Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

Dav said:

In general I tend to think that the VP pick has less of an effect than people pretend. Even Sarah Palin probably got equal amounts of people to vote for and against McCain (though there was at least one poll showing that she helped more than she hurt him).

But if I *had* to pick I'd say this helps Romney, simply because undecideds are looking for an alternative to Obama and at least Ryan offers *something*. He's articulate enough to make a good case against the inevitable smears, too. Even if some independents are somewhat uneasy about the ideas behind it, I'm willing to bet they're more uneasy about repeating the last 4 years.

Plus it'll help conservatives get behind the "Massachusetts Moderate".

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It also depends on how involved Governor Romney would want his VP to be. Some VPs are immensely useful in crafting strategy, or simply used as a negotiating edge.

Fiddytree said:

Boy that second option is a bit misspelled.

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Redress is in for a rude surprise tomorrow when the Secret Service comes knocking at her door...

Fiddytree said:

Boy that second option is a bit misspelled.

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Um, yeah, I better fix that.

cbaber said:

Such a great argument full of facts and insight... :doh

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Yes I am.


The Mitt Romney Deception
Despite recent statements across the country by Governor Mitt Romney claiming he's pro-life, pro-family and a committed conservative, a broad investigation of his actual statements, actions, and public positions over the years indicates that he has spent his entire career speaking and governing as a liberal - and that his new found conversion to conservatism very likely coincides with his candidacy for the presidency.


The Mitt Romney Deception
Socialized medicine.

The Mitt Romney Deception
Severe gun control

The Mitt Romney Deception
Pro-abortion

The Mitt Romney Deception
Pro-gay marriage

The Mitt Romney Deception
Appointed gay and liberal judges to positions.


The Conservative Voice News and Columns

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...usetts_li.html

http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...ork_at_ro.html
Standing on stage at a Republican debate on the Gulf Coast of Florida last week, Mitt Romney repeatedly lashed out at rival Rudy Giuliani for providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants in New York City.

Yet, the very next morning, on Thursday, at least two illegal immigrants stepped out of a hulking maroon pickup truck in the driveway of Romney's Belmont house, then proceeded to spend several hours raking leaves, clearing debris from Romney's tennis court, and loading the refuse back on to the truck.

In fact, their work was part of a regular pattern. Despite a Globe story in Dec. 2006 that highlighted Romney's use of illegal immigrants to tend to his lawn, Romney continued to employ the same landscaping company -- until today. The landscaping company, in turn, continued to employ illegal immigrants.


Why We Hate Mitt Romney So Much :: :: FITSNewsFITSNews
Seriously, if this guy isn’t struck by lightning at some point during the 2008 campaign there’s no justice in the world. After all, it’s one thing to flip-flop on every issue under the sun in an effort to fool people into thinking you’re something you’re not, but Romney is now taking the art of bull***** to a whole new level - attacking people for doing the same stuff he did.

Romney’s latest swipe alleges that Hizzoner Giuliani is “soft on immigration” because he turned New York into a “sanctuary city” for illegal immigrants.

Of course what Romney failed to mention was that three cities in Massachusetts formally declared themselves to be “sanctuary cities” (i.e. cities that promise to provide government services to illegal immigrants) during his term as governor, and Romney did absolutely nothing about it.



Page 2: Giuliani Vows to End Illegal Immigration - ABC News

Sanctuary Cities Under Romney

But Giuliani's campaign said that Romney's aggressive charge on this issue is inconsistent with Romney's record. While governor of Massachusetts from 2003 until 2007, three cities in Romney's home state – Somerville, Cambridge, and Orleans -- either declared or reissued declarations stating that they are in essence sanctuary cities.

supports cap and trade.
Romney On Cap And Trade In 2003: 'I Am Making Good On My Pledge' To Clean Up Carbon Pollution 'Harming Our Climate' | ThinkProgress

supports outsourcing
How Mitt Romney Invested Millions in Outsourcing - Forbes

The good thing about Ryan is that he is a budget guy. The Republican ticket has a solid plan for our 8.3% unemployment rate. Thats more than you can say for Obama and voters see that.

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I find it hard to believe that someone who supports outsourcing will really do anything for unemployment except for the unemployment in other countries.

Fiddytree said:

If Romney picked someone that was a social conservative you'd say the same thing.

