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Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

Is Venezuela's Chavez a threat to American National Security?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • No

    Votes: 38 86.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Total voters
    44
The only thugs around here are the propaganda-driven people without a clue who want to bash away at the people of Venezuela for having at long last thrown off a regime of brutal impoverishers and oppressors. I meanwhile haven't supported a single Chavez policy. The only one I've so much as mentioned was the free home heating oil provided to hundreds of thousands of freezing Ameican families. All I've done otherwise is point out the feeble and hollow nature of complaints lodged against Chavez. These phony critics need to come up with some better material.

No people recognize that Chavez is no better than the previous regimes. Just because we recognize that Chavez is bad for the Venezuelan people does not automatically mean that we support the previous assholes. Venezuela can do much better than Hugo Chavez and his revolution.
 
The only thugs around here are the propaganda-driven people without a clue who want to bash away at the people of Venezuela for having at long last thrown off a regime of brutal impoverishers and oppressors. I meanwhile haven't supported a single Chavez policy. The only one I've so much as mentioned was the free home heating oil provided to hundreds of thousands of freezing Ameican families. All I've done otherwise is point out the feeble and hollow nature of complaints lodged against Chavez. These phony critics need to come up with some better material.

Chavez' thuggery and his support of other thugs is good reason enough to oppose him and recognize him for what he is. Hooray, he tried to embarrass the US by sending people heating oil while his own people suffered from food and energy shortages. woop-de-do.
 
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Chavez' thuggery and his support of other thugs is good reason enough to oppose him and recognize him for what he is.
Is this another laughable reference to Chavez's attempts to kill off the Syrian people by sending them diesel for their trucks and farm equipment? Government tanks will have all the fuel they need in any case, or are you still too naive to have recognized that fact.

Hooray, he tried to embarrass the US by sending people heating oil while his own people suffered from food and energy shortages. woop-de-do.
You would rather see hundreds of thousands of low-income American families freeze in the winter than to have to sacrifice your crude poltical biases to the point of offering a single word of thanks to Hugo Chavez. What a fine, upstanding, and admirable sort you seem to be.
 
Is this another laughable reference to Chavez's attempts to kill off the Syrian people by sending them diesel for their trucks and farm equipment? Government tanks will have all the fuel they need in any case, or are you still too naive to have recognized that fact.


You would rather see hundreds of thousands of low-income American families freeze in the winter than to have to sacrifice your crude poltical biases to the point of offering a single word of thanks to Hugo Chavez. What a fine, upstanding, and admirable sort you seem to be.

No politician does anything out of kindness of the heart. There are always motives that drive politicians that will in their estimation benefit them individually in some manner. In Chavez's case it is propagandist. Only about 7% of U.S. homes use oil heat today and out of that the actual people being helped is very small. What would actually help the poor is for Chavez to foot the bill for converting to natural gas which is more efficient, cheaper and cleaner. But then what he do with all that oil?
 
Only about 7% of U.S. homes use oil heat today and out of that the actual people being helped is very small.
Repeat after me...
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
 
Repeat after me...
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.
It was hundreds of thousands of low-income households.

Which is still not a significate number no matter how many times that you repeat it. And as I said does not really help any or those poor people once their once in a lifetime 100 Gallons of fuel oil is used up. the typical oil tank holds somewhere near 600 gallons. The average house hold uses 100 gallons a month. So the so called help didnt even get the families in need through the entire winter months. If the idea was to actually help people than it would be more logical to spend the money on converting homes to natural gas instead. But Hugo and his fans get to run around and preach how great the dictator is being. meanwhile the citizens of Venezuela are having their own needs not being fulfilled by Chavez. Latin American Herald Tribune - Venezuela Oil Wealth Doesn't Stop Gasoline Shortages


As it turned out, the distributors in question in Caracas turned out to be "collectives" -- the sort of small "socialistic" business that once found such favor with the president that he saw them as future models for the country as a whole. Chávez is said since to have grown disillusioned with collectives, not least because few of them are well run, and a quite a lot go to the wall after or despite generous state financing.
 
Is this another laughable reference to Chavez's attempts to kill off the Syrian people by sending them diesel for their trucks and farm equipment?

