Why would you own an assault rifle?

Catawba said:

They were getting them from the US long before this administration. That is why there was a sting operation to begin with.

What you and the others haven't addressed is why these guns are the gun of choice by the Mexican drug cartel.

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Because they work, are easily available and they do not care a lick about "legality" since they are criminals by trade. Perhaps the SAME reason that the cartels are the seller of choice for recreational drugs in the U.S., they have no competition. Mexico "outalws" most guns yet, as with ALL other laws, they are ignored by the criminal cartels. It would pose some SLIGHT additional "costs" on the cartels if they had to rely on alternate sources of weapons, but they simply view ALL laws as "obstacles" to be overcome, not really as a show stopper.

Catawba said:

They were getting them from the US long before this administration. That is why there was a sting operation to begin with.

What you and the others haven't addressed is why these guns are the gun of choice by the Mexican drug cartel.

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Because, thankfully, they are usually stupid, poorly trained and really don't understand proper application of deadly force or efficient use of force. Unfortunately, they do know a little something about fear and intimidation. Unfortunately for the Mexican people, their police and military are not only corrupt, but almost as poorly trained. Well the magazines may give them more bullets to shoot, someone well trained and disciplined could be even more effective with a Revolver. Of course, someone well trained and disciplined using a 20 round mag will be more effective with it than with a revolver.

If these drug guys and even Gang Bangers in the US would simply train themselves, they would kill more of their targets and would kill far less bystanders. Whether the used a 100 round, full auto AR-15 based weapon (which actually sucks pretty bad on full auto) or a old single action revolver. A proper selected round from a well aimed gun against selected targets is much more efficient way to kill than just spraying ammo in a general direction. However, spraying ammo is a fairly effective fear weapon, just not an effective kill weapon.

Catawba said:

They were getting them from the US long before this administration. That is why there was a sting operation to begin with.

What you and the others haven't addressed is why these guns are the gun of choice by the Mexican drug cartel.

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Probably the same reason I own such rifles: they are good and effective weapons. That's why I have them.

Goshin said:

Probably the same reason I own such rifles: they are good and effective weapons. That's why I have them.

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What does the Mexican drug cartel find them good and effective at?

DVSentinel said:

Well the magazines may give them more bullets to shoot..............

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Thank you!

Catawba said:

The Mexican Drug cartel seems to have great success with the semi-automatic weapons they are getting from the US that are legal here, but illegal in Mexico.

From above: "Mexican law enforcement officials report that certain types of rifles such as AK variants with detachable magazines are being used more frequently by drug trafficking organizations."

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So what? They are illegall in Mexico, but the cartels have them. You can thank Holder and the justice department for making it easier for them, oh, and by the way, they have more untraceable guns there than traceable, the traceable ones are from the U.S. because we are one of the few countries that require serial numbers to be included.

Catawba said:

Has nothing to do with my post.

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Has everything to do with your post, you falsely claimed that some assault rifles are readily available. Legally they are not.

Catawba said:

What does the Mexican drug cartel find them good and effective at?

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Besides fighting each other and the police, they find them most effective at terrorizing a population where the law abiding Mexican citizen is disarmed.

Catawba said:

The Mexican Drug cartel seems to have great success with the semi-automatic weapons they are getting from the US that are legal here, but illegal in Mexico.

From above: "Mexican law enforcement officials report that certain types of rifles such as AK variants with detachable magazines are being used more frequently by drug trafficking organizations."

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what does that have to do with the topic? Illegal use of weapons by foreigners has absolutely no relevance to honest Americans owning similar weapons

TurtleDude said:

what does that have to do with the topic? Illegal use of weapons by foreigners has absolutely no relevance to honest Americans owning similar weapons

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Well, I think the fact that over a million of their citizens will attempt to get to our side of the border each year, it might come into play. Especially when our current leadership not only doesn't want to do anything to stop them from comming but has public fought against taking reasonable steps to stop them from voting in our upcoming election. As a citizen of a border state, it plays very heavy here, after all, we need to have the means to fight off these cartel guys that keep coming accross into our state and causing problems.

