• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which right holds sway?

Which right holds sway?

  • 2nd Amendment

    Votes: 15 21.7%
  • Property Rights

    Votes: 54 78.3%

  • Total voters
    69
Under this logic, would you suggest legally licensed-to-carry individuals ought to be able to bring guns into local courthouses
No. Like an emergency room or a bar, the events in a court house are to emotionally charged. An otherwise calm and rational person could have a momentary laps of control depending on the case; especially in a child custody battle.


Like a public school? Yes, citizens with a permit should be allowed to carry onto any public school:
Oregon Firearms Federation

Putting aside for a moment that Oregon does not issue "concealed weapons permits," this school just like every other public school in the state, has NO authority to forbid a person with a concealed handgun license from entering school property. While both Oregon and Federal law forbid people from being on school property with firearms, concealed handgun license holders are exempt from both laws.Oregon statute 166.370 forbids firearms in "public buildings" which schools are, but subsection B says "this section does not apply to:... (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun"

As we have said elsewhere, if you have a child you maycarry unto public school property.

You do not have a 'right' to be on my property unless the government says that you do not.

When you have hired me as an employee or are operating a business which is open to the public, yes, I have a right to be on your property; as an employee during my shift, and as a customer while doing business with you.

You cannot come on my property and say whatever you want, despite your freedom of speech.

Actually, unless I'm causing a disturbance (ie I'm damaging you, by causing customers to leave) yes I can. If I come into your diner and have a quiet conversation with a friend and you want to remove us simply because you disagree with what we're saying, you are braking Public Accommodation laws and can be cited by the city.

My holstered concealed pistol isn't harming anyone, either.
 
Last edited:
That is false. Speech is not protected by what you are calling "public accommodation laws."
 
No. Like an emergency room or a bar, the events in a court house are to emotionally charged. An otherwise calm and rational person could have a momentary laps of control depending on the case; especially in a child custody battle.



Like a public school? Yes, citizens with a permit should be allowed to carry onto any public school:




When you have hired me as an employee or are operating a business which is open to the public, yes, I have a right to be on your property; as an employee during my shift, and as a customer while doing business with you.



Actually, unless I'm causing a disturbance (ie I'm damaging you, by causing customers to leave) yes I can. If I come into your diner and have a quiet conversation with a friend and you want to remove us simply because you disagree with what we're saying, you are braking Public Accommodation laws and can be cited by the city.

My holstered concealed pistol isn't harming anyone, either.

If we're discussing strictly what 'ought' to be, then what you are saying is that you want more government control in our lives. Your premises are other laws that have been created and upheld and then suggesting that we ought to change the gun-laws to align them with the other laws.

I agree that they are misaligned, but I'm explaining that to align them, we don't decrease the rights property owners even further, but rather increase their rights so that they have full control over their property again.

So pointing out all of the things that you can do already isn't helping your case. I agree, I couldn't reasonably disagree, with those facts. But I'm arguing that they aren't right and how they ought to be changed, as you are arguing how the gun laws ought to be changed.

The government should not be allowed to tell me that it is the right of types of individuals to do business with me if I disagree. I should be able to freely choose who I can do business with and who is on my property. And if society is truly against my beliefs, then my business will not last.

I'm not an extremist in this sense, as some libertarians are. I understand that there is a point in which government involvement is necessary to uphold the fabric of our desired society. Ideally not so, but in reality, yes. But I think we've already gone too far and such a legislative move would only take us further.
 
If we're discussing strictly what 'ought' to be, then what you are saying is that you want more government control in our lives.

Call it what you want. A rose by any other name....

I want to add 'citizens lawfully carrying a firearm' to the protected list in the Civil Rights Act of 1964. If that seems like more government control to you then ok.

Hey, while we're at it, let's add 'sexual orientation' to the list, too. Seriously, it's about time we put that issue to bed, too. Or do you also want to discriminate against gays?

Call it government infringement if you want, this is still the right thing to do.

The government should not be allowed to tell me that it is the right of types of individuals to do business with me if I disagree.

The government already does. You've already lost that battle, and you have no hope of re-fighting it. The Civil Rights Act is here to stay. When you applied for a business license you agreed to follow various codes specific to businesses. These codes, which you voluntarily agreed to, impose on your core, pure right to property and privacy. You can rescind that agreement at any time, but for as long as you voluntarily hold a buisness license, you are voluntarily allowing various infringements on your right to property and privacy.

