Why would you own an assault rifle?

DVSentinel said:

You make the assumption that with other issues going on with our government, that we would tolerate such a renewed ban. It is just as likely at this point that such an attempt at a ban would trigger revolution as it is to be tolerated. 50/50 at this point, or maybe not.

Before you pull the trigger on such a thing, you might want to be real sure of your target.

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It always amuses me when people here threaten violent revolution, when they can't even win enough people over to their political position to win an election Like people are going to say well it wasn't worth voting for, but sure I'll risk my life and join up with you to kill my neighbors and overthrow my government, what the hell!l :lamo

DVSentinel said:

You make the assumption that with other issues going on with our government, that we would tolerate such a renewed ban. It is just as likely at this point that such an attempt at a ban would trigger revolution as it is to be tolerated. 50/50 at this point, or maybe not.

Before you pull the trigger on such a thing, you might want to be real sure of your target.

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MOLON LABE!


'Nuff said.

Catawba said:

It always amuses me when people here threaten violent revolution, when they can't even win enough people over to their political position to win an election Like people are going to say well it wasn't worth voting for, but sure I'll risk my life and join up with you to kill my neighbors and overthrow my government, what the hell!l :lamo

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Maybe you think I am threatening, no, I am predicting. With the House of Representatives deeply held by Republicans, there is no chance of such a law passing before the election. That leaves only Executive Orders as a possible means of bringing it about. Even Carter wasn't that blantently stupid.

After the elections, it is possible, but not very likely that the Dems could reclaim the House. It is more likely that they will loose control of the Senate, and they definitly will not be able to stop a philibuster by Republicans. End result, no such law is going to be able to get through Congress.

That leaves the President, either Romney or Obama. Romney certainly would not attempt such a thing through Executive Orders and Obama would almost assuradly spark revolution if he tried. Even if Obama didn't trigger a general revolution, he would suddenly have almost 100 million people looking for an opportunity.

So the earliest possiblity of anyone getting such a ban through congress would be after the 2014 Elections, which will more than likely hinge on the Economy between now and then, or on how pissed Americans have become with Obama, should he keep the office. "Anti-Government" Militias have grown tremendously under Obama, right now, the only thing really holding them back is the lack of cohesive leadership. Give them a good enough reason, and that powder keg explodes. Give someone who is currently teetering and could be that leadership a reason to come forward and all that "disorganized" rabble becomes cohesive and very very dangerous. Once the first incident occurrs, Katie bar the door, because people are going to be arming themselves and taking sides.

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Catawba said:

View attachment 67131984

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Cute picture, to bad that one of the adults didn't have a means of defending them, say a gun also, then the murderer wouldn't have been the only one armed.

DVSentinel said:

Cute picture, to bad that one of the adults didn't have a means of defending them, say a gun also, then the murderer wouldn't have been the only one armed.

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Wonderful, then we would have deaths by the gunman and deaths from crossfire from the adults.

Or, we could develop more effective gun laws as the other wealthy populous nations have done:

Catawba said:

View attachment 67131984

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Typical leftwing nonsense--blame the right not the killer

should we blame the ACLU or NAACP for all the street crime that kills far more people than active shooters?

Last I checked schools are gun free zones meaning mass murderers can kill without fear of immediate retaliation

a perfect liberal environment--lots of innocent blood available to attack our rights and no chance "the poor misunderstood" killer is going to be given what he really deserves-a bullet to the head

Catawba said:

Wonderful, then we would have deaths by the gunman and deaths from crossfire from the adults.

Or, we could develop more effective gun laws as the other wealthy populous nations have done:

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why do libs always ignore the most important fact in comparing apples to oranges

they ban guns in England and their violent crime rate goes up

we expand gun ownership and the carrying of weapons and crime goes down


what really bothers you Catawba? is it that 60's peacenik utopian nonsense or is it that you don't like the thought of some social outcast being killed by an intended victims

or is it you just don't like the politics of pro gun groups that tend to support GOP candidates because dems tend to vote for gun bans

TurtleDude said:

Typical leftwing nonsense--blame the right not the killer

should we blame the ACLU or NAACP for all the street crime that kills far more people than active shooters?

Last I checked schools are gun free zones meaning mass murderers can kill without fear of immediate retaliation

a perfect liberal environment--lots of innocent blood available to attack our rights and no chance "the poor misunderstood" killer is going to be given what he really deserves-a bullet to the head

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GUN FREE ZONES?

What is the murder rate in those zones compared to places which are not?