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Romney isn't very spin resistant. Its easy to work any pick into an unflattering narrative.

Redress said:

Well, it is being reported that Romney will announce Ryan tomorrow morning. While it is entirely possible that they are screwing with the media, it seems kinda unlikely and that Ryan will be the VP pick. Do you think the pick will help Romney, hurt him, have no real effect?

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I say sign him up. Let the games begin.

Morality Games said:

Romney isn't very spin resistant. Its easy to work any pick into an unflattering narrative.

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It would be something if his wrinkle free shirts worked that way with politics, eh?

cpwill said:

........

I'm going to assume you were just reading too fast; and missed that.





Romney has significantly more executive experience than Obama did when he ran to be President - and after 3.5 years of OJT, Obama hasn't demonstrated a particularly steep learning curve.

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Have we seen a real platform yet? Hell, have we seen one by anyone in recent memory?

Redress said:

Well, it is being reported that Romney will announce Ryan tomorrow morning. While it is entirely possible that they are screwing with the media, it seems kinda unlikely and that Ryan will be the VP pick. Do you think the pick will help Romney, hurt him, have no real effect?

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The Romney Campaign just put a revolver to its head and pulled the trigger.

While Romney backed the Ryan, he could have backed away from parts of it if he picked someone else. Now with the author as its VP, he is essentially bonded to it and the Ryan is supremely god awful. It doesn't even come close to balancing the budget, it is projected to actually increase the deficit and will likely cause a severe recession.

JohnWOlin said:

I will hurt Romney. With voting.

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Indeed. Now the only real reason I see to justifiably voting for Obama it stop the Ryan plan.

The GOP is so intellectually hollow that they'll back a plan that will increase the deficit purely to lower their rich backers' taxes.

The Ryan plan is a total fiscal joke that will make things worse. The only hope we have if Obama loses is that the GOP actually reads what's in the bill and realizes "WHAT THE HELL DID HE WRITE?!" and vote no.

Other

As in - I don't really care.

I will say this, he's no Sarah Palin - that's a positive if you are a Romney fan.


Wow - what a dumbass choice that was.

A guy in his seventies who has had numerous bouts with cancer chooses some intellectual, light weight who has never set foot in Washington in a official capacity to lead the most powerful country in history if he croaks.

What the heck was the guy thinking?

obvious Child said:

The Ryan plan is a total fiscal joke that will make things worse.

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I'll let you call it a joke when the senate is able to pass a budget. Its been how long now, 3 years and counting? Whether or not you agree with Ryans policies, its great that Romney and Ryan will have a well known economic plan to run on this November. Obama does not have a tax plan. Taxes — President Obama’s Record — Barack Obama Obama's tax plan is to tell congress to get something done. The american people got sold on promises of hope and change in 08. They got nothing but an unpopular healthcare law. They want to hear about the next steps and Romney is the only one with anything to offer.

cbaber said:

I'll let you call it a joke when the senate is able to pass a budget.

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Fair enough, but that doesn't change the fact that the Ryan plan is a joke independent of the Senate's failure.

Its been how long now, 3 years and counting? Whether or not you agree with Ryans policies, its great that Romney and Ryan will have a well known economic plan to run on this November.

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You sure about that? Have you seen what's in it?

Obama does not have a tax plan. Taxes — President Obama’s Record — Barack Obama Obama's tax plan is to tell congress to get something done.

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Are you aware of what the jobs of the executive and legislative branch are? The executive branch has never written laws and are explicitly barred from doing so. Which include tax laws.

The american people got sold on promises of hope and change in 08. They got nothing but an unpopular healthcare law. They want to hear about the next steps and Romney is the only one with anything to offer.

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You do realize that the ACA, when broken down and explained comes off rather favorably? People LOVE many of its parts. They just for some reason hate the gestalt. It's amusing watching the GOP try to explain their alternative without referencing the many parts of the ACA that people like. Obama essentially stole many of the GOP healthcare reform plans and now the GOP has little to work with without admitting that at least parts of the ACA are in fact good.

Romney is a spineless politician who has and will flip flop on any position to gather a few meager votes and will not stand up for his own campaign staff when it counts.

And you want him as President.

At least Obama is moderately honest with what he says. You may disagree, but he's honest. Only Mittens knows what Mittens believes.

obvious Child said:

At least Obama is moderately honest with what he says. You may disagree, but he's honest. Only Mittens knows what Mittens believes.

