Look I never said that you cannot take a gun where you want unless you are on property that the property owner does not want a gun being carried by a guest on the property.
An employee is not a guest, she is an
employee, so again you are changing the goal posts.
You should stop justifying we you carry a weapon at all.
Not likely to ever happen.
The reason is that in places like Cuba...
No one's talking about Cuba.
Owning and bearing arms is protected by the Constitution. Private property is also protected by the Constitution. When you want to carry your gun on someone elses property they have the right to tell you that you cannot come on their property with that gun just as they have the right to bar you from entering their property gun or not.
I'm carrying the gun within my own personal space. If your camp ground is your privat property, you can't tell me not to keep a gun in my camper, because my camper and the lot you rent to me is my personal space. You even have to give me 24Hr notice to enter the lot,
and you have to have a good reason, a 'need'. My car is my personal space, that's why you can't stop me from keeping a gun in my car. The aria imediatly surrounding my body is also my personal space, and is protected by my right to privacy. You have no right to regulate my personal space any more than I have a right to tell you how to run your business.
Now if I were to allow that firearm to leave my personal space while on your property, than I have a problem. The gun has to remain within my personal space for it to remain protected by my right to privacy and my right to be free from discrimination.
The key is that the property owner gets the final say so on what happens on their own property.
That's where you're consistently wrong. The property owner does not have the final say. In my line of work, the various inspectors and ultimately the city has the final say. As the owner you can want X, Y and Z all day long, but you have to follow the law. Your property has to be zoned correctly, and you can be turned down by the zoning comity. Your plans have to be drawn by a licensed architect or otherwise be approved by the city prior to your build. You have to apply for a permit and meet the requirements thereof. You have to pass various inspections. You have to abide by labor laws, public accommodation, any special industry-specific regulation, etc.
You don't have the final say. The scope of your liberty is narrower than you think.
The guest is only in the position of pointing to an agreement with the property owner not being in the position to tell the property owner what to do.
My carrying a gun is not telling the property owner to do anything. However, as it happens I do otherwise have to tell property owners what to do in the normal coarse of my job. It can be something as simple as the minimum required space between a fence and the building; the home owner wants it 1 foot away, but if the local code says otherwise, I tell that to the owner
(I keep a couple code books in my car so I can point to the exact regulation and let them read it for themselves).
James Madison
"Government is instituted to protect property of every sort .... This being the end of government, that is NOT a just government,... nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has ... is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest."
That's precisely what I'm telling you. My car and my personal space are my property, not yours. You disrespect private property rights when you try to tell me I can't have a gun within it. That's exactly like telling me I can't have a gun in my car or home. Exactly the same in every way.
Gun owners are trying to force property owners on what can and cannot be on their property.
Property owners are trying to tell gun owners what can and cannot be don on their property.
Once you take away the property owners right to decide what happens on their property what comes next?
Once you take away a person's right to be secure in their own personal space, what's next? Their car? Their home? Their land? You undermine private property rights when you support invading a person's personal space, because that's the whole basis for you have any rights to your car, home or land at all.
Look at all of the laws that us property owners must endure as it is. Now you want me to be forced to allow some asshole with a gun to come on to my property?
Yup.
Seriously I do allow people with guns on my property. I have some clients that pack at all times but these people I trust. But I do not trust everyone and I reserve the right to decide who I trust with a gun on my property and who I do not trust with a gun on my property.
If you don't trust them then they shouldn't be on your property at all, gun or not. If you can't trust the person then why would you allow them around your family with power tools? Why would you sleep under a roof they made? Why would plug anything into electrical wiring the ran? Why would you trust a security system they installed? Why would you give them keys to you home and allow them to work while you're gon?
And if need be I will you my 2nd Advisement right to enforce my property rights. Because obviously if a man tells you that you are not allowed on their property for any reason and you refuse that command then you pose a risk to the property owner. You are a person with a gun refusing to obey the legal commend of a legal property owner. If that doesnt scream danger to you then I do not know what does.
Then you don't know what does.
You should know that in order to execute castle doctrine, I have to otherwise be committing a felony. Trespassing alone isn't enough. So if you hire me, learn I have a gun and tell me to leave, and instead of leaving immediately I start packing up my tools, or I sit at my truck in your driveway and call my boss, you can't do a damn thing except call the police, which I've probably already don myself because you're a raging client who hired me and then pulled a gun.
What am I talking about? Jeez I wrote it down what do you want? Here is what I said in context: "As gun safety dictates high intensity populated locations are not a good place to discharge a weapon. Inside a poorly lit movie theater jam packed full of people would mean that if a citizen was carrying a gun that that person would have been hard pressed to find a clear target."
I'm still looking forward to your link on that.
A hand gun which would be the only logical firearm that someone would be carrying inside a movie theater (outside of the psycho with the armor and weapons that he had) is really only good for close range in that situation. I suggested a knife since you would be more likely to stab the guy a close quarters rather than pull your weapon hit the safety, chamber a round and fire. Not saying that a hand gun is worse than a knife though, that would be silly. But I think that in subduing the shooter a knife in that case could have worked without risking bystanders.
If I'm going to select a melee weapon then I'll just use the hammer or box-cutter on my tool belt.
A risk to bystanders is a concern every gun owner thinks about, and is why there are so many different types of bullets. I load Hydra-Shock hollow points
(the absolute best round to guard against over penetration) in my .38 for just that reason. I have a Crimson Trace laser dot in the hand grip. I practice different shooting situations at the range. I do more to be a safe shooter then you do to be a safe driver.
When I get home I'm trading in my .38 for a similar pistol which is chambered .357magnum. I have 5 different loads for this pistol depending on what I'm doing. I have a .38 target load and a .357 target load for practice. I have a .38 hydra-shock hollow point for carrying in town. I have a .357mag bird-shot round for home defense over night, and I have a .357mag flat-tip round for anti-bear/mountain-lion use while out in the hills.
And to be sure I never said anything about carrying a weapon in populated areas as if the mere carrying is dangerous. What I asserted was that shooting in a dark theater jam packed full of Batman fans would not be safe even though there was a gun man doing the same thing. Yes you have to do something to stop the psycho but just having a gun does not mean that one will be successful.
Quite right, just having the gun isn't enough. That's why I bring military and civilian training with me, also.
In other words this my property get the hell off it and buy your own damn property quit trying to dictate what i do on my own property. You are starting to whine like a Socialist wanting to make private property a collective state. hands off!
One day I hope you can learn to respect private property rights and stop trying to tell people what to do with their personal space.
For the causal reader:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_space