If you want to discriminate without limit, great: close up shop, rip up your bushiness license and do as you please. Stand out on your porch in your beer-stained wife-beater and tell dem-thar niggers, spics and homos wat'frr.

I should be able to freely choose who I can do business with and who is on my property.

But you can't. Even if I never get my way, you still can't. Deal with it.

And if society is truly against my beliefs, then my business will not last.

Sure it will. All you have to do is evolve and not discriminate.

I'm not an extremist in this sense, as some libertarians are. I understand that there is a point in which government involvement is necessary to uphold the fabric of our desired society. Ideally not so, but in reality, yes. But I think we've already gone too far and such a legislative move would only take us further.

The best option is for you to not infringe on my rights in the first place so that no legal action is then required to correct you.

So here again you're making another post which is not specific to guns. You are making a broad argument that you just want be able to do whatever you want. It doesn't sound like you actually have an opinion on this specific issue, guns at work.
 
Last edited:
The best option is for you to not infringe on my rights in the first place so that no legal action is then required to correct you.

This is the crux of the issue I'm having with your argument. You're begging the question by saying "don't infringe on my rights" when the question is whether or not there is an infringement.

The question is asking if private property rights hold sway over gun owner rights. Which, given the OP's example, I find equivalent to asking: Is it an infringement on the gun owner's right to bear arms when a property owner refuses them entry into their private business if they legally have a concealed weapon?

What we really need to answer is what is an infringement of their rights? Am I forcing them to not bear arms? Of course not, because I am not forcing them to do business with me. So there is no infringement of rights.

You want legal gun concealers to be added to the protection of the Civil Rights Act?? So it would now read: "...discrimination on the ground of race, color, religion, national origin, or those who legally conceal firearms shall not occur..." One of these things is not like the others - one of these things DON'T belong.
 
This is the crux of the issue I'm having with your argument. You're begging the question by saying "don't infringe on my rights" when the question is whether or not there is an infringement.

The question is asking if private property rights hold sway over gun owner rights. Which, given the OP's example, I find equivalent to asking: Is it an infringement on the gun owner's right to bear arms when a property owner refuses them entry into their private business if they legally have a concealed weapon?

What we really need to answer is what is an infringement of their rights? Am I forcing them to not bear arms? Of course not, because I am not forcing them to do business with me. So there is no infringement of rights.

You want legal gun concealers to be added to the protection of the Civil Rights Act?? So it would now read: "...discrimination on the ground of race, color, religion, national origin, or those who legally conceal firearms shall not occur..." One of these things is not like the others - one of these things DON'T belong.
I've already answered these questions in detail, with working links to my source material. Why are you regurgitating the same thing over and over?

Yes, when you open a business or hire me I have a right to be there. Yes, you are infringing on my rights when you deny me otherwise lawful access to your business as a customer or my place of employment.

You do these things for no reason other than personal preference.

As per SCOTUS, as sourced, rights take precedence over preference every time.
 
Last edited:
Insults from loosertarians are in fact compliments, so thank you :2wave:

Good luck on the 'legalize all hard drugs' thing.

hey - HEY! I know we disagree and all, but do NOT insult us with that term "loosertarians". That's childish and immature. We are not loose. You may call us 'losertarians' however, if you should desire.

And I agree, rights do take precedence of preference. And I'm discussing property rights... we're not discussing preferences. You did not yet address my point that I am NOT infringing on your right to bear arms because I am not forcing you to do business with me. This is the crux of my argument which you have avoided entirely. I may have missed it in my re-read just now... but I really don't see where you think you've addressed it. I think it's just a difference in opinion, truly, that cannot be resolved. But if there is something more to your argument than "I want to change the Civil Rights Act", I do want to hear it.
 
You did not yet address my point that I am NOT infringing on your right to bear arms because I am not forcing you to do business with me.
For example:
20-13-23. Public accommodations--Unfair or discriminatory practices. It shall be an unfair or discriminatory practice for any person engaged in the provision of public accommodations because of race, color, creed, religion, sex, ancestry, disability, or national origin, to fail or refuse to provide to any person access to the use of and benefit from the services and facilities of such public accommodations; or to accord adverse, unlawful, or unequal treatment to any person with respect to the availability of such services and facilities, the price or other consideration therefor, the scope and equality thereof, or the terms and conditions under which the same are made available, including terms and conditions relating to credit, payment, warranties, delivery, installation, and repair.

