If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racist

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

zstep18 said:

Explain how those two are anyway related?

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Slippery slope buddy, slippery slope.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

MaggieD said:

If the minority gay community wants the majority of the population to consider their right to marry as a civil rights issue, they'd serve themselves much better by approaching it in the same way MLK approached the black issue in the United States. Their Gay Rights Parades are a far cry from the marches for civil rights.

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People of color got NOTHING -- legislatively -- from peaceful marches, eloquent speeches, refined and stately processions of dignified people in their Sunday best walking great distances in orderly procession. The worth of such actions was in defining and identifying with their own cause.

What really shifted things was civil disobedience **in the context** of a polity who took seriously the worth of fellow human beings...to the degree that the sheer violence and absurdity of segregation could no longer be pretended away.

In other words, people of color didn't get (some) civil rights recognized by the law through being polite and catering to the sensibilities of the ignorant and entitled; they got them by putting their lives on the line and successfully enlisting the solidarity and aid of those among the privileged who were prepared to take responsibility for an unjust order they benefit from by sharing some small piece of the danger.

MLK, Jr., SNCC, and the millions of non-famous people involved in overturning de jure segregation were successful NOT by playing nice, but by forcing government to address them and take a side...and demonstrating (through their sacrifice) the glaring injustice of the law.

A major challenge in engaging in civil disobedience today is that the political climate (for many reasons) is so backwards and callous that there's a much higher and more demanding threshold to cross before general witnesses of state violence identify with those who are being brutalized. It's not just a case of some ridiculous contest of which oppressed group of people has suffered some arbitrary required amount of violence and dispossession until they are sympathized with...rather there's also a much broader challenge of getting privileged people (on any given axis) to interrupt their own complicity in a form of oppression (which involves taking real risk to themselves) when they don't really have to and when the social climate is such that solidarity is a fading and minority principle.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

Kandahar said:

"Culture" is not an immutable, unchangeable fact of your identity like gender or race are.

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Actually, "race" is cultural. The catch is that it is assigned to/imposed upon individuals (involuntary) and so -- while NOT biological and NOT immutable -- it doesn't typically change for an individual unless they take radical measures (like moving to a different region of the world with a different "racial" mythology. It IS chosen, just in a very inarticulate way...and NOT by the individual in question.

Orientation, of course, is by the preponderance of scientific evidence a biological imperative.

Having said all that, it doesn't change the ethical basis of opposition to discrimination on either grounds (i.e. racist discrimination or homophobic discrimination). While "race" isn't ACTUALLY something you ARE (it's something a racist society imposes upon you), it's still something beyond the control of the individual being "racially" assigned, so for purposes of examining the ethics of discrimination, it is equivalent.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

This is nothing but a really bad bait thread.

I changed my mind.

My friends mom (rest her soul) was a good women who did not like interracial marriages, and you know why? It sure as hell was not because she was a bigot or racist. She felt that multiracial kids (back in the 80's) would have a really tough time identity etc. I can tell you from being bi-racial that she is absolutely correct, it was harder, but now times have changed.

Kandahar, you need to come up with something better than this baiting tripe.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

Blackdog said:

This is nothing but a really bad bait thread.

I changed my mind.

My friends mom (rest her soul) was a good women who did not like interracial marriages, and you know why? It sure as hell was not because she was a bigot or racist. She felt that multiracial kids (back in the 80's) would have a really tough time identity etc. I can tell you from being bi-racial that she is absolutely correct, it was harder, but now times have changed.

Kandahar, you need to come up with something better than this baiting tripe.

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uhm but the obvious question is did she want to ban it or make it illegal?

not liking it is different dont you think?

also on the other end of your story I am also biracial as you already know and grew up during that same time even younger, i had no identity problems at all :shrug:

again not saying your mom was wrong because it was just an opinion but it was a very narrow view of reality because I could probably list 100 things that would have a similar effect on a child.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

Objective-J said:

uhm but the obvious question is did she want to ban it or make it illegal?

not liking it is different dont you think?

also on the other end of your story I am also biracial as you already know and grew up during that same time even younger, i had no identity problems at all :shrug:

again not saying your mom was wrong because it was just an opinion but it was a very narrow view of reality because I could probably list 100 things that would have a similar effect on a child.

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Given the culture and social norms of the time, it was totally correct to say that a biracial child would face challenges growing up. Today, that is much less true in most of the country at least than it was years ago.

and, no doubt one of the reasons is that people were brave enough to challenge social norms and engage in interracial marriage when it was not considered the right thing to do.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

Dittohead not! said:

Given the culture and social norms of the time, it was totally correct to say that a biracial child would face challenges growing up. Today, that is much less true in most of the country at least than it was years ago.

and, no doubt one of the reasons is that people were brave enough to challenge social norms and engage in interracial marriage when it was not considered the right thing to do.

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I agree they COULD have but it most certainly wasnt a given as I did not but you are right people were brave to do it, including my parents.

I dont think the risk of challenges were any more than a kid that was bad at sports, not so smart, extra smart, had subjectively ugly parents or nerdy, raised by a gram etc etc.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

Objective-J said:

uhm but the obvious question is did she want to ban it or make it illegal?

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Never asked to be honest. Considering she treated me like her son and never said or did anything to make me think anything else, So I doubt it.

Objective-J said:

not liking it is different dont you think?

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No. I don't like the idea of gays getting married, but you know this. I support it only because we are a secular government, and equal treatment under the law is to important. Plus I have way to many friends who are gay. How could I not support them?

Objective-J said:

also on the other end of your story I am also biracial as you already know and grew up during that same time even younger, i had no identity problems at all :shrug:

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So you are half black as well?

Objective-J said:

again not saying your mom was wrong because it was just an opinion but it was a very narrow view of reality because I could probably list 100 things that would have a similar effect on a child.

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Not my mom, my best friends mom.

So could I, but that's not my point.

The point is ignorant ****s making pathetic blanket statements about everyone in a group.

Re: If a man wants to ban interracial marriage, does that make him a bigot or a racis

Blackdog said:

1.)Never asked to be honest. Considering she treated me like her son and never said or did anything to make me think anything else, So I doubt it.



2.)No. I don't like the idea of gays getting married, but you know this. I support it only because we are a secular government, and equal treatment under the law is to important. Plus I have way to many friends who are gay. How could I not support them?



3.)So you are half black as well?



4.)Not my mom, my best friends mom.

5.)So could I, but that's not my point.

The point is ignorant ****s making pathetic blanket statements about everyone in a group.

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1.) it didnt matter if she was or not the point was they are clearly different. Not liking something and wanting it banned is quite different.

2.) thats good you support equal rights regardless of your personal feelings thats what all americans should do and many fail to. But again I meant not liking something is different that wanting it banned.

3.) Yes, im pretty sure this as come up before

4.) yeah sorry I messed that up

5.) it is the point to what I was saying, its really a non issue, its fine to think it but in reality its not really a big deal

6.) the way it is worded I dont think there is anything wrong with it, now I suppose there could be some exception but IMO anybody that wants to ban interracial marriage is in fact a bigot and or racist. :shrug: just my opinion

of course I have no problem with people just no t liking it or being against it for them selves but thats different than wanting it banned