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He said he would 1/2 the deficit in his first term...not even close.

He said he would close Gitmo and went on and on about how bad it is for America. It's still open.

And please save the excuses for both - because that is ALL they are...excuses. And I have heard them ALL ad nauseum.

He made promises and he did not keep them.

He did not say he might do them. He said he would.

He gave his word (in essence) and he went back on them.

He is NOT honest.


Nor is he honorable.

At the very least, he should say; 'I personally believe that I had little choice on these matters. But I made promises to America that I did not keep and I should be judged accordingly for not fulfilling those promises. I am the President and they are my responsibility.'

But he didn't.

He and his cronies just blamed everyone else but him.

Pathetic.

At least take responsibility for breaking your promises.

No one forced him to make those promises. But he chose to. So the responsibility is his if they do not come to pass.


Nor is he wise.

A wise person should know NEVER to make a promise unless you KNOW you can keep it.

That's how I operate.

It's simple common sense.


Is he the worst scumbag in the world?

Definitely not. he seems like a very interesting dude outside of the job.

But as a politician he is NOT honest and he does NOT take responsibility for his promises...just like most politicians.


Finally, I do not believe Romney for a moment either.

He does flip flop like mad.

But this notion that so many people have that Obama is SO honest is simply not true.

obvious Child said:

Fair enough, but that doesn't change the fact that the Ryan plan is a joke independent of the Senate's failure.

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:roll:

You sure about that? Have you seen what's in it?

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I have. And he is correct.

Are you aware of what the jobs of the executive and legislative branch are? The executive branch has never written laws and are explicitly barred from doing so. Which include tax laws.

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Yes and yet the President is expected to propose a budget every year, and Obama is running on increasing tax rates as though he would have the ability to effect such a thing... :thinking odd, that.

You do realize that the ACA, when broken down and explained comes off rather favorably?

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Some parts, certainly. People like free candy, they just don't like the tax increases and restrictions that goes into trying to making it work. Polling free candy is always popular.

Romney is a spineless politician who has and will flip flop on any position to gather a few meager votes and will not stand up for his own campaign staff when it counts.

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No - Romney has a pretty strong spine. What he doesn't have is an ideological core. He will do what he feels is necessary to win, which means he has been inconsistent.

And you want him as President.

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I would say that conservatives prefer him as President to our current alternative. I wanted Mitch Daniels.

At least Obama is moderately honest with what he says. You may disagree, but he's honest.

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:lol: Yeah. For example, with homosexual marriage, where first he was for it before he was against it before he was for it. And lobbyists in the White House. And individual health insurance mandates. And tougher border security. And etc. so on and so forth.

It will hurt him in some ways and help...explanation, It will hurt him with independents and senior babyboomers...it will help him with the far right and teaparty YOUNGER types. Will it in the end help Romney Overall to get elected....I dont think so...I put I dont think, because no one knows the answer to that at this point.
I dont think Romeny wanted Paul Ryan I think Romney was pushed and prodded into a Paul Ryan by the far right.

Been doing some reading on the Ryan Pick...interestingly historically VP choices can hurt a candidates chances more than they can help...so ive read this morning. Meaning VPs dont help you get elected historically but can put a damper on you.
The general consensus seems to be Ryan is a High Risk low reward choice for Mitt Romney that he was forced to make by his rich benefactors.
Paul Ryan is the Poster Darling of the GIMME ANOTHER TAX CUT crowd and We just gotta get this social security and medicare and medicaid gone and get rid of public pensions and health benefits and obamacare they are collapsing the country...we need to couple that with huge tax cuts for the top 1% or rich americans and corporations and get rid of costly regulations and that will fix everything and create millions of jobs..just like the other full 50% cut in taxs have right Paulie ?......Ok I believe you Paul...I cant wait to run out and pull the lever for obama

DA60 said:

But this notion that so many people have that Obama is SO honest is simply not true.

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You do realize you're comparing political promises to time in office no? Every candidate lies to get into office. It's just that some of them flip flop during office to get the next one.

obvious Child said:

You do realize you're comparing political promises to time in office no? Every candidate lies to get into office. It's just that some of them flip flop during office to get the next one.