Catawba said:

Wonderful, then we would have deaths by the gunman and deaths from crossfire from the adults.

Or, we could develop more effective gun laws as the other wealthy populous nations have done:

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Nice chart, got one that shows how many of those murders were done with legally owned weapons vs illegally owned?
Got one that shows the demographics, say suburban, urban and rural?
Got a workable plan to collect those estimated 270 million (yeah, like that is anywhere near accurate) guns from owners who don't want to give them up?
Got one that shows how many gun owners are the victims vs non-gun owners?
Got anything that shows how many of those countries had gun laws similar to ours during our history and then successfully changed them?
Got anything that shows the actual number of guns in these countries vs the number that the government actually knows about?
Got anything that shows the success rate against gun smuglers throughout the world?
Coccaine, Marajuana, herion, and other drugs are illegal in the US and illegal to import, got any evidence of shortages of these drugs on the streets?
Got any evidence that we have in anyway been successful of stopping the import of these drugs?
How many guns do underaged gang-bangers have even though they cannot legally buy them?
How many convicted felons currently have guns, considering that they are not allow to own them or purchase them?
Why do we have the term "Axe Murderer" instead of "gun murderer"?
What is the murder rate in all these countries using other weapons instead of guns?
How many in America and World wide die each year from misuse of automobiles?
Since more people die in cars than to gun violence, should we ban them also?

haymarket said:

GUN FREE ZONES?

What is the murder rate in those zones compared to places which are not?

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well what we do know is that almost EVERY major case of active shooters have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES

including

Aurora
Columbine

Luby's (Killeen Texas)

Stockton California (Patrick Purdy)

U of Texas -Charles Whitman

Virginia Tech

McDonalds at San Ysidro (Huberty)


Fort Hood Texas

DVSentinel said:

Nice chart, got one that shows how many of those murders were done with legally owned weapons vs illegally owned?
Got one that shows the demographics, say suburban, urban and rural?
Got a workable plan to collect those estimated 270 million (yeah, like that is anywhere near accurate) guns from owners who don't want to give them up?
Got one that shows how many gun owners are the victims vs non-gun owners?
Got anything that shows how many of those countries had gun laws similar to ours during our history and then successfully changed them?
Got anything that shows the actual number of guns in these countries vs the number that the government actually knows about?
Got anything that shows the success rate against gun smuglers throughout the world?
Coccaine, Marajuana, herion, and other drugs are illegal in the US and illegal to import, got any evidence of shortages of these drugs on the streets?
Got any evidence that we have in anyway been successful of stopping the import of these drugs?
How many guns do underaged gang-bangers have even though they cannot legally buy them?
How many convicted felons currently have guns, considering that they are not allow to own them or purchase them?
Why do we have the term "Axe Murderer" instead of "gun murderer"?
What is the murder rate in all these countries using other weapons instead of guns?
How many in America and World wide die each year from misuse of automobiles?
Since more people die in cars than to gun violence, should we ban them also?

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If most car enthusiasts were republicans and if Road and Track normally endorsed Republicans and if the AAA gave most of its lobbying dollars to GOP candidates you can bet your last dollar he'd want to ban cars

TurtleDude said:

If most car enthusiasts were republicans and if Road and Track normally endorsed Republicans and if the AAA gave most of its lobbying dollars to GOP candidates you can bet your last dollar he'd want to ban cars

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Since from his other post else, there is little doubt that is a true faitholder in the Al Gore church of envirimentalist, he probably wants to ban them anyways.

But I don't think I can change his mind about anything, I am giving more and more data points that the silent audience here can look up to make their choices.
Say like looking up crime rates in America vs Gun ownership rates. Inclucing factors like when states started putting restriction on guns and passing laws to take our ability to defend ourselves away.
Or maybe how many of those countries he listed have been successfully invaded since the time that America was founded.

Sure, lots of data to research and find, but paints a completely different picture than the anti-gun people want us to know.

DVSentinel said:

Since from his other post else, there is little doubt that is a true faitholder in the Al Gore church of envirimentalist, he probably wants to ban them anyways.

But I don't think I can change his mind about anything, I am giving more and more data points that the silent audience here can look up to make their choices.
Say like looking up crime rates in America vs Gun ownership rates. Inclucing factors like when states started putting restriction on guns and passing laws to take our ability to defend ourselves away.
Or maybe how many of those countries he listed have been successfully invaded since the time that America was founded.

Sure, lots of data to research and find, but paints a completely different picture than the anti-gun people want us to know.