South Dakota Code 20-13-23

When you open your business to the public, you have to conduct 'fair and equal treatment' to each person who voluntarily walks through your door. You cannot deny access to your business just because a customer is one of these protected classes. You cannot refuse to sell to a customer just because the customer belongs to one of these classes.

I want to add 'lawfully carrying a firearm' to these classes because I have a need to carry whereas the business does not have a need to deny.

I don't carry for preference, I've actually had to use my gun. No bushiness can demonstrate a streak of lawful CCW carriers committing crimes, that the business would need to ban otherwise lawfull carry.
 
Last edited:
For example:


When you open your business to the public, you have to conduct 'fair and equal treatment' to each person who voluntarily walks through your door. You cannot deny access to your business just because a customer is one of these protected classes. You cannot refuse to sell to a customer just because the customer belongs to one of these classes.

I want to add 'lawfully carrying a firearm' to these classes because I have a need to carry whereas the business does not have a need to deny.

I don't carry for preference, I've actually had to use my gun. No bushiness can demonstrate a streak of lawful CCW carriers committing crimes, that the business would need to ban otherwise lawfull carry.

Again if your example has any weight you would not need a special law to get what you want. So your argument is invalid. It is obvious that you care nothing about Private property landowner rights. And even if you to wiggle more parking lot laws in more states, it will be a hard sell to go any further than that since if one reads those laws you guys didnt really win much and nowhere close to what the NRA wanted. Legally your movement is weak and will fizzle out as soon as no other states follow the other states lead.
 
Again if your example has any weight you would not need a special law to get what you want.
I look forward to your link proving that.

Come to think of it, have you offered any source material at all?

I invite you to share your argument over in the Sex and Sexuality forum, to tell gays that since their cause would require a special law to get what they want, that same-sex marriage is therefore invalid. Let's see how far you get with that one. I'm at least remaining civil and relatively patient. Don't expect the same treatment from pro-ssm.
 
Last edited:
I'll be more than happy to give your post a more detailed response later today, but for the time being I'd like to just put my finger directly on my objection. Hopefully this will help make myself clearer.

Since the right to keep and carry is a specifically enumerated right, any gun ban must meet 'Strict Scrutiny' requirements.


The first requirement of Strict Scrutiny is where my chief objection with 'land owner preference' is. The first requirement is that the law allowing the land owner to ban must serve a 'compelling interest', ie; something necessary or crucial, as opposed to something merely preferred.

Constantly repeating 'my property, my rules' is affirming that your ban is merely a preference. Preference fails the Strict Scrutiny test. The land owner must have a 'compelling interest' in order to ban employees from exorsizing a specifically enumerated constitutional right.

Please see also:
Strict scrutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you were to apply that test to PUBLIC property ie goverment owned, then you would be absolutely correct. You are however applying that scutiny to PRIVATE property thats whole nother ball of wax. Thats a place I cant and wont go. Business is not public, employers are not public.
 
For example:


When you open your business to the public, you have to conduct 'fair and equal treatment' to each person who voluntarily walks through your door. You cannot deny access to your business just because a customer is one of these protected classes. You cannot refuse to sell to a customer just because the customer belongs to one of these classes.

I want to add 'lawfully carrying a firearm' to these classes because I have a need to carry whereas the business does not have a need to deny.

I don't carry for preference, I've actually had to use my gun. No bushiness can demonstrate a streak of lawful CCW carriers committing crimes, that the business would need to ban otherwise lawfull carry.

I have never agreed to protected classes based on my freedom of association, or not to associate. Have you ever seen a "We reserve the right to refuse service." sign. I have one in my office. I have always believed in the golden rule "Do unto others as you would do for yourself." Its bad business mojo to do otherwise. That said if I dont want to do business with someone for whatever reason, I aint.

How do you balance the rights of a property owner and the rights of free citizens to exercise their god given rights to keep and bear arms? I think Tigger has a very good idea about how to go about it. I carry wherever I can but I dont carry where someone doesnt want me regardless of their reasons. I am polite and respect their wishes in expectation they recipicate. I may not like it but I do it. Karma thing mainly.
 
There wouldn't be a first, without the second.

There wouldnt be a second without the first, the two rights are inextractably linked. One cannot exist without the other. Also linked is the concept of property rights.
 
Let's see if I can come up with a means to make everyone either Happy or Unhappy, depending on how you look at it.......