:lol: what is laughable about that is that there are people who honestly are willing to buy that it's for poor innocent farmers.

And even willing to contradict their own claims in order to argue so.

Government tanks will have all the fuel they need in any case, or are you still too naive to have recognized that fact.

That is incorrect. The Syrian military has been in the field for 16 months now. They didn't go into this conflict with the greatest logistical support, they've lost control alot of their support infrastructure, and their ability to resupply has been severely degraded. That is one of the reasons why you see them consolidating their position, withdrawing from outlying areas into ones in which their internal MSR's are shorter. It is exceedingly likely that fuel is currently a critical vulnerability for the Syrian maneuver forces.


However, Assad is hardly the only fellow thug that Chavez stands with and supports. He's been propping up the Castro regime for years, and aside from direct support to terror networks like the FARC himself, he's a big fan and ally of the worlds foremost terror-sponsoring regime, Iran. He's a client of the PRC. He's what you call "a bad guy".

You would rather see hundreds of thousands of low-income American families freeze in the winter than to have to sacrifice your crude poltical biases to the point of offering a single word of thanks to Hugo Chavez. What a fine, upstanding, and admirable sort you seem to be.

hey look!


strawman.jpg



a Strawman! :D
 
The USA is the greatest supporter of terror networks. Our work in Iraq is terrorism. Terrorism in Latin America, South America, Iran, Syria, Libya,Venezuela, etc. Sometimes when one's head is stuck in the sand, it is hard to find reality, easy to find sand, I guess. Or not, eh?
 
Which is still not a significate number no matter how many times that you repeat it.
Then the number of Americans killed in World War II was not significant either.

And as I said does not really help any or those poor people once their once in a lifetime 100 Gallons of fuel oil is used up.
Fail. The program has been in existence for seven years. Your link is to ONE of many local distributors having participated in the program over the years. Didn't know? Didn't care? Doesn't matter. You're pushing a fraud.
 
:lol: what is laughable about that is that there are people who honestly are willing to buy that it's for poor innocent farmers.
That might be because only the rantings of deranged sociophobes stand to the contrary.

And even willing to contradict their own claims in order to argue so.
LOL!

That is incorrect. The Syrian military has been in the field for 16 months now. They didn't go into this conflict with the greatest logistical support, they've lost control alot of their support infrastructure, and their ability to resupply has been severely degraded.
You are on the ground in Syria then, I take it, and not at all just making this stuff up in your living room?

That is one of the reasons why you see them consolidating their position, withdrawing from outlying areas into ones in which their internal MSR's are shorter. It is exceedingly likely that fuel is currently a critical vulnerability for the Syrian maneuver forces.
WARNING: No facts were used in the manufacture of this post. It contains 100% pure, unrefined bias fortified with such essential nutrients as personal assumptions and suppositions having no actual or direct relation to reality at all.

However, Assad is hardly the only fellow thug that Chavez stands with and supports. He's been propping up the Castro regime for years, and aside from direct support to terror networks like the FARC himself, he's a big fan and ally of the worlds foremost terror-sponsoring regime, Iran. He's a client of the PRC. He's what you call "a bad guy".
The "Castro regime" has run Cuba for fifty years. Canada has done more to prop it up than Chavez. FARC is a group of dedicated Colombian Marxists that's been around for decades. They use bases in Ecuador and Venezuela for training and as hiding places. They are not actually the friends of anyone. Chavez has been a leading voice espousing the causes of the Non-Aligned Movement. Iran is also a member and has rights that even American bloviators need to respect. Nobody is a bigger client of the PRC than the United States.

hey look! a Strawman!
That's not a strawman at all. You have made it quite a bit more than crystal clear that you would willingly trade the health and well-being of hundreds of thousands of low-income Americans in order to preserve against continuing onslaughts of fact your own disinformed personal political biases and hatreds. Shame on you.
 
The USA is the greatest supporter of terror networks. Our work in Iraq is terrorism. Terrorism in Latin America, South America, Iran, Syria, Libya,Venezuela, etc. Sometimes when one's head is stuck in the sand, it is hard to find reality, easy to find sand, I guess. Or not, eh?
Indeed. FARC in fact arose in opposition to US-backed and US-funded military attacks against suspected leftist peasants in Colombia. And people wonder why we are so hated in so many places.
 
