America's greatest sin [W:264]

RGacky3 · Jul 31, 2012

he Indians sealed their fate when they sided with the British during the War of 1812. What did they think was going to happen? And dropping the bomb on Japan was a "terrorist" attack? Get real.

Oh, so siding with someone that promises you some sort of autonomy when your facing genocide makes you deserving of .... Genocide????

And yeah, dropping of the A Bomb was a terrorist attack, it was the mass murder of civilians to make a political point and to terrorize both Japan (but mostly the Soviet Union) into submission.

lpast · Jul 31, 2012

The United States has made many mistakes...we have collectively committed many sins...but in my uneducated opinion...we still did it better than the rest of them did...and we committed far less sins and made far less mistakes and did far more good that we ever got credit for.

lpast · Jul 31, 2012

RGacky3 said:
Oh, so siding with someone that promises you some sort of autonomy when your facing genocide makes you deserving of .... Genocide????

And yeah, dropping of the A Bomb was a terrorist attack, it was the mass murder of civilians to make a political point and to terrorize both Japan (but mostly the Soviet Union) into submission.

sigh...it was to save american lives and it did...we were fighting two wars on two different fronts...and it was a different time with far less military capabilities...and I dont believe they knew what the extent of the devastation would be...

German guy · Jul 31, 2012

My two cents as a European:

Americans have certainly never been saints. But I admire America's capacity to overcome and correct its mistakes eventually. America has made many mistakes, but has always learnt from them so far. And I am confident that Americans will continue to improve.

Some Americans and their opinions may be really annoying, but they never miss a great spirit. Americans have their hearts in the right place.

IMO.

Andalublue · Jul 31, 2012

lpast said:
sigh...it was to save american lives and it did...we were fighting two wars on two different fronts...and it was a different time with far less military capabilities...and I dont believe they knew what the extent of the devastation would be...

No, the A-bombs were dropped 3 months after the end of the war in Europe. It was certainly one of the worst war crimes committed during WWII in scale considerably worse than the Allied bombing of Dresden, and German carpet-bombing of British cities. It's on a similar scale as the Rape of Nanking, but it's not up there with the Holocaust , however.

On the general point of the thread I'd say that the greatest sin the US has committed is in the creation of the current corporatist, military-industrial hegemony based and predicated on the need for a continuous state of global conflict and ever-widening levels of social and economic inequality.

RGacky3 · Jul 31, 2012

lpast said:
sigh...it was to save american lives and it did...we were fighting two wars on two different fronts...and it was a different time with far less military capabilities...and I dont believe they knew what the extent of the devastation would be...

A: Japan was allready looking for peace and that was known at the time.
B: Most terrorists attacts are supposedly justified by trying to save lives, even 911 was.
C: Its still terrorism.
D: THey knew the extent, they were warned by many people, and they did it twice.

lpast said:
we still did it better than the rest of them did...and we committed far less sins and made far less mistakes and did far more good that we ever got credit for.

Not really, the US does nothing but self congradulate itself over really nothing and totally ignore all the terrible atrocities it was apart of, but every empire in the past did the same, so what do you expect?

Andalublue · Jul 31, 2012

RGacky3 said:
Not really, the US does nothing but self congradulate itself over really nothing and totally ignore all the terrible atrocities it was apart of,

This x2.

but every empire in the past did the same, so what do you expect?

This x10!

Tigger · Jul 31, 2012

OTHER: The Feminist Movement.

RGacky3 · Jul 31, 2012

Really why? YOu don't think women should vote? have some sort of autonomy? have equal rights? Or are you just having problems getting laid?

Tigger · Jul 31, 2012

RGacky3 said:
Really why? YOu don't think women should vote? have some sort of autonomy? have equal rights? Or are you just having problems getting laid?

It was the beginning of the end for pretty much all morality and social values in this country. I do not believe that women should be involved in the political process at all. Some autonomy, yes. Total autonomy, NO. Equal, sure; the same, NO.

I'm not going to get into the details of my personal sex life with you; but it's just fine thank you very much.

RDS · Jul 31, 2012

lpast said:
The United States has made many mistakes...we have collectively committed many sins...but in my uneducated opinion...we still did it better than the rest of them did...and we committed far less sins and made far less mistakes and did far more good that we ever got credit for.

Just one sin negates all the good work.

MoSurveyor · Jul 31, 2012

I voted slavery because it had the biggest impact. Our treatment of native Americans was just as bad and came from the same mindset - no respect for people or their culture that aren't just like US. We still live under this same twisted mindset today. One has to look no farther for evidence than how we treat American Muslims right now.

RGacky3 · Jul 31, 2012

It was the beginning of the end for pretty much all morality and social values in this country. I do not believe that women should be involved in the political process at all. Some autonomy, yes. Total autonomy, NO. Equal, sure; the same, NO.

Really? Like was wife abuse with no reprocussions "morality?" Dude people were just as immoral then as they are now ... And morality doesn't come from the political process.

Your Star · Jul 31, 2012

The genocide of the Native Americans, just oh so disgusting.

Tigger · Jul 31, 2012

RGacky3 said:
Really? Like was wife abuse with no reprocussions "morality?" Dude people were just as immoral then as they are now ... And morality doesn't come from the political process.