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Which in Obama's case translates to flip flopping while in office to get reelected.

cpwill said:

:roll: I have. And he is correct.

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Correct in what? Wanting to destroy America? It's amusing watching you side with someone who's authored plan deliberately destroys a consumer capitalist economy.

Yes and yet the President is expected to propose a budget every year, and Obama is running on increasing tax rates as though he would have the ability to effect such a thing... :thinking odd, that.

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And that budget is largely ignored year after year. Sure Obama is running on increasing taxes. There is no mathematical way you can balance the budget without raising revenue. As much as your fairly tale land would suggest, you cannot balance purely on cuts. I know you're terrible with numbers, but try for once.

Some parts, certainly. People like free candy, they just don't like the tax increases and restrictions that goes into trying to making it work. Polling free candy is always popular.

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O'rly? Do you know how much you're paying right now to cover the uninsured? Dishonest people like you never address the fact that premiums and taxes are being used right now to cover the uninsured. With a mandate, a sizable chunk of those uninsured now cover at least part of their own resulting in less premiums being stolen and less taxes going to pay for the uninsured, Dishonest people like you don't even want to acknowledge that we are already socializing medical costs. The amusing **** about dishonest people like you is that you are subtly arguing that free riding and the theft of premiums is okay. Apparently taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor is bad, but taking premiums from the middle class and rich and giving it to the freeloaders is okay. Dishonest people like you make no sense. All the ACA really does is bring the costs to the front rather then hiding them in the insurance company 10ks.

No - Romney has a pretty strong spine. What he doesn't have is an ideological core. He will do what he feels is necessary to win, which means he has been inconsistent.

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He has a strong spine but stands for nothing and will bend over whenever it gets him an inch? Really? Did you really just say that? You know, three years ago you wouldn't have been caught dead saying something that asinine.

I would say that conservatives prefer him as President to our current alternative. I wanted Mitch Daniels.

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And I wanted John Huntsman.

:lol: Yeah. For example, with homosexual marriage, where first he was for it before he was against it before he was for it. And lobbyists in the White House. And individual health insurance mandates. And tougher border security. And etc. so on and so forth.

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I seriously doubt Obama ever was against it. In fact, I suspect he was lying when he came out against it. Nothing he's ever done or said suggests he actually was against gay marriage.

Again, you are comparing many campaign promises to actual governing.

Romney as GOVERNOR was pro-choice, pro-climate change, pro-gun control, pro-tax hikes, pro-mandate. What has he done now?

The stances you take when you are actually in charge matter. To wholesale turn against what you stood for as an elected leader to get a nomination is pretty bad.

I still find it hilarious the GOP nominated a candidate who outright disavowed Reagan.

So, the same people who said Scott Walker's reforms were political suicide now seem to think picking Paul Ryan is political suicide.

Let's wait and see.

Dav said:

So, the same people who said Scott Walker's reforms were political suicide now seem to think picking Paul Ryan is political suicide.

Let's wait and see.

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Walker's "reforms" won't cause a wholesale collapse in consumer spending, severely damage corporate earnings and cause wholesale job losses at the same time wholly failing to bring down the deficit.

Furthermore, Walker's "reforms" aren't done yet. Wait till the people of Wisconsin realize that the Governor can now sell state assets to whomever he wants without any bids and without public notice.

Dav said:

So, the same people who said Scott Walker's reforms were political suicide now seem to think picking Paul Ryan is political suicide.

Let's wait and see.

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Scott walker isnt the popular guy you think nor is his polices...recall elections are tough either way and The far right DUMPED hundreds of millions to keep scott in office and thats they only way he won...

lpast said:

Scott walker isnt the popular guy you think nor is his polices...recall elections are tough either way and The far right DUMPED hundreds of millions to keep scott in office and thats they only way he won...

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Keep working on those excuse-making skills. You'll need 'em more than ever on November 7th.

lpast said:

Scott walker isnt the popular guy you think nor is his polices...recall elections are tough either way and The far right DUMPED hundreds of millions to keep scott in office and thats they only way he won...

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Actually the real reason he wasn't removed is because a sizable number of voters thought that what he did didn't qualify as grounds for removal. They didn't like what he did, but his reforms weren't something on the grounds for recall. I actually agree with them. Merely because you dislike the policies is hardly grounds for removal. Recall in many senses has to be done for something criminal.