presidential Office?

AGENT J · Sep 11, 2012

Tigger said:
It's more than just my own. These Traditions are more common than you might believe. Many don't go to the same level that my family and I do, but a large number embrace at least parts of the philosophy. If you expect Logic and Reason to be the only determining factors in life you're going to find yourself sorely lacking at the end of your life for not having Faith in anything.

Well your OPINION about how common you think they are is meaningless and yes Im a NORMAL person who respects logic, facts and reason because thats how honest intelligent realistic people operate

if they didnt we would still be in the dark ages and burning people at the stake

you probably long for those times LOL

but like I said the most important thing is that you fully admit its illogical, irrational, unrealistic and not supported by anything intelligent or factual.

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

Objective-J said:
Well your OPINION about how common you think they are is meaningless and yes Im a NORMAL person who respects logic, facts and reason because thats how honest intelligent realistic people operate

Look at it this way.... 15 years ago the number of homeschooling families in the United States was relatively low. The idea was considered an aberation by the majority of educators. Now it's a growing institution that must be taken seriously by educators and education overseers throughout the nation. Many of those people are the same type of people that I'm talking about. The Traditionalist society exists in the same sort of shadows that the homeschooling society does. In fact they overlap to a large degree.

Objective-J said:
if they didnt we would still be in the dark ages and burning people at the stake you probably long for those times LOL.

I do believe those were better times, philosophically, than what we have today.

Objective-J said:
but like I said the most important thing is that you fully admit its illogical, irrational, unrealistic and not supported by anything intelligent or factual.

No I don't. I simply comprehend that there is no arguement that I'm going to put forth that you're going to listen to, so I'm not going to invest my time and energy in beating my head against a wall.

Camlon · Sep 12, 2012

Of course I would vote for a women who shared my views. I am happy to see any politican share my view. They all seem to be too far right or too far left for me. The ones who are centrists tend to be corrupt or focused on the wrong issues.

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

Camlon said:
Of course I would vote for a women who shared my views. I am happy to see any politican share my view. They all seem to be too far right or too far left for me. The ones who are centrists tend to be corrupt or focused on the wrong issues.

Okay, so not only are you willing to vote for a woman, but you're willing to vote for either a man or a woman who has no guiding Principles, Values, or Morals to speak of; since that is how Centrists are truly defined.

maquiscat · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
Okay, so not only are you willing to vote for a woman, but you're willing to vote for either a man or a woman who has no guiding Principles, Values, or Morals to speak of; since that is how Centrists are truly defined.

They are guided by Centrist principles, values and morals. Simply because someone's principles, values and morals are not your own does not mean they are not real. And for that matter one can hold certain personal principles, values and morals that are not the same with their political ones if some of their higher held ones override the lower ones. For example: My highest principle is that of Freedom. To be able to do as you will as long as no true harm comes to others, unless they consent to it. So why my personal principle may be that one should not work on the Sabbath, I also recognize that various religions and even denominations within a given religion have various Sabbaths. Why should there be a law against working on Sunday when the Jewish Sabbath goes from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday? For that matter why should the Atheist be forced to not work on that day when it's not a part of his beliefs. No harm comes to a Christian if someone else works on a day they are not allowed to by their principles and beliefs. So my personal principle of freedom overrides my personal moral/belief/whatever of the Sabbath in regards to other people.

Camlon · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
Okay, so not only are you willing to vote for a woman, but you're willing to vote for either a man or a woman who has no guiding Principles, Values, or Morals to speak of; since that is how Centrists are truly defined.

Centrists are not centrist on all issues. It just means they are not as right wing as the Republican party, and not as left wing as the democratic party. You can be against public unions, against class warfare, but also be in favour of higher taxes, and gay marriage and still be a centrist. Centrists are not people who have no political beliefs.

Some people may describe me as a centrist/slightly conservative in America, and that also seem to be the case in New Zealand. However in Sweden I would be regarded as a far right extremist. It is all relative to where you live. There is nothing wrong with voting for a centrists, as they are just centrist relative to American politics and they are not centrist on every single issue.

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

maquiscat said:
They are guided by Centrist principles, values and morals. Simply because someone's principles, values and morals are not your own does not mean they are not real. And for that matter one can hold certain personal principles, values and morals that are not the same with their political ones if some of their higher held ones override the lower ones.

I agree that there ARE sets of Morals and Values other than my own. There are two sets in the world.... Conservatism and Liberalism. Anything else cannot, by definition by Principles, Morals or Values because anything else can only be an amalgamation of parts of the two sets of values and therefore has no actual Morals, Values, or Principles to it at all. These things are 100%/0% equations. There is no 90% Conservative or 25% Liberal. You are either 100% on board with the set of Values or you really don't believe in anything.

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

Camlon said:
Centrists are not centrist on all issues. It just means they are not as right wing as the Republican party, and not as left wing as the democratic party. You can be against unions, against class warfare, but also be in favour of higher taxes, and gay marriage and still be a centrist. Centrists are not people who have no political beliefs.