Then the number of Americans killed in World War II was not significant either.
The significance of people dying compared to people getting foreign money to pay for heating fuel is no where near related.


Fail. The program has been in existence for seven years. Your link is to ONE of many local distributors having participated in the program over the years. Didn't know? Didn't care? Doesn't matter. You're pushing a fraud.
It doesnt matter how long that foreign money has been influencing Americans. What matters is that the Hugo Chavez is not giving fuel oil out of the kindness of his heart, it is a political tool and the form of bribes to try to fix his bad image and to be able to use it as propaganda against the US.
 
The significance of people dying compared to people getting foreign money to pay for heating fuel is no where near related.
The question is over how big a group of people has to be before it becomes significant You've opined that 400,000 low-income American households isn't nearly enough. Now it seems you want to eat those words.

It doesnt matter how long that foreign money has been influencing Americans. What matters is that the Hugo Chavez is not giving fuel oil out of the kindness of his heart, it is a political tool and the form of bribes to try to fix his bad image and to be able to use it as propaganda against the US.
It matters because you claimed that these were once-in-a-lifetime deliveries of just 100 gallons. You unfortunately based those claims on information for one year from a single participating local distributor. You stand corrected yet again.
 
The question is over how big a group of people has to be before it becomes significant You've opined that 400,000 low-income American households isn't nearly enough. Now it seems you want to eat those words.
Ok the nationally owned oil company has been using their wealth to influence Americans and a lot of them at that. Meanwhile Venezuelan citizens are not being helped because Venezuela is not really so rich that they can pay for both.


It matters because you claimed that these were once-in-a-lifetime deliveries of just 100 gallons. You unfortunately based those claims on information for one year from a single participating local distributor. You stand corrected yet again.
In its Seventh Year, CITGO-Venezuela Heating Oil Program Helps 400,000 Needy Americans « Embassy of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela in the U.S. CITGO, based in Houston, is a refiner, transporter and marketer of transportation fuels, lubricants, petrochemicals and other industrial products. The company is owned by PDV America, Inc., an indirect wholly owned subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A., the national oil company of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. For more information visit Home page

Beginning in 1979 with oil-trading ventures in Latin America and Africa, Citizens Energy has used revenues from commercial enterprises to channel millions of dollars into charitable programs in the U.S. and abroad. Whether heating the homes of the elderly and the poor, lowering the cost of prescription drugs for millions of Americans, or starting solar heating projects in Jamaica and Venezuela, Citizens creates social ventures as innovative as the businesses that finance them. For more information, visit CITIZENS ENERGY | HOME.


It should be noted that Hugo Chavez is working through Corporations to deliver his help to low income families. Am I the only one that finds that to be a tad bit hypocritical?
 
Ok the nationally owned oil company has been using their wealth to influence Americans and a lot of them at that.
Actually, such wealth has been used to provide free home heating oil to hundreds of thousands of low-income American households, as was originally claimed. CITGO is also the largest single contributor to the Muscular Dystrophy Association. How do you explain that?

Meanwhile Venezuelan citizens are not being helped because Venezuela is not really so rich that they can pay for both.
Election returns over the years would suggest that clear majorities of the Venezuelan people hold an opinion quite different from yours. Then again, they live there, and you just read stupid right-wing corporate propaganda, so that might account for much of the difference.

It should be noted that Hugo Chavez is working through Corporations to deliver his help to low income families. Am I the only one that finds that to be a tad bit hypocritical?
LOL! Why would that be hypocritical? Do you seriously see Venezuela as some sort of hard-left bulwark of communism or something? Perhaps you should recognize that there are thousands of corporations in Venezuela, ranging from privately-owned to government-owned and including many co-ops in between. What does the US picture look like?
 
Actually, such wealth has been used to provide free home heating oil to hundreds of thousands of low-income American households, as was originally claimed. CITGO is also the largest single contributor to the Muscular Dystrophy Association. How do you explain that?
BTW it is called actually Citgo Petroleum Corporation. And most Corporation's have charities. Its called Corporate social responsibility.