If you wish to deny me my RTKBA on your property, it should have to be indicated at the edge of your property. Whether that is the door to your building, the driveway, walkway, etc.... It should be required to be a large enough sign to ensure it is visible at all times. You should also be required to provide this information to the local and state police agencies and to maintain sufficient liability insurance in case I am assaulted and injured while unable to defend myself while on your property.

If you are a commercial business and you wish to deny me my RTKBA on your property, you should be required to provide a couple things.....

1. A means to legally secure my firearm while I am on your property doing business with you.
2. Armed security to ensure my safety while on your property

I might point out that if one has to have ARMED security on the property they may as well allow people to be armed on their property. :)
 
Great answer:roll:
Like I said before, you obviously don't care about liberty, since you have no problem with big government interventionism. You might as well switch your lean to Liberal, at least it would be intellectually honest.

A little harsh but there is an element of truth. There is a chinese saying that may apply "Be carefull what you wish for, you may well get it."
 
If you were to apply that test to PUBLIC property ie goverment owned, then you would be absolutely correct. You are however applying that scutiny to PRIVATE property thats whole nother ball of wax. Thats a place I cant and wont go. Business is nopublic, employers are not public.

You are making claims without providing your source material. I am providing my source material. Even if I'm wrong, I'm still arguing better than anyone else on this thread, and that alone is enough to win in court.

If you fire an employee just because they have brown eyes, they are going to win a wrongful-termination claim against you and draw unemployment off of you:
Wrongful Termination of At Will Employment

The Civil Rights Act in 1964 extended anti-discrimination protections to employees, whose employment could no longer be terminated for reasons such as their race, gender, skin color, religion, or national origin. Additional legal protections now exist to deter certain forms of age discrimination. Following the creation of these anti-discrimination laws, it became possible for employees to argue that their terminations were "pretextual" - that is, although their employers were citing lawful reasons to terminate their employment, their employers were actually motivated by unlawful discriminatory motives.

~snip~

Some states will permit an "at will" employee to bring a lawsuit on the basis that the employer violated an implied covenant of "good faith and fair dealing" in association with the termination decision. In such states, even with an at-will employee, the employer must extend some degree of fairness in the decision to terminate employment.

I argue that 'lawful possession of a firearm' be added to the list because laws supporting preferences of private business owners to arbitrarily ban a right do not meet SCOTUS "Strict Scrutiny" standards. The typical employee has a need to carry, whereas the typical employer does not have a need to ban.

***
If you remove a customer just because they have brown eyes, you will be cited by the city for braking Public Accommodation codes.

For example:
20-13-23. Public accommodations--Unfair or discriminatory practices. It shall be an unfair or discriminatory practice for any person engaged in the provision of public accommodations because of race, color, creed, religion, sex, ancestry, disability, or national origin, to fail or refuse to provide to any person access to the use of and benefit from the services and facilities of such public accommodations; or to accord adverse, unlawful, or unequal treatment to any person with respect to the availability of such services and facilities, the price or other consideration therefor, the scope and equality thereof, or the terms and conditions under which the same are made available, including terms and conditions relating to credit, payment, warranties, delivery, installation, and repair.

South Dakota Code 20-13-23

The typical customer has a need to carry, whereas the typical bushiness does not have a need to ban.

When you open your business to the public, you have to conduct 'fair and equal treatment' to each person who voluntarily walks through your door. You cannot deny access to your business just because a customer is one of these protected classes. You cannot refuse to sell to a customer just because the customer belongs to one of these classes. You can't do that now, you wouldn't be able to do that if 'lawfully carrying a firearm' were added to the list.

I want to add 'lawfully carrying a firearm' to these classes because I have a need to carry whereas the business does not have a need to deny.

I don't carry for preference, I've actually had to use my gun. No bushiness can demonstrate a streak of lawful CCW carriers committing crimes, that the business would need to ban otherwise lawfull carry.


***
The way you win this argument is to demonstrate a 'need' to keep firearms off your property. 'My property, my rules' fails the SCOTUS "Strict Scrutiny" standard because a right always supersedes preference.
 
Last edited:
I have never agreed to protected classes based on my freedom of association, or not to associate. Have you ever seen a "We reserve the right to refuse service." sign. I have one in my office. I have always believed in the golden rule "Do unto others as you would do for yourself." Its bad business mojo to do otherwise. That said if I dont want to do business with someone for whatever reason, I aint.