It depends on what she did to deserve the "abuse". You're right morality doesn't come from the political process. The political process should be an extension of morality.

Your Star said:
The genocide of the Native Americans, just oh so disgusting.

Sorry, but only in this nation would a conquered people expect to be allowed to keep their land, their way or life, and their culture. They tried to fight back. They did it very poorly. They LOST. It's time for them to get with the program.

RGacky3 · Jul 31, 2012

It depends on what she did to deserve the "abuse".

Well you certainly have a very strange idea of what is "moral" ...

Sorry, but only in this nation would a conquered people expect to be allowed to keep their land, their way or life, and their culture. They tried to fight back. They did it very poorly. They LOST. It's time for them to get with the program.

So Genocide is great, as long as you push the survivors in a tiny area of land that is useless.

Tigger · Jul 31, 2012

RGacky3 said:
Well you certainly have a very strange idea of what is "moral" ...

Yeah. I actually respect Tradition, and the Olde Ways. You know, the way things were for several thousand years; back when society had some value.

RGacky3 said:
So Genocide is great, as long as you push the survivors in a tiny area of land that is useless.

I'm from the Ghenghis Khan School of Diplomacy..... You give the enemy one chance to surrender. If they do, they immediately assimilate to your culture. If they refuse, you wipe them out. Any who do survive are expected to assimilate immediately.

cpwill · Jul 31, 2012

GhostlyJoe said:
Picked Indians because, while slavery is loathsome, it was not a uniquely American enterprise.

whereas conquering territory is a unique experience of the north american continent?

the aborigines of australia might be surprised at this.

cpwill · Jul 31, 2012

Your Star said:
The genocide of the Native Americans, just oh so disgusting.

the deaths in the native American communities were largely the result of disease, not genocide on the part of the Americans.

while our treatment of them was generally abusive and in many instances horrific, it does not come close to the stain of slavery.

cpwill · Jul 31, 2012

MoSurveyor said:
I voted slavery because it had the biggest impact. Our treatment of native Americans was just as bad and came from the same mindset - no respect for people or their culture that aren't just like US. We still live under this same twisted mindset today. One has to look no farther for evidence than how we treat American Muslims right now.

RGacky3 · Jul 31, 2012

Yeah. I actually respect Tradition, and the Olde Ways. You know, the way things were for several thousand years; back when society had some value.

Ok so your pro-slavery, pro monarchy, pro feudalism, or whatever, human rights don't exist in your eyes, women are or can be property, rights are not inherent but instead dependant on your place in society, and I guess blacks are inferior.

BTW, several thousand years back there were tons and tons of different values that chagned and shifted, so exactly which one do you think is right???

I'm from the Ghenghis Khan School of Diplomacy..... You give the enemy one chance to surrender. If they do, they immediately assimilate to your culture. If they refuse, you wipe them out. Any who do survive are expected to assimilate immediately.

And what gives you that right? And what makes them your enemy???

Honestly what values are you picking and choosing .... You have no values ...

kmiller1610 · Jul 31, 2012

Allowing Secular Humanism to be established as the national religion, which explains most of the poll options, has devalued private property, multiplied our deficit and eroded the national character.

MoSurveyor · Jul 31, 2012

cpwill said:
*facepalm*

So you think American Muslims are treated the same as American Christians? :lol:

Or are you saying you truly believe we're NOT arrogant and/or think our way of life is the best? :lol:

Tigger · Jul 31, 2012

RGacky3 said:
Ok so your pro-slavery, pro monarchy, pro feudalism, or whatever, human rights don't exist in your eyes, women are or can be property, rights are not inherent but instead dependant on your place in society, and I guess blacks are inferior.

Pro-Feudalism more than monarchy. I have no issue with slavery in general, just slavery based on race alone. I am a much larger believer in PRIVILEGES than Rights which are dependent both on your place in society and your thoughts, words, and deeds. No race is any more or less than any other. It's individuals who are better or worse depending on who they are.

RGacky3 said:
BTW, several thousand years back there were tons and tons of different values that chagned and shifted, so exactly which one do you think is right???

Personally, I think the ideal society would be loosely based on the Norman kingdoms of the 12th and 13th centuries.

RGacky3 said:
And what gives you that right? And what makes them your enemy???

"Cannons are the Ultimate Arguement of Kings" - Napoleon. Might makes right. Always has and always will, RGacky.

RGacky3 said:
Honestly what values are you picking and choosing .... You have no values ...

I have plenty of values. They're just not the ones that most people embrace these days.

RGacky3 · Jul 31, 2012

Allowing Secular Humanism to be established as the national religion, which explains most of the poll options, has devalued private property, multiplied our deficit and eroded the national character.

What are you talking about ???? Religion devalued private property .... from the begining .... Secular Humanism is not at all the national religion, there IS NONE; nor does it have anything to do with private property or the deficit ...

America's greatest sin [W:264]

What is America's greatest sin?

The war for independence

Slavery

Indians / native Americans

Hiroshima, Nagasaki bombing

The war in Vietnam

The FED

The Cold war

The Civil war

Other

I can't tell

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