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Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

Will Ryan as VP help or hurt Romney win election?

  • Total voters
    120
Ryan definitely hurts Romney for a number of reasons:

1. Seniors - Especially in the MUST WIN state of Florida for Romney. There is no road to the whitehouse for Romney without Florida and Paul "I will gut SS and Medicare" Ryan is not going to be popular with the senior crowd. Florida was trending blue already, however, this seals the deal for Obama in Florida and essentially the Presidency.

2. Students - One of Romney's only hopes of winning the whitehouse is that the student vote would stay home. Students turned out in huge numbers in 2008 to vote for Obama...many of them are apathetic today. However, with Paul "I will cut Pell grants and student aid" Ryan, Romney has accomplished for Obama what Obama would not have been able to do....energize the student vote to get out and vote. The one thing students care most about is higher education funding. Romney/Ryan has just provided Obama with the ignition to light a flame under these voters.

3. Independents - Romney needs to the moderate/independent vote - Ryan hurts with the demographic. Ryan is too extremist fiscally for moderates/independents. Polling shows that moderates/independents are against the proposals in Ryans budget by large percentages. Socially, Ryan is off the deep end. Ryan will energize the teabaggers and the evangelicals, but Romney will need a huge shake of his Etch-A-Sketch to portray himself as a moderate/independent despite Ryan in order to bring in this group in any large numbers.

4. Women - Romney has essentially written off the female vote. Polls early in the campaign showed Romney having some inroads into this demographic...a demographic that Republicans have lost for the last 2 decades. Ryan destroys any hope of Romney making any inroads here....in fact, I suspect Romney's numbers in this demographic will fall dramatically over the next month, especially after the convention and Ryans extremist views are more well known.
 
notquiteright said:
Some of us see the tax as not on someone dying, but rather someone GAINING, like a gift or the lottery... be thankful it isn't taxed like the lottery :roll:

For sure the receiver of the estate did something to earn the gift, most likely being fortunate enough to be born or adopted into the wealthy family.

Even the lame attempt to call it a 'death tax' doesn't change the fact few, if any people actually PAY the tax. First the tax doesn't kick in until the single person's estate is valued over 5 million dollars. Next given estate planning and gift tax relaxation, only spiteful Uber-riche would fail to dole out enough of their estate to duck below the 5 million dollar threshold.

More whine from the very blessed over a non issue while they are sitting there fat and happy.

Pathetic really...
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What if...? said:
We can thank Frank Luntz for this and other semantic turds.

Frank Luntz - SourceWatch
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In some ways, I love good spin. I appreciate the creativeness behind it. On the other hand, I also hate it, because too many people are gullible enough to fall for it. Anyway...

  • "Death Tax": Dishonest attempt at demonization.
  • "Estate Tax": Also dishonest, though not as blatantly. There is some truth to it. However, it is still a euphemistic spin attempt to make it sound less intrusive, and more palatable, than it really is.
  • "Inheritance Tax": Truthful AND accurate. *Gasp!!!* Oh... my... God... we obviously can't have that. :roll:

If we could do it my way, we wouldn't have to quibble about stupid stuff like semantics. Pure flat tax, and income is income is income. Period.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I've read the recent articles and followed the stories last August. AND?!?!?
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Well, you may have read them, but did you understand them? If you had, you would know that the DOD is about to have 1 trillion dollars cut from it in one year AND an executive order has been given by the POTUS that none of the money can come from personnel expenses. Well, seeing as how 60% of the DOD budget is personnel expenses, that means we will have 1 trillion dollars cut from just 40% of the budget. Now, I'm all for defense cuts but it has to be done responsibly. That is definitely not responsible.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Well, you may have read them, but did you understand them? If you had, you would know that the DOD is about to have 1 trillion dollars cut from it in one year AND an executive order has been given by the POTUS that none of the money can come from personnel expenses. Well, seeing as how 60% of the DOD budget is personnel expenses, that means we will have 1 trillion dollars cut from just 40% of the budget. Now, I'm all for defense cuts but it has to be done responsibly. That is definitely not responsible.
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And just how many personnel are you going to dump into the already overloaded job market? Or should the military just stop paying for your health care and other perks?


But, hey, I'm sure the TeaParty had it all figured out when they made the deal - right?!? I mean, they managed to stonewall everything and drop our credit rating a notch (well, 1/3 of a notch since only one agency did it) so I'm SURE they had it all figured out. :roll:
 
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It hurts and it helps ...yet it hurts his chances of winning the election. The undecideds and centrists will now vote Obama as Ryan is an GOP ideologue. Some on the fence were hoping Romney would govern center right and can now confirm Romney will pander against his own core beliefs. What a coward Romney is ... at least Ryan believes the BS he spouts.

