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Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

Do you think water boarding is torture?


  • Total voters
    128
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Still mistakenly riding the "it's not the same" train? I didn't say it was the same. I said if we did to a detainee many of the things we do to trainees on a daily basis, many on the left would call it torture.

But hey, if your only concern is trying to "win" a debate by repeating that they are not "the same"....knock yourself out.

What we've done has not been the same, and this is the point. Trainees only get a taste. In a safe environment, with protections that the trainee has reason to trust.

But don't compare the two, and I wouldn't keep correcting you.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

What we've done has not been the same, and this is the point. Trainees only get a taste. In a safe environment, with protections that the trainee has reason to trust.

But don't compare the two, and I wouldn't keep correcting you.

Take an "arab looking" trainee, put him in a robe and sandals, video him going through the OC course then put it on youtube and see how many people think that it is a video of soldiers "torturing" a detainee.

That's the bit you keep ignoring.

Forget our previous discussion on waterboarding.

If we did to detainees some of the things we do to trainees, it would be considered torture
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Take an "arab looking" trainee, put him in a robe and sandals, video him going through the OC course then put it on youtube and see how many people think that it is a video of soldiers "torturing" a detainee.

That's the bit you keep ignoring.

Forget our previous discussion on waterboarding.

If we did to detainees some of the things we do to trainees, it would be considered torture

Hardly, as long as we knew whoever it was was going through training, we know there was a difference. A video only gives us a start. Once we know who they are and what is happening, we know the difference.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Hardly, as long as we knew whoever it was was going through training, we know there was a difference. A video only gives us a start. Once we know who they are and what is happening, we know the difference.

A difference that makes no difference is no difference.

If we ran a detainee through the OC training course, it would be considered "torture"
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

The answer, from my perspective, is obvious.

Waterboarding is torture because it make the person feel like they're being drowned.

A better question is whether or not it is acceptable to use in gathering resources.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

No, many men shed blood for our country...what's a little water now and then to those who are willing to step on those rights or even black them out for their own selfish wants.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

A difference that makes no difference is no difference.

If we ran a detainee through the OC training course, it would be considered "torture"

No it wouldn't. You're allowing your bias toward waht you consider left to sway you. No training would be considered torture, as the purpose, the actual mechanics and mental expectations on all sides are different.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

No it wouldn't. You're allowing your bias toward waht you consider left to sway you. No training would be considered torture, as the purpose, the actual mechanics and mental expectations on all sides are different.

so you would have no problem with taking a detainee out and spraying OC in their eyes and then making them run through an obstacle course while fighting off guys trying to knock them to the ground?
 
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Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

so you would have no problem with taking a detainee out and spraying OC in their eyes and then making them run through an obstacle course while fighting off guys trying to knock them to the ground?

Agian, if they were under the exact same conditions as training, it wouldn't be a problem. But that includes them being set up, explained to, and knowing they are merely getting the same taste we all got in training.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Agian, if they were under the exact same conditions as training, it wouldn't be a problem. But that includes them being set up, explained to, and knowing they are merely getting the same taste we all got in training.

yeah right. your denial is laughable.

the end
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Using the children's golden do...treat others how you wish to be treated-with a slight twist to it.
Only torture to the means of that that the torturer can handle
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Is this thread still going on? Waterboarding is torture. There is no debate. There is no question.

Anybody who thinks otherwise needs a serious labotomy quick.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

What you might call hell we would call:

(“Tuesday”)

Ah, I gotcha. So if we do it to our troops, then by definition, that isn't torture.

Neat. Then all we need to do is bring back the rack, the iron maiden, etc., and those will no longer be considered torture devices.

Obviously you've never been through any military training or been deployed to a combat theater.

FWIW: waterboarding does not include flogging, burning or beatings so your infantile attempt at sarcasm totally misses the mark

As I was saying.

Nice smugness, BTW.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Ah, I gotcha. So if we do it to our troops, then by definition, that isn't torture.

Neat. Then all we need to do is bring back the rack, the iron maiden, etc., and those will no longer be considered torture devices.

I bet the troops will love it... we stable their balls to a table and then we are able to do it to the enemy.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Yes. Waterboarding will bring bad intel. some of the intel that led us into Iraq bad intel wasobtained through waterboarding and proved to be wrong.

Drowning is the most painful of deaths and a human will say "anything to escape".

Saying "anything" can lead to bad intel, war, injustice and harm our country.

Waterboarding is torture and America should be the high ground. There are more effective means to gather intel without committing crimes of war.
 
Yes. Waterboarding will bring bad intel. some of the intel that led us into Iraq bad intel wasobtained through waterboarding and proved to be wrong.

Drowning is the most painful of deaths and a human will say "anything to escape".

Saying "anything" can lead to bad intel, war, injustice and harm our country.

Waterboarding is torture and America should be the high ground. There are more effective means to gather intel without committing crimes of war.

If simple questioning might bring bad intel, should we stop doing that too?

I agree we should try to maintain the moral high ground, but that means different things to different people. Is shooting a man in the face in battle (which is legal) some how more moral that slapping a man with flex cuffs?
 
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Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Yes. Waterboarding will bring bad intel. some of the intel that led us into Iraq bad intel wasobtained through waterboarding and proved to be wrong.