Election returns over the years would suggest that clear majorities of the Venezuelan people hold an opinion quite different from yours. Then again, they live there, and you just read stupid right-wing corporate propaganda, so that might account for much of the difference.
LMAO I do not buy into Right wing propaganda haha. Nice try but good luck proving your claim here.


LOL! Why would that be hypocritical? Do you seriously see Venezuela as some sort of hard-left bulwark of communism or something? Perhaps you should recognize that there are thousands of corporations in Venezuela, ranging from privately-owned to government-owned and including many co-ops in between. What does the US picture look like?
Well yes I know that and that was my point. But no I never have thought that Venezuela is a Communist nation, in fact that strawman is ridiculous. Do I think that Chavez wants to turn Venezuela into a Cuba like nation? Yes. Of course that wont happen though since Chavez has his own flavor that differs from his hero Castro. But the deciding factor is that the people do not want to join in on the Cuban insanity. How do I know? Well the internet is awesome! I actually talk to people in Venezuela. And I am not comparing the US with Venezuela that would be another ridiculous strawman argument.

But one has to wonder how come Hugo Chavez is worth 1 billion? Did the military pay him millions? Hugo Chavez Net Worth 2012 | Get Net Worth

Hugo Chavez's Net Worth | RichButBroke

Wouldnt that make Chavez a villain stealing his wealth from his people? I mean how does one spend 17 years in the military then go into politics and end up a billionaire? Wouldnt that also make Hugo Chavez a top percent'er?
 
LMAO I do not buy into Right wing propaganda haha. Nice try but good luck proving your claim here.
QUOTE]

I certainly disagree. You are a veritable fountain of right wing disinformation. That belief stuff is a wonderful thing, don't you think?
 
BTW it is called actually Citgo Petroleum Corporation. And most Corporation's have charities. Its called Corporate social responsibility.
Ah, so the home heating oil program has actually been an example of social repsonsibility. See, I understood you to be saying that it was all just some sort of self-serving trick by Chavez to fool people into thinking he was a man of the people or some such.

LMAO I do not buy into Right wing propaganda haha. Nice try but good luck proving your claim here.
I defer to you in the provision of such proof. You've been doing just fine at it on your own.

Well yes I know that and that was my point.
Actually, your point was that it was somehow "hypocritical" for Chavez to work through corporations. You even capitalized it. What was the basis for that?

But the deciding factor is that the people do not want to join in on the Cuban insanity. How do I know? Well the internet is awesome! I actually talk to people in Venezuela.
No, you don't.

But one has to wonder how come Hugo Chavez is worth 1 billion?
LOL! One has to wonder how entertainment sites would suddenly become legitimate sources. Do you realize that your site pegs the net worth of Saddam Hussein at $2 billion???
 
Ah, so the home heating oil program has actually been an example of social repsonsibility. See, I understood you to be saying that it was all just some sort of self-serving trick by Chavez to fool people into thinking he was a man of the people or some such.
Corporate social responsibility = Propaganda to hide the fact that you are doing something bad.


I defer to you in the provision of such proof. You've been doing just fine at it on your own.
Just because I am against a Leftist I must be a Right winger? I am also anti-Christian Right does that make me a Left winger too?


Actually, your point was that it was somehow "hypocritical" for Chavez to work through corporations. You even capitalized it. What was the basis for that?
My basis is the ten hour long speeches that Hugo Chavez has made describing Corporations as the most vile things on Earth.

No, you don't.
What do you have surveillance equipment on my PC? Or do you believe that only Venezuelan state media are the only ones telling the truth? Think about that the media is either controlled by CHavista's or the opposition? If you believe either group you are buying into their propaganda. Social media and blogs though are in this case much more reliable. But go on believe Hugo propaganda machine if you want.

LOL! One has to wonder how entertainment sites would suddenly become legitimate sources. Do you realize that your site pegs the net worth of Saddam Hussein at $2 billion???
Ok then prove me wrong show me what Hugo Chavez is worth?

Accusations of corruption hit Chavez clan - Houston Chronicle
 
Corporate social responsibility = Propaganda to hide the fact that you are doing something bad.
So unlike Chavez, you believe that "Corporations" are the most vile thing on earth?