The ones voting for Romney that were holding their nose will be a bit happier as they vote Romney yet he already had those votes and a few more far rights might venture out to vote. Yet, the undecideds and centrists in the swing states and for that matter all the states will be more likely to vote Obama.

The choice of Ryan is a win win for Obama.

I will say the Romney/Ryan ticket will win the distinction of best hair!
 
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MoSurveyor said:
And just how many personnel are you going to dump into the already overloaded job market? Or should the military just stop paying for your health care and other perks?


But, hey, I'm sure the TeaParty had it all figured out when they made the deal - right?!? I mean, they managed to stonewall everything and drop our credit rating a notch (well, 1/3 of a notch since only one agency did it) so I'm SURE they had it all figured out. :roll:
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Oh, you mean the same Tea Party that stopped the spending that resulted in that credit rating drop? I can't even imagine what the debt would be if the Dems had kept the House. How can you honestly think that the Tea Party is the reason our credit rating dropped? If the debt hadn't been run up at the rate at which it was, it wouldn't have even been an issue. Or do you mean the same Tea Party that is a big influence in the only part of the Congress that has actually passed a budget in the past 1000+ days?
BTW, I wasn't blaming President Obama or pointing the finger at him for the personnel decision. I was simply pointing out that the DOD is going to have to find cuts to 40% of its budget. Also, I have posted numerous times that I believe the DOD should reconsider the retirement program for vets. No one should be able to collect a pension at 38. That would save a lot of money from cutting programs that are as important to personnel as entitlements. We can be the most well taken care of force in the world, but if we can't train due to lack of funds, it defeats the purpose.
 
TurtleDude said:
why do you frame the issue in such dishonest terms

the death tax is called that because it doesn't apply until the owner of wealth has died

you know that

so why do yo pretend to frame the issue in a nonsensical way?

why are you so in love with this tax that you get upset when it is called a less wholesome but equally accurate term?
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It's like deja vu all over again. I feel like this exact conversation has happened before.
 
disneydude said:
Ryan definitely hurts Romney for a number of reasons:

1. Seniors - Especially in the MUST WIN state of Florida for Romney. There is no road to the whitehouse for Romney without Florida and Paul "I will gut SS and Medicare" Ryan is not going to be popular with the senior crowd. Florida was trending blue already, however, this seals the deal for Obama in Florida and essentially the Presidency.

2. Students - One of Romney's only hopes of winning the whitehouse is that the student vote would stay home. Students turned out in huge numbers in 2008 to vote for Obama...many of them are apathetic today. However, with Paul "I will cut Pell grants and student aid" Ryan, Romney has accomplished for Obama what Obama would not have been able to do....energize the student vote to get out and vote. The one thing students care most about is higher education funding. Romney/Ryan has just provided Obama with the ignition to light a flame under these voters.

3. Independents - Romney needs to the moderate/independent vote - Ryan hurts with the demographic. Ryan is too extremist fiscally for moderates/independents. Polling shows that moderates/independents are against the proposals in Ryans budget by large percentages. Socially, Ryan is off the deep end. Ryan will energize the teabaggers and the evangelicals, but Romney will need a huge shake of his Etch-A-Sketch to portray himself as a moderate/independent despite Ryan in order to bring in this group in any large numbers.

4. Women - Romney has essentially written off the female vote. Polls early in the campaign showed Romney having some inroads into this demographic...a demographic that Republicans have lost for the last 2 decades. Ryan destroys any hope of Romney making any inroads here....in fact, I suspect Romney's numbers in this demographic will fall dramatically over the next month, especially after the convention and Ryans extremist views are more well known.
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I guess you got this stuff on Media Matters or maybe from being on the Moveon.org email list.

Ryan could bring senior, female votes to GOP ticket despite Dem narrative | Fox News

Senior Citizens Like Ryan - By Katrina Trinko - The Corner - National Review Online

Florida Seniors Should Be Thrilled By Paul Ryan - Business Insider
 
Looks like the poll got hacked.
 