How do you balance the rights of a property owner and the rights of free citizens to exercise their god given rights to keep and bear arms? I think Tigger has a very good idea about how to go about it. I carry wherever I can but I dont carry where someone doesnt want me regardless of their reasons. I am polite and respect their wishes in expectation they recipicate. I may not like it but I do it. Karma thing mainly.
Every right has limits.

Try and refuse service to someone strictly because they're black, and see what happens.

Even while fighting to protect my right to carry in public I have acknowledged various limitations on my right. such as only carrying concealed, making my CCW available for verification, and conforming to dress code. I can walk downtown with a loaded assault rifle slung, but that's while on publicly owned property, which is different from privately owned property subject to public accommodation. Private owners have more control over their land, but a total ban goes to far.
 
Last edited:
Every right has limits.

Try and refuse service to someone strictly because they're black, and see what happens.

Even while fighting to protect my right to carry in public I have acknowledged various limitations on my right. such as only carrying concealed, making my CCW available for verification, and conforming to dress code. I can walk downtown with a loaded assault rifle slung, but that's while on publicly owned property, which is different from privately owned property subject to public accommodation. Private owners have more control over their land, but a total ban goes to far.

You keep crying discrimination but can you prove that legally? I suspect if the NRA could prove discrimination that they would have gone for the right to carry firearms anywhere including Government buildings schools and those dangerous work places. Speaking of dangerous work places where a gun should not be allowed because of the potential for accidents around volatile substances, that alone is enough proof that I need to claim that a gun is not safe at my business. If a gun can somehow pose a threat in a area with flammables or explosives then the same threat exists for places without dangerous compounds.

The problem with your argument is that on one hand you tell us that Americans have the right to carry guns on their person anywhere, then on the other hand you tell us well except these places.

If certain places can be gun free zones than other places can be gun free zones. Which shows that it is not always up to the gun owner to decide where he can or cannot carry his gun.
 
You keep crying discrimination but can you prove that legally? I suspect if the NRA could prove discrimination that they would have gone for the right to carry firearms anywhere including Government buildings schools and those dangerous work places.

We had a recent victory:

Citizens with a permit should be allowed to carry onto any public school:
Oregon Firearms Federation

Putting aside for a moment that Oregon does not issue "concealed weapons permits," this school just like every other public school in the state, has NO authority to forbid a person with a concealed handgun license from entering school property. While both Oregon and Federal law forbid people from being on school property with firearms, concealed handgun license holders are exempt from both laws.Oregon statute 166.370 forbids firearms in "public buildings" which schools are, but subsection B says "this section does not apply to:... (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun"

As we have said elsewhere, if you have a child you maycarry unto public school property.

Oregon is not alone, either.
 
Last edited:
We had a recent victory:

Citizens with a permit should be allowed to carry onto any public school:


Oregon is not alone, either.

True in Oregon you can legally carry a concealed hand gun in public buildings. But it is a empty law since if you unholster your weapon you just committed a crime.

Other than schools (because there really is no safe place to shoot with children all around you) I really have nothing against what happens in public buildings. One could obviously argue that a public building is, well public property. But I still do not feel that we need a new law to muddle up our rights. It would be one thing if the NRA was just making a Constitutional case because that would not require writing new intrusive laws. The NRA is making yet another case for the Government to regulate what decisions that a private property owner can make. Which affects all private property. How long until the NRA wants a law that makes it impossible for me to tell someone not to bring a gun into my home? You already made it clear that the Parking lot laws were just a foundation for more laws to come. How many new laws are you guys planning? What other liberties do you guys have your eyes on?
 
True in Oregon you can legally carry a concealed hand gun in public buildings. But it is a empty law since if you unholster your weapon you just committed a crime.
That statement is not true:
166.220 Unlawful use of weapon.

(1)
A person commits the crime of unlawful use of a weapon if the person:
(a) Attempts to use unlawfully against another, or carries or possesses with intent to use unlawfully against another, any dangerous or deadly weapon as defined in ORS 161.015; or
(b) Intentionally discharges a firearm, blowgun, bow and arrow, crossbow or explosive device within the city limits of any city or within residential areas within urban growth boundaries at or in the direction of any person, building, structure or vehicle within the range of the weapon without having legal authority for such discharge.
(2)
This section does not apply to:
(a) Police officers or military personnel in the lawful performance of their official duties;
(b)
Persons lawfully defending life or property as provided in ORS 161.219;
(c) Persons discharging firearms, blowguns, bows and arrows, crossbows or explosive devices upon public or private shooting ranges, shooting galleries or other areas designated and built for the purpose of target shooting;
(d) Persons lawfully engaged in hunting in compliance with rules and regulations adopted by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife; or
(e) An employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, discharging a firearm in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife.
(3) Unlawful use of a weapon is a Class C felony.
[Amended by 1975 c.700 §1; 1985 c.543 §1; 1991 c.797 §1; 2009 c.556 §5]

How long until the NRA wants a law that makes it impossible for me to tell someone not to bring a gun into my home?
Please link to your evidence substantiating your concern.