Some people may describe me as a centrist/slightly conservative in America, and that also seem to be the case in New Zealand. However in Sweden I would be regarded as a far right extremist. It is all relative to where you live. There is nothing wrong with voting for a centrists, as they are just the centrist of American politics and they are not centrist on every single issue.

Exactly. The lack of a consistant ideology and philosophy is what tells me that Centrists don't actually believe in anything. I'm a Conservative. The minute that I begin to even CONSIDER a non-Conservative philosophy or ideology I am no longer a Conservative at all.

I tend to disagree on the relativity arguement. Then again I would also suggest that there is a Universal Morality that exists, which many people do not agree with either.

There is most definitely something wrong with voting for ANYONE who is not a complete and total Conservative. At least so far as I'm concerned.

Jetboogieman · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
Exactly. The lack of a consistant ideology and philosophy is what tells me that Centrists don't actually believe in anything. I'm a Conservative. The minute that I begin to even CONSIDER a non-Conservative philosophy or ideology I am no longer a Conservative at all.

I tend to disagree on the relativity arguement. Then again I would also suggest that there is a Universal Morality that exists, which many people do not agree with either.

There is most definitely something wrong with voting for ANYONE who is not a complete and total Conservative. At least so far as I'm concerned.

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

Which is why I prefer these three individuals....

zstep18 · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
Exactly. The lack of a consistant ideology and philosophy is what tells me that Centrists don't actually believe in anything. I'm a Conservative. The minute that I begin to even CONSIDER a non-Conservative philosophy or ideology I am no longer a Conservative at all.

I tend to disagree on the relativity arguement. Then again I would also suggest that there is a Universal Morality that exists, which many people do not agree with either.

There is most definitely something wrong with voting for ANYONE who is not a complete and total Conservative. At least so far as I'm concerned.

That's hard to do considering that the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are somewhat meaningless. The terms change all the time.

So by conservative, what exactly do you mean?

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

zstep18 said:
That's hard to do considering that the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are somewhat meaningless. The terms change all the time.

So by conservative, what exactly do you mean?

The most recent one I can find in US Federal Government history would be President Andrew Jackson. I'm talking about Isolationist, Nationalist, Traditionalist individuals who walk their talk and are more interested in Right and Wrong than in what people want, or think they want.

zstep18 · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
The most recent one I can find in US Federal Government history would be President Andrew Jackson. I'm talking about Isolationist, Nationalist, Traditionalist individuals who walk their talk and are more interested in Right and Wrong than in what people want, or think they want.

What about someone who sees freedom and liberty as the highest values? Aren't those higher values than simply the terms, liberal and conservative?

Jetboogieman · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
Which is why I prefer these three individuals....

Which makes sense since all of them were defeated, like your viewpoints.

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

zstep18 said:
What about someone who sees freedom and liberty as the highest values? Aren't those higher values than simply the terms, liberal and conservative?

Nope. A true Conservative understands that Freedom and Liberty are PRIVILEGES, which should only be available to those who have PROVEN an ability to maintain actual Principles in their life.

zstep18 · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
Nope. A true Conservative understands that Freedom and Liberty are PRIVILEGES, which should only be available to those who have PROVEN an ability to maintain actual Principles in their life.

Where in this history of conservative thinking, has a "true" conservative said that freedom and liberty are privileges? Name a "true" conservative you said this, besides yourself of course.

TheGirlNextDoor · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
I agree that there ARE sets of Morals and Values other than my own. There are two sets in the world.... Conservatism and Liberalism. Anything else cannot, by definition by Principles, Morals or Values because anything else can only be an amalgamation of parts of the two sets of values and therefore has no actual Morals, Values, or Principles to it at all. These things are 100%/0% equations. There is no 90% Conservative or 25% Liberal. You are either 100% on board with the set of Values or you really don't believe in anything.

Oh really? Some things by definition are completely black and white. However, for the most part, life and politics especially are most certainly not black and white. A person that holds some conservative viewpoints and some liberal viewpoints (as defined by American standards) most certainly DOES have morals, values and principles. You say that a person who doesn't claim to be 100% of one or the other doesn't believe in anything? I strongly disagree with you.

Even when I was a GOP member, I was not 100% 'on board' with their entire platform. I was in agreement with the majority, but not all. What you've described in your quoted post above, unless I'm mistaken - and at which time an apology will be forthcoming - is that you believe in the 'towing the party line' at any cost.

Is this what you are saying, or did I miss something in your post.

spud_meister · Sep 12, 2012

TheGirlNextDoor said:
Is this what you are saying, or did I miss something in your post.

You missed the fact that Tigger isn't rational.

Fiddytree · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
I agree that there ARE sets of Morals and Values other than my own. There are two sets in the world.... Conservatism and Liberalism. Anything else cannot, by definition by Principles, Morals or Values because anything else can only be an amalgamation of parts of the two sets of values and therefore has no actual Morals, Values, or Principles to it at all. These things are 100%/0% equations. There is no 90% Conservative or 25% Liberal. You are either 100% on board with the set of Values or you really don't believe in anything.