Just because I am against a Leftist I must be a Right winger?
No, the pedigree of the idiot arguments you have trotted out here suggests it. I thought I had made that point clear already.

I am also anti-Christian Right does that make me a Left winger too?
What sort of misguided question is that? Are you suggesting some notion that only left-wingers oppose the Christian right?

My basis is the ten hour long speeches that Hugo Chavez has made describing Corporations as the most vile things on Earth.
LOL! Yeah, you two are peas in a pod when it comes to "Corporations". Meanwhile, Chave spoke at great length only to demonstrate that he is recovered from cancer and has the vigor and determination needed both to campaign and to govern for another term.

What do you have surveillance equipment on my PC?
No, I'm just not nearly so naively gullible as you may have hoped.

Social media and blogs though are in this case much more reliable.
Why don't you get down to brass tacks and provide some names and links. I won't wait up though.

Ok then prove me wrong show me what Hugo Chavez is worth?
It's your Bozo the Clown claim. You made it based on the reporting of an entirely phony website. And you STILL want people to take you seriously? I don't think that's happening.
 
So unlike Chavez, you believe that "Corporations" are the most vile thing on earth?
Lol why dos my opinion matter when I was talking about Chavez's opinion on corporations?

No, the pedigree of the idiot arguments you have trotted out here suggests it. I thought I had made that point clear already.
Well that would be your opinion.


What sort of misguided question is that? Are you suggesting some notion that only left-wingers oppose the Christian right?
Yea well the Religious Right took over the Repbulican party so I am sure some Republicans should be pissed. Not that you hear from them much.


LOL! Yeah, you two are peas in a pod when it comes to "Corporations". Meanwhile, Chave spoke at great length only to demonstrate that he is recovered from cancer and has the vigor and determination needed both to campaign and to govern for another term.
Well Im not hypocritical about corporations so I do not know what you are going on about. And isnt it amazing that Chavez somehow recovered from cancer at just the right time? But I guess you will believe anything that the Chavista's tell you?


No, I'm just not nearly so naively gullible as you may have hoped.
Well if you are going to imply that I lied about having friends in Venezuela I would expect you to have more than you just think so.


Why don't you get down to brass tacks and provide some names and links. I won't wait up though.
You do know how to use google right? Or are you going to assert that no Venezuelans have internet?


It's your Bozo the Clown claim. You made it based on the reporting of an entirely phony website. And you STILL want people to take you seriously? I don't think that's happening.
Actually it was two links. Which were sites for entertainment. I found it entertaining did you not? But none the less you ignored this link: Accusations of corruption hit Chavez clan - Houston Chronicle "They are not the same poor family as before," Cartay said. "It's hard to hide wealth in a small state like Barinas."

Policia Impide Caminata De Capriles En La Parroquia La Vega - Nacional Y Politica - El Universal

Police prevents Capriles walk in the parish of La Vega
Police officers prevented the Bolivarian National to undertake the walk opposition candidate in the presidential elections of October 7, Henrique Capriles. The applicant described the measure as a violation of election rules. "These abuses need to be more hope, more strength, more light to beat the Oct. 7" he said.



https://www.whatsnextvenezuela.com/news/venezuelas-free-but-not-fair-elections/

Human Rights Watch report: Venezuela President Hugo Chavez abusing power | GlobalPost

LAS FOTOS QUE CHAVEZ NO QUIERE QUE VEAS

Look you can believe whatever it that you want about Hugo Chavez, Believe that he is a harmless leader of a revolution is you please. Buy into all of that state ran propaganda and wash it down with a big glass of kool-aid. But what Chavez has shown us is that Socialism equals oppression of anyone that does not agree with it.


Tell me why should anyone trust Hugo Chavez?

0528edo.jpg



Here is Your hero Hugo Chavez cruising in his Bentley, one of the most expensive cars in the world. How does a poor slop like Hugo buy a 300k dollar car?
chavezbentley-1024x682.jpg
Hugo Chavez y su Bentley, unico en Vzla, cuesta 500 mil $ - Taringa!