DVSentinel said:

Well, I think the fact that over a million of their citizens will attempt to get to our side of the border each year, it might come into play. Especially when our current leadership not only doesn't want to do anything to stop them from comming but has public fought against taking reasonable steps to stop them from voting in our upcoming election. As a citizen of a border state, it plays very heavy here, after all, we need to have the means to fight off these cartel guys that keep coming accross into our state and causing problems.

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well that is a good point. My suggestion is to Annex Mexico to be those missing states 51-57 and then turn loose a bunch of the Special Forces guys home from Iraq to clean out the cartels

TurtleDude said:

You know that is an honest position

I don't do golf so I don't own golf clubs

I don't do ballet so I don't own a leotard or ballet shoes

I don't bowl anymore so I sold the ball I had

but I am not going to tell someone else its silly to own a set of irons, a tutu or a bunch of bowling balls (my friends say they have different balls depending on how slick or dry the lanes are)

its about choice!!

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TBH, I do think it is a little unnecessary to own an assault rifle. If you are a high profile target, like a rich person or a witness against the Mafia it makes sense. As a sporting weapon it is fine to have as well. For self-defense it seems a little unnecessary. First off, though, I don't understand guns enough to have an opinion that should be legislated. I don't think, however, what is unnecessary should be illegal. I think it is silly to own a Mac but I will not make it illegal. Silliness isn't a crime. Again, since I am illiterate in the matter I cannot be a complete judge of gun silliness anyway.

I don't do golf so I don't own golf clubs

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A rich person who doesn't play golf??!!!?!11?!! :shock:

MadLib said:

TBH, I do think it is a little unnecessary to own an assault rifle. If you are a high profile target, like a rich person or a witness against the Mafia it makes sense. As a sporting weapon it is fine to have as well. For self-defense it seems a little unnecessary. First off, though, I don't understand guns enough to have an opinion that should be legislated. I don't think, however, what is unnecessary should be illegal. I think it is silly to own a Mac but I will not make it illegal. Silliness isn't a crime. Again, since I am illiterate in the matter I cannot be a complete judge of gun silliness anyway.



A rich person who doesn't play golf??!!!?!11?!! :shock:

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I like shooting and competing with them (the semi auto ones) and if I could buy one at the same price civilian law enforcement agencies buy them for I'd get a select fire one. Since civilian LE Agencies have decreed these weapons ideal for somewhat trained police officers to use in a civilian urban environment for SELF DEFENSE, I too want to have the most suitable weapon as well

MadLib said:

TBH, I do think it is a little unnecessary to own an assault rifle. If you are a high profile target, like a rich person or a witness against the Mafia it makes sense. As a sporting weapon it is fine to have as well. For self-defense it seems a little unnecessary. First off, though, I don't understand guns enough to have an opinion that should be legislated. I don't think, however, what is unnecessary should be illegal. I think it is silly to own a Mac but I will not make it illegal. Silliness isn't a crime. Again, since I am illiterate in the matter I cannot be a complete judge of gun silliness anyway.



A rich person who doesn't play golf??!!!?!11?!! :shock:

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I gave you a Likes because you have enough sense to know what you don't know and enough integrity to admit the lack. This is apparently a character trait that is rather rare.

Goshin said:

I gave you a Likes because you have enough sense to know what you don't know and enough integrity to admit the lack. This is apparently a character trait that is rather rare.

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as Clint would say

Ah Man's got to know his limitations!

MadLib said:

TBH, I do think it is a little unnecessary to own an assault rifle. If you are a high profile target, like a rich person or a witness against the Mafia it makes sense. As a sporting weapon it is fine to have as well. For self-defense it seems a little unnecessary. First off, though, I don't understand guns enough to have an opinion that should be legislated. I don't think, however, what is unnecessary should be illegal. I think it is silly to own a Mac but I will not make it illegal. Silliness isn't a crime. Again, since I am illiterate in the matter I cannot be a complete judge of gun silliness anyway.



A rich person who doesn't play golf??!!!?!11?!! :shock:

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I like your attitude, being completely honest here. A quick tactical perspective, let's say you are in a house with lots of walls or a decent amount of room but not much open ground. A bolt action rifle is the most accurate but it will be long barreled, there are many minuses in a situation where seconds matter whether that be a charging animal or an assailant in proximity. It takes longer to draw and anticipate with the typical hunting rifle and it's easier for someone to grab it while you try to get around a corner, the shorter variants allow for a quicker target aquisition and faster cornering.