Then why on earth would you think a democrat (not the political party) like Andrew Jackson believes in what you believe?

earthworm · Sep 12, 2012

Five percent of us are living in the Dark Ages. Not too bad, really...
Of course, the people here at DP are above average , socially...
IMO, the reason we trail Europe, socially, is that they have "been around" for millenia while we as Americans have only been here for several hundred years...
And, IMO, due to the break, we are fearful, and overly conservative...
They (Europeans, and Asians) have had much more uninterrupted time to develop culture and civilization..
We may never catch up...

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

TheGirlNextDoor said:
Oh really? Some things by definition are completely black and white. However, for the most part, life and politics especially are most certainly not black and white. A person that holds some conservative viewpoints and some liberal viewpoints (as defined by American standards) most certainly DOES have morals, values and principles. You say that a person who doesn't claim to be 100% of one or the other doesn't believe in anything? I strongly disagree with you.

EVERYTHING in life is Black and White, if you actually have principles. Now, if you're willing to toss your purported principles aside every time they're the least bit inconvenient (as most Americans do), then you really don't believe in anything. You CANNOT be a Fiscal Conservative and yet claim to be a Social Liberal. The guiding principles of both Conservative and Liberal philosophy do not stop at the Fiscal/Social border and never have.

TheGirlNextDoor said:
Even when I was a GOP member, I was not 100% 'on board' with their entire platform. I was in agreement with the majority, but not all. What you've described in your quoted post above, unless I'm mistaken - and at which time an apology will be forthcoming - is that you believe in the 'towing the party line' at any cost.

Is this what you are saying, or did I miss something in your post.

Not really. First off, I don't believe that we should have Political Parties. I believe they should be outlawed. What I am suggesting is more the opposite of "Towing the Party Line". What I believe in is Walking the Talk. Living by the Principle, even when it is inconvenient, unpopular, or hazardous to one's life/lifestyle. If you don't believe in something enough to have it be something you embrace in your entire life, then I don't think you really believe in it.

Tigger · Sep 12, 2012

earthworm said:
Five percent of us are living in the Dark Ages. Not too bad, really...
Of course, the people here at DP are above average , socially...
IMO, the reason we trail Europe, socially, is that they have "been around" for millenia while we as Americans have only been here for several hundred years...
And, IMO, due to the break, we are fearful, and overly conservative...
They (Europeans, and Asians) have had much more uninterrupted time to develop culture and civilization..
We may never catch up...

I truly hope America never does "catch up" to Asia and Europe. Believe it or not, some of our families LEFT these places to come to America simply because of our "undeveloped" culture and civilization. At a large family gathering in July part of my family had a long converstaion about whether the Patriarch of our family would have come to the US of 2012 when he brought his family here in 1900. The general consensus was that he would NOT have left the Germany of 1900 for the USA of 2012; mostly on philosophical/values grounds. Instead, he would likely have stayed in Germany as a farmer.

earthworm · Sep 12, 2012

Tigger said:
Nope. A true Conservative understands that Freedom and Liberty are PRIVILEGES, which should only be available to those who have PROVEN an ability to maintain actual Principles in their life.

We are "privileged" to be living in America, and freedom and liberty are LIMITED rights.
Nothing is "black and white", its all shades of gray.
And, Tigger, if, as you say, freedom and liberty are privileges, WHO GRANTS THEM ???

earthworm · Sep 12, 2012

I see what you mean, Tigger.....to an extent....
So, you believe there are things "wrong" with our nation now ?....Things that were OK in the Germany of 1900.
Please describe one ....
I know there are are things that can be improved..
I believe that we are overly conservative, that too many of us are intolerant - hateful - fearful .....
Of course, I'll plow away my fears and prejudges and vote for a human as president....being an atheist, being a "non-man", being a homosexual, being of African origin, being handicapped - MATTER NOT !!!!
Its the brain that matters !

Risky Thicket · Sep 12, 2012

Without hesitation I'd vote for a qualified best candidate who happened to be a woman. I would not, however, vote for Hillary or Chelsea, or a Romney girl or a Cheney or a Kennedy or a Bush daughter, an Obama daughter or a Biden daughter, nor for Condy Rice. In fact I wouldn't vote for the sons, daughters, wives, husbands, uncles or aunts of former presidents, vice presidents or secretaries of state or defense.

No more semi royal families. I'm sick of that. We fought a good war to stop that. Sheeple want to continue it.

Women in the White House? Yes. Yes, as long as they get they are part of a semi-royal American family.

And no, not the Space cadet from Alaska or Bachmann.

Would You Vote a Woman into Presidential Office?

Would you vote for a woman running for president if she held your political views?

I'd be happy and excited to vote for a woman

I would have some hesitations, but vote for her if she was best qualified

I would vote for her only if there wasn't a qualified man

I would not vote for a woman even if she held my views

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