LAS FOTOS QUE CHAVEZ NO QUIERE QUE VEAS: María Corina Machado: Usted se ha dedicado a Expropiar que es Robar

Here is the dictator saying that the victory of the opposition (MORE THAN HALF OF THE VENEZUELAN) was a VICTORY OF ****. That is the garbage we have of President, this, is the crap that governs us until this year, if Venezuela decides to force change. Here chavez curses Israel. But what kind of demon governs us? forum here tells the evangelical Christian who is going to hell because the proposal is "divine" of "Christ the redeemer of the poor." This peazo and crazy it is believed the Messiah??? chavez evidently believes God is a poor madman who rules us. Here Chavez says he DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. So who prays for his fake cancer cure? This is the liar who says he is on a 3rd chemotherapy session and goes jogging. LIAR never had any cancer. It is a mockery to all Venezuelans who have suffered this terrible disease with chemotherapy and know that nobody gets trotted far from it.
 
Mitt Romney: Venezuela

Do you agree with Romney that Chavez poses a direct national security threat to the U.S.A, or do you think this is nothing more than fear mongering against socialism in Latin America that shouldn't be taken so seriously?

This story has been posted elsewhere on this forum but i am seeking to establish consensus amongst American users on DP through the use of a poll, to see if they agree or disagree with Mitt.

It's not very difficult to see that our current government has gone corrupt and are a direct national security threat not only to the U.S.A, but the entire world. God save us if Romney gets into office.
 
That might be because only the rantings of deranged sociophobes stand to the contrary.

nah, there are plenty of good people who simply mistakenly believe that socialism is a desirable form of political organization. Chavez just isn't one of them, any more than Castro (whom he props up) is.


:) first you tell us that the government is sucking up all the diesel in the country, and then you tell us that Chavez' diesel is going to support innocent farmers and the like. It's not my fault you are stuck defending idiotic propaganda.

You are on the ground in Syria then, I take it, and not at all just making this stuff up in your living room?

That is the well-reported reality from the ground. Syria's military has been in the field for 16 months. They didn't have the greatest logistical system to begin with. They have lost territory and had to consolidate lately. That is being driven by, among other things, losses to their ability to maintain maneuver capability. The loss of that territory along with the effects of isolation from all except Iran and Russia have degraded their ability to reinforce and resupply. The importation of diesel is critical to maintaining their maneuver capability. That is why upon receipt Assad was able to launch an offensive, because now he could better support it.

Have you been paying attention to this at all?

WARNING: No facts were used in the manufacture of this post. It contains 100% pure, unrefined bias fortified with such essential nutrients as personal assumptions and suppositions having no actual or direct relation to reality at all.

No, I see you have not.

The "Castro regime" has run Cuba for fifty years.

That is correct, as is the fact that Chavez continues to prop it up.

FARC is a group of dedicated Colombian Marxists that's been around for decades. They use bases in Ecuador and Venezuela for training and as hiding places. They are not actually the friends of anyone.

no but they are and have been allies of Hugo Chavez, who used them as a weapon against the US-backed Colombia.

Chavez has been a leading voice espousing the causes of the Non-Aligned Movement.

which died out with the Cold War. In fact Chavez is a leading voice opposing America's position in the world (read: he intends to be a threat to US interests), and he is allied with Iran, Syria, China, and Russia in this.

Iran is also a member and has rights that even American bloviators need to respect.

Such as the right to be the worlds largest state supporter of terrorism. That does not exactly make them good guys, nor does it mean that Chavez is to be exonerated for his anti-American alliance with them.

Nobody is a bigger client of the PRC than the United States.

that is incorrect and demonstrates an ignorance of what "client state" entails.

That's not a strawman at all

A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

:) good ole wikipedia.
 
As 84% of voters have noted, it's not Chavez's Venezuela that poses a threat to US interests. (I'd be curious to know how the OP defines 'American National Security'. Are we talking merely militarily, or are we looking at self-perceived US military, economic and social interests in general?) As far as the US's long-term overall national interests are concerned, I'd say it has much more to fear from the work currently being undertaken by the BRICS countries to replace the US$ as the standard reserve currency. They simply believe it is too risky to maintain a single global currency, especially one as laden down with debt and deficit as the US$.
 
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