That said a shotgun is the best CQ weapon due to the spread pattern of the typical shell(slugs excluded) and only a fool would try to get in closer, they don't need to be "on point" as readily but more "in the general area of the target. Handguns are for situations where the SHTF within 20yds or less, maybe 50 if it's all you've got, they're meant for quick draws in very close proximity. As well if an assailant is gaining ground you want a decent rate of fire, semi-automatics do just fine in most situations.

LaMidRighter said:

I like your attitude, being completely honest here. A quick tactical perspective, let's say you are in a house with lots of walls or a decent amount of room but not much open ground. A bolt action rifle is the most accurate but it will be long barreled, there are many minuses in a situation where seconds matter whether that be a charging animal or an assailant in proximity. It takes longer to draw and anticipate with the typical hunting rifle and it's easier for someone to grab it while you try to get around a corner, the shorter variants allow for a quicker target aquisition and faster cornering.

That said a shotgun is the best CQ weapon due to the spread pattern of the typical shell(slugs excluded) and only a fool would try to get in closer, they don't need to be "on point" as readily but more "in the general area of the target. Handguns are for situations where the SHTF within 20yds or less, maybe 50 if it's all you've got, they're meant for quick draws in very close proximity. As well if an assailant is gaining ground you want a decent rate of fire, semi-automatics do just fine in most situations.

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I could do well enough with a tactical shotgun (8 round tube or more) for home defense, I suppose. One thing I like about my "assault rifle" though is it is MUCH easier to make a hostage-rescue shot, than with a shotgun or a pistol.

(Hostage-rescue shot = a head shot where the scumbag is partially hiding behind a hostage.)

Goshin said:

I could do well enough with a tactical shotgun (8 round tube or more) for home defense, I suppose. One thing I like about my "assault rifle" though is it is MUCH easier to make a hostage-rescue shot, than with a shotgun or a pistol.

(Hostage-rescue shot = a head shot where the scumbag is partially hiding behind a hostage.)

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Yep, the drawback to the shotgun. You don't have to be accurate, but sometimes accuracy is preferable. I was thinking of a situation where you can intercept the intruder before he can find human shields, such as hustling the loved ones to a bedroom and getting them locked in. The situation changes drastically if the family is involved.

LaMidRighter said:

Yep, the drawback to the shotgun. You don't have to be accurate, but sometimes accuracy is preferable. I was thinking of a situation where you can intercept the intruder before he can find human shields, such as hustling the loved ones to a bedroom and getting them locked in. The situation changes drastically if the family is involved.

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Yup, it was one of my criteria in choosing an AR as my go-to home-defense gun. Of course, I have shotguns too.


Actually I have one less shotgun now... the boy has claimed my old pump-action as his go-to home defense gun.

He wants a Old West-style revolver or lever-rifle for his birthday though... the older they get, the more their "toys" cost.

If you'd own an assault rifle, why not a grenade launcher? I'd wager a grenade launcher is less deadly. Sure, you'd kill anyone in the blast radius, but with an assault rifle you can mow down packs of victims.

Wake said:

If you'd own an assault rifle, why not a grenade launcher? I'd wager a grenade launcher is less deadly. Sure, you'd kill anyone in the blast radius, but with an assault rifle you can mow down packs of victims.

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Stop dude, just stop. A grenade has an effective kill radius of 15 feet, and a secondary radius of about 25. Unless someone jumps on said grenade to absorb the blast everyone within 15 feet is dead, within 25 feet it's going to be around a 55% casualty rate, and there are going to be wounded past that due to shrapnel. A grenade requires even less accuracy than a shotgun, which is why they were invented. They were made to clear or kill in bunkers or thin numbers and slow enemy advances.

With an assault rifle you first have to get the rideup under control and THEN hit your target, even then you have to hit a vital organ or artery. With a grenade you simply have to get it into the general area of the person you want to go bye-bye.

Edit - Bunkers should have been dugouts or trenches. There were techniques for dropping live grendades into bunker openings such as gun ports and viewing slots, but that was a suicide mission much of the time.