American said:
Looks like the poll got hacked.
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I think everyone who claims it will hurt is on record as being an Obama supporter except maybe one
 
TurtleDude said:
I think everyone who claims it will hurt is on record as being an Obama supporter except maybe one
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If youve been reading you would see alot of conservatives think ryan was the wrong choice
 
lpast said:
If youve been reading you would see alot of conservatives think ryan was the wrong choice
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like who? people who know more about the campaign than the people running it? amateurs on this board who are faceless people without any known credentials? I thought Portman or Rubio would have been better from MY perspective. I don't have access to the internal polling data that the campaign does. I haven't seen all the stuff.
 
lpast said:
If youve been reading you would see alot of conservatives think ryan was the wrong choice
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IMO, he was the wrong choice because we need him in the House. The guy is uber-intelligent, well spoken, willing to do unpopular things, and has become the figurehead of the fiscal conservative movement that has overtaken the House. I can't think of who the right is going to replace him with.
 
TurtleDude said:
like who? people who know more about the campaign than the people running it? amateurs on this board who are faceless people without any known credentials? I thought Portman or Rubio would have been better from MY perspective. I don't have access to the internal polling data that the campaign does. I haven't seen all the stuff.
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"amateurs on this board". They/we may be amateurs but our vote counts just as much as a political elitist, who some people pretend to be. You really think you are special, don't you?
 
MarineTpartier said:
IMO, he was the wrong choice because we need him in the House. The guy is uber-intelligent, well spoken, willing to do unpopular things, and has become the figurehead of the fiscal conservative movement that has overtaken the House. I can't think of who the right is going to replace him with.
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Why do you think he is uber intelligent? Because he has the t party manual memorized?
 
TurtleDude said:
I think everyone who claims it will hurt is on record as being an Obama supporter except maybe one
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Wrong! See, that's why republicans lose, because they are blinded by their ideology instead of taking all the facts into consideration.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
"amateurs on this board". They/we may be amateurs but our vote counts just as much as a political elitist, who some people pretend to be. You really think you are special, don't you?
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mighty touchy you are. I was also demonstrating I was putting myself in the same boat as others

try to read a bit better
 
LiberalAvenger said:
Wrong! See, that's why republicans lose, because they are blinded by their ideology instead of taking all the facts into consideration.
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speaking of amateur predictions. The GOP loses when there are more teat sucklers than producers voting. And yes, my observation about a POLL on this forum is accurate
 
MarineTpartier said:
Oh, you mean the same Tea Party that stopped the spending that resulted in that credit rating drop? I can't even imagine what the debt would be if the Dems had kept the House. How can you honestly think that the Tea Party is the reason our credit rating dropped?
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I'll let S&P speak for themselves ...

Lowering the nation’s rating to one notch below AAA, the credit rating company said “political brinkmanship” in the debate over the debt had made the U.S. government’s ability to manage its finances “less stable, less effective and less predictable.” It said the bipartisan agreement reached this week to find at least $2.1 trillion in budget savings “fell short” of what was necessary to tame the nation’s debt over time and predicted that leaders would not be likely to achieve more savings in the future.
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To which, I might add, some are already trying to weasel out of.

MarineTpartier said:
If the debt hadn't been run up at the rate at which it was, it wouldn't have even been an issue. Or do you mean the same Tea Party that is a big influence in the only part of the Congress that has actually passed a budget in the past 1000+ days?
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Who cares? Whatever the Senate passes would never clear the House. If you think the House passing a budget that will never clear the Senate is some Big Deal then you have been duped. It's nothing but Republican PR paid for by US.

MarineTpartier said:
BTW, I wasn't blaming President Obama or pointing the finger at him for the personnel decision. I was simply pointing out that the DOD is going to have to find cuts to 40% of its budget. Also, I have posted numerous times that I believe the DOD should reconsider the retirement program for vets. No one should be able to collect a pension at 38. That would save a lot of money from cutting programs that are as important to personnel as entitlements. We can be the most well taken care of force in the world, but if we can't train due to lack of funds, it defeats the purpose.
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The only way to get that 40% is going to be huge cuts to defense R&D and equipment purchases. Military contractors may as well kiss the ride goodbye because, much as I hate to see it, their ride is over.
 
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TurtleDude said:
speaking of amateur predictions. The GOP loses when there are more teat sucklers than producers voting. And yes, my observation about a POLL on this forum is accurate
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I wasn't talking aboutt polls, issue dodger.
 
LiberalAvenger said:
I wasn't talking aboutt polls, issue dodger.
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more idiocy. I was merely pointing out that those who want Obama to win are saying stuff they think helps Obama
 
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