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when the dems first started the gun control nonsense in the 1960s it was not designed initially as an attack on gun owners but rather as a defense against the Nixonian claim that dems were weak on crime

only after gun groups objected to the silly laws and started supporting politicians who made fun of the dems attempt to be "tough on crime" did the dems start targeting pro gun groups and people whose votes were based on gun issues for harassment

TurtleDude said:

well what we do know is that almost EVERY major case of active shooters have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES

including

Aurora
Columbine

Luby's (Killeen Texas)

Stockton California (Patrick Purdy)

U of Texas -Charles Whitman

Virginia Tech

McDonalds at San Ysidro (Huberty)


Fort Hood Texas

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Forth Hood was really bad, these were soldiers, the ones we give some of the most powerful weapons in the world to, but we wouldn't allow them to be armed day to day. Seems to me if carrying and using arms is part of your job, you should always carry them and always be concious of the safety of them. Personally, I think Military personnel should fully armed and carrying full loads of ammo at all times, and I mean locked and loaded, not banded with "safety" seals. It would certainly made a difference in the Air Force, too many outside the security police really didn't know squat about safety and handling of weapons when they went deployed and got issued them. It was so bad in some places, that during Iraqi Freedom, our arms were locked in a box at the back of the airplane and only two people had the key. Like if we went down, that would of helped us any, might just as well kept them in a locker in the states.

Catawba said:

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Since when do you support carrying a gun onto school grounds?

Jerry said:

Since when do you support carrying a gun onto school grounds?

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I suspect what he supports is safe working environments for active shooters.

TurtleDude said:

I suspect what he supports is safe working environments for active shooters.

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When I saw the pic, I saved it because I thought it made a great point about mass shootings in gun-free zones and that a ban from carrying on school grounds was the infringement the pic was against.

Jerry said:

When I saw the pic, I saved it because I thought it made a great point about mass shootings in gun-free zones and that a ban from carrying on school grounds was the infringement the pic was against.

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well that is what smart people who understand that active shooters don't obey gun laws would think

Jerry said:

Since when do you support carrying a gun onto school grounds?

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I don't, you have misread the discussion, and/or misinterpreted the cartoon.

TurtleDude said:

Typical leftwing nonsense--blame the right not the killer

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I blame the killers, and our lax gun laws that allow the killers both in this country and in Mexico easy access to all the equipment they need for a massacre.

TurtleDude said:

why do libs always ignore the most important fact in comparing apples to oranges

they ban guns in England and their violent crime rate goes up

we expand gun ownership and the carrying of weapons and crime goes down

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Apples to apples is comparing the US to other wealthy populous nations. As anyone can plainly see, England gun deaths are only a tiny fraction of ours per million population.

The facts show we have the highest gun ownership rate of any of the wealthy populated countries, yet we have the highest intentional homicides rate by firearms by far.

TurtleDude said:

well what we do know is that almost EVERY major case of active shooters have taken place in GUN FREE ZONES

including

Aurora
Columbine

Luby's (Killeen Texas)

Stockton California (Patrick Purdy)

U of Texas -Charles Whitman

Virginia Tech

McDonalds at San Ysidro (Huberty)


Fort Hood Texas

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Simply stating that does precious little for a thorough understanding as to the designation and what it means for our society. We need much much more data.

We need to know how much of America is a gun free zone?

Are gun free zones really gun free or is that label a misnomer and inaccurate?

What is the murder and crime rate like in gun free zones compared to non gun free zones?

Has the designation of certain areas as gun free zones lowered the crime rate or murder rate?

Simply to rail that gun free zones are bad without actual data and reliable information is highly misleading and does a great disservice to any honest discussion.

Catawba said:

I don't, you have misread the discussion, and/or misinterpreted the cartoon.

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The cartoon emphasizes 'shall not be infringed' and shows dead people in a zone where the 2A is infringed. If you support the infringement of a gun-free zone in schools, then you support the dead adult in that cartoon not being able to defend the kids in his classroom, which is why they all died.

The cartoon either supports school shootings, or sends the message for the need not to infringe on the 2A regarding schools because of school shootings.

Catawba said:

I blame the killers, and our lax gun laws that allow the killers both in this country and in Mexico easy access to all the equipment they need for a massacre.

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That is a silly rant given Mexico has draconian gun laws

you also fail to deal with

England bans handguns-handgun violence increases


we permit carrying handguns-violent crime decreases

its pretty obvious you just don't like the politics of the pro gun movement

they oppose the utopian pillow headed peacenik socialism you have advocated for years