A lot of what ifing in this.

I don't know too many folks can make an offhand T-Box shot with only partial exposure on moving heads, the hostage taker and the hostage. Your asking a lot for some badguy to not shoot you, or cut the kid while your steady up and squeeze. You must have ice water for blood.

Most of the time you will be clearing your house, working toward the children's bedrooms, don't know about you but I like my kid's room a bit away from the parental bedroom due to my wife not being much of a pillow biter... :shock:

The problem with a shotgun is the same as bolt gun or carbine in house clearing. The barrel leads. The badguy doesn't need to grab it, simply be aware you are exactly right there. Pistols work well in room to room movement where you don't want to wave a barrel in the room before entering. (tactical movement goes MUCH farther than what weapon you use, though a shotgun when your children are in the house does seem like a poor selection.) Pieing the room before entering goes along way toward success in clearing a room.

For home defense nothing more than a revolver is needed, that some of we like high cap semi-autos, 8 round shotguns, or ARs to do the job has little to do with the job, a lot more to do with the lose nut on the trigger...

But hey 99.99999% of the home defenders will never actually have to clear rooms, T-Box a bad guy holding their daughter at knife point, or expend more than 3 rounds defending the home. Most likely some drunken, drugged up guy thinking you are easy pickings so your have to wait until you are over 70 or a single mom even then at best one round expended or just seeing the pistol will have the turd roller fleeing in terror.... eace

LaMidRighter said:

Stop dude, just stop. A grenade has an effective kill radius of 15 feet, and a secondary radius of about 25. Unless someone jumps on said grenade to absorb the blast everyone within 15 feet is dead, within 25 feet it's going to be around a 55% casualty rate, and there are going to be wounded past that due to shrapnel. A grenade requires even less accuracy than a shotgun, which is why they were invented. They were made to clear or kill in bunkers or thin numbers and slow enemy advances.

With an assault rifle you first have to get the rideup under control and THEN hit your target, even then you have to hit a vital organ or artery. With a grenade you simply have to get it into the general area of the person you want to go bye-bye.

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How much ammo do assault rifles typically contain? I'm also going to count a 2nd ammo cartridge. Each slug from an assault rifle is another chance to kill.

I think a gym full of kids/adults could be mowed down with a powerful assault rifle, as lethal if not moreso than a grenade launcher. Also, with the grenade launcher there's more of a risk of possibly being caught in the blast radius. With an assault rifle you cannot get caught in a blast radius. If an assault rifle can carry over 100 bullets, it's more lethal than an RPG, imo.

Wake said:

How much ammo do assault rifles typically contain? I'm also going to count a 2nd ammo cartridge. Each slug from an assault rifle is another chance to kill.

I think a gym full of kids/adults could be mowed down with a powerful assault rifle, as lethal if not moreso than a grenade launcher. Also, with the grenade launcher there's more of a risk of possibly being caught in the blast radius. With an assault rifle you cannot get caught in a blast radius. If an assault rifle can carry over 100 bullets, it's more lethal than an RPG, imo.

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You aren't getting the point. If you have 200 rounds and don't hit anything, or hit at a 1:40 ratio your odds of causing death and destruction are not good, that is a major drawback of assault rifles, their rate of fire makes them inaccurate. If you have ONE grendade and throw it into a crowd of twenty you'll probably kill 18 to 20. You may not kill anyone with an assault rifle, though you may wound a couple.

Wake said:

If you'd own an assault rifle, why not a grenade launcher? I'd wager a grenade launcher is less deadly. Sure, you'd kill anyone in the blast radius, but with an assault rifle you can mow down packs of victims.

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Wake, get real. Honest to gosh I think you say things sometimes just for the shock value in hopes of torquing someone off.

I don't own an assault rifle in order to mow down packs of victims. I own one for defending my home and property and self and family, and for target shooting... and as a way-way-way-far-back-improbability, as a hedge against civil-disorder-disater situations.

I don't own a grenade launcher and don't want one. For one thing it is fairly useless in self-defense as it is an AREA EFFECT WEAPON.... it lacks precision targeting ability. Furthermore I don't much like explosives, they're as dangerous to the possessor as to anyone else if not carefully handled.

It is a ludicrous comparison.