You already made it clear that the Parking lot laws were just a foundation for more laws to come. How many new laws are you guys planning?
The right of the citizen to otherwise lawfully carry in all places open to the public except locations where a demonstrable 'need' exists to be gun free. This automatically means no one was ever talking about your residence, unless of course you hire employees to work in it.

What other liberties do you guys have your eyes on?

The NRA concerns itself with firearms.

*****
In Oregon, if you have completed training, have passed a background check, and in all ways are otherwise lawfully carrying a legal firearm, you may carry into court houses and public schools, and you may defend yourself and others.

We view this behavior as reasonable and prudent action.
 
Last edited:
That statement is not true:
I said that if you take your gun out of your holster that you broke the law. I said nothing about taking the gun out in a situation that is legal. You are missing my point entirely. My point is that the law is regulating the use of a firearm not actually giving the gun owner any real liberty. If you are in a court room and you take your gun out you will have to surrender your gun to an officer. Clearly the law does not follow the 2nd Amendment bet sets its regulatory restrictions that go beyond the 2nd Amendment. Such laws do harm to the 2nd Amendment since they create precedence that allow statutory laws to exceed the Constitution.


Again my concern is that NRA is using poor legal judgement that are doing more harm to gun rights than good.



Please link to your evidence substantiating your concern.
Link what my concerns? I couldnt possibly think for myself I must parrot someone else?


The right of the citizen to otherwise lawfully carry in all places open to the public except locations where a demonstrable 'need' exists to be gun free. This automatically means no one was ever talking about your residence, unless of course you hire employees to work in it.
Making qualifications for bearing arms is the wrong tactic that will actually just lead us straight into gun control. As I said before other country with very strict gun controls require you to justify why you should own a gun. Justifying why there should be no gun in asny given location just opens the door for legislation that requires a gun owner to justify their needs.



The NRA concerns itself with firearms.
Well duh its in their name, but perhaps you should start here: NRA NO! - Gun Owners Against NRA Lies and Deceit The only communication with the subcommittee by GO-NH/Hohenwarter was via an e-mail which suggested the so-called “NRA amendment.” This amendment was considered and rejected by the committee, in part because it was too extensive, proposed new gun control measures, instituted new criminal penalties, and added NICS checks on licenses. For those reasons and others it was felt the amendment should be offered as a bill of its own so it would go through the proper process of a public hearing and vetting. HB330 was again heard in Executive Session, where the committee discusses the pros and cons of the bill, and finally it went before the whole House of Representatives for a vote of “ought to pass” or “inexpedient to legislate.” The bill passed out of the House with a large margin of victory and was sent to the Senate.

Just prior to the full vote of the House, the “NRA amendment” was

I noticed that you asserted the Castle Doctrine Tonight at a Tea Party meeting in Reynoldsville, PA in front of a group of about 30 people Senator Scarnati stated that he is aware that the NRA liaison has been working with Senator Leech on a compromise for the Florida Loophole and HB40.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. The NRA is playing games with your rights.



the Castle Doctrine is actually a non gun issue. It just states that deadly force not just guns.


About NRA No

For far too long the NRA has convinced gun owners across America that they were working to stop anti gun legislation, all while they were really working to line their pockets with millions of dollars.
To make matters worse the NRA has actually been helping anti gun groups stop laws from being passed that would enhance the rights of gun owners.
We are here to expose these lies and back stabbing!


*****
In Oregon, if you have completed training, have passed a background check, and in all ways are otherwise lawfully carrying a legal firearm, you may carry into court houses and public schools, and you may defend yourself and others.

We view this behavior as reasonable and prudent action.
The Oregon laws are just gun control laws with a carrot out front to fool the uneducated gun owner.

NRA Members Agree: More Gun Regulation Makes Sense | ThinkProgress
 
Back
Top Bottom