Drowning is the most painful of deaths and a human will say "anything to escape".

Saying "anything" can lead to bad intel, war, injustice and harm our country.

Waterboarding is torture and America should be the high ground. There are more effective means to gather intel without committing crimes of war.

 
1.If simple questioning might bring bad intel, should we stop doing that too?

2.I agree we should try to maintain the moral high ground, but that means different things to different people. Is shooting a man in the face in battle (which is legal) some how more moral that slapping a man with flex cuffs?

1. No, of course not yet I was not suggesting an alternative of just simple questions. There are evidenced based methods to get correct intel (albeit all intel should be verified as much as possible on a pow source).

2. The moral high ground reference is not related to defending or combat in battle ... however abiding by the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (United Nations Convention) when we are invading a country because we declare the leader of the country tortures and violates human rights ... is immoral, UnAmerican, illogical and endangers our troops. Your analogy is illogical.

The waterboard questions references treatment of POW's and not combat related operations.
 
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If simple questioning might bring bad intel, should we stop doing that too?

I agree we should try to maintain the moral high ground, but that means different things to different people. Is shooting a man in the face in battle (which is legal) some how more moral that slapping a man with flex cuffs?

There's something in between. And there are actual measures of effectiveness. Proper interogation, absent torture has proven to be more effective. And your analogy doesn't really work.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Drowning is the most painful of deaths and a human will say "anything to escape".

This just simply is not true. There are dozens of ways to die that are much more painful than drowning.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

I'm not just talking about terrorists....I'm talking about any nation that we might be at war with. When you stoop to the level of your enemy and engage in torture, it opens our men and women of the military up to the danger of being subjected to it....afterall, if we are a nation that tortures in violation of the generva convention, it is kind of hard for us to take the high ground. I think we owe our men and women of the military at LEAST that.

As I was always taught growing up....its always better to take the high road. When you lower your values and morals in order to obtain a single victory....it cheapens us.

Perhaps you dont know but they are already subject to that torture and more, remember the beheadings? I do. I dont condone torture its really quite pointless. We dont take war seriously anymore and this is the reason we have to stay in these countries for so long. War is organized destruction and murder. Nothing more. There is NO honor in it. The sooner we recognize this fact the better off we will be. William Sherman is probably the most asute general we ever had. He believed in total war. You warned the civilians in the area you were coming. They were warned if they cooperated in ANY way with the enemy their lives and property were forfiet. He left those who did nothing alone, the rest he burned their houses to the ground set their crops ablaze and killed their livestock after taking what could used by his army. When enemy tried to use human sheilds and used mines, Sherman had the sheilds shot and used the POWs he captured as mine detectors. Human shields and mines were not used for long. Its time we took the gloves off.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Perhaps you dont know but they are already subject to that torture and more, remember the beheadings? I do. I dont condone torture its really quite pointless. We dont take war seriously anymore and this is the reason we have to stay in these countries for so long. War is organized destruction and murder. Nothing more. There is NO honor in it. The sooner we recognize this fact the better off we will be. William Sherman is probably the most asute general we ever had. He believed in total war. You warned the civilians in the area you were coming. They were warned if they cooperated in ANY way with the enemy their lives and property were forfiet. He left those who did nothing alone, the rest he burned their houses to the ground set their crops ablaze and killed their livestock after taking what could used by his army. When enemy tried to use human sheilds and used mines, Sherman had the sheilds shot and used the POWs he captured as mine detectors. Human shields and mines were not used for long. Its time we took the gloves off.

Interesting bit about Sherman. Did not know that he gave his would-be targets a choice to flee.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Interesting bit about Sherman. Did not know that he gave his would-be targets a choice to flee.
Sherman is probably one of the most misunderstood individauls in history I would say. Then again he wasnt excactly the easiest charactor to know either. He is not what the southerners made him out to be, but neither was he what the north made him out to be too.

He hated war with a passion. The irony is that hatered made him pretty good at it. There was cold logical reason for leaving the civilians alone if they were not helping the enemy, and that was simply to deny the South as much logistical support as he could. It was easier and faster to threaten and follow though on a few, to help spread the word that he was dead serious. He felt that the more brutal he made the war the faster it would come to an end. He wanted to spread the misery as it were.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Perhaps you dont know but they are already subject to that torture and more, remember the beheadings? I do. I dont condone torture its really quite pointless. We dont take war seriously anymore and this is the reason we have to stay in these countries for so long. War is organized destruction and murder. Nothing more. There is NO honor in it. The sooner we recognize this fact the better off we will be. William Sherman is probably the most asute general we ever had. He believed in total war. You warned the civilians in the area you were coming. They were warned if they cooperated in ANY way with the enemy their lives and property were forfiet. He left those who did nothing alone, the rest he burned their houses to the ground set their crops ablaze and killed their livestock after taking what could used by his army. When enemy tried to use human sheilds and used mines, Sherman had the sheilds shot and used the POWs he captured as mine detectors. Human shields and mines were not used for long. Its time we took the gloves off.

You are exactly right......The old saying "War is Hell" is applicable.....I am so tired of people whinning on the left that we are so mean. Do whatever it takes, the hell with the bleeding heart Liberals.
 
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