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Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

Is paying your taxes patriotic?

  • Yes, it is our duty as citizens to pay into the system that we have reaped the benefits from.

    Votes: 38 77.6%

  • No, if you can get away with it, why not.

    Votes: 5 10.2%

  • Who cares!

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • Total voters
    49
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

haymarket said:
Yup - jail you. Incarcerate you. Imprison you. Lock you away.

It makes perfect sense. You violate the law - you pay the price. You know this going in and you opt to do it anyways knowing the consequences.

And that too makes perfect sense.
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It makes no sense for a country that respects property rights and you know it.
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
So basically you are saying its perfectly fine if the government jails me because I fail to give them my money. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.
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A government cannot survive on voluntary taxation.
You either accept that you will be taxed or you accept anarchy.

If you accept taxation then you must accept that what you believe is good for the country may not be the same as what your neighbor believes is good for the country. We as a society, not as individuals, move forward using our representative system to resolve these differences of opinion. Congress makes the laws and, if found to be legal by the courts, we have three choices - abide by them but vote/work to change them, risk jail by breaking them, or move to another country.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

DA60 said:
I don't care what the government is 'compelled' to do out side of absolutely essential services.

The post office is totally unnecessary...it can be done by the private sector.

I care about national defense, life or death services, law enforcement, possibly safety guidelines/rules and the funds the government needs to do these things and that is all (I may have left out a few).

And when I say national defense - I mean that. Not some massive military industrial complex that runs around the world telling everyone what to do.
I mean a defense that protects the 50 states of America with NO overseas bases or deployments during peacetime...and that is it.
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It would take a constitutional amendment to privatize the postal service, just saying
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
"I opt to do it anyway." :doh The dumbest argument imaginable and you stand behind it and use it every time you have to defend this. Unbelievable. You are worse than Joe Biden on this.



It makes no sense for a country that respects property rights and you know it.
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You make so sense. If you know you have to pay taxes and you decide not to you break the law. You know the law and you opt to NOT obey it anyway.

Even to a wacko rightie prostrating himself before the altar of mammon that still has to add up.

You wanna be a big bad tax resistor - fine - do it, go to court, use it as a public forum for your beliefs and views, and then go to prison and serve your time like other persons who perform willful acts of civil disobedience.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

haymarket said:
You make so sense. If you know you have to pay taxes and you decide not to you break the law. You know the law and you opt to NOT obey it anyway.

Even to a wacko rightie prostrating himself before the altar of mammon that still has to add up.

You wanna be a big bad tax resistor - fine - do it, go to court, use it as a public forum for your beliefs and views, and then go to prison and serve your time like other persons who perform willful acts of civil disobedience.
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Oh I love the threats for not giving you my money. Makes you feel like a big man, don't it?
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
It makes no sense for a country that respects property rights and you know it.
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Obviously taxation must supersede property or there is no government to recognize property or the rights to it.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
Oh I love the threats for not giving you my money. Makes you feel like a big man, don't it?
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Threats?!?!?!?!??!!? :roll:

Explaining reality to you is a THREAT?!?!?!?!?!? :shock:

Amazing. :roll:
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

LiberalAvenger said:
wanna bet?:)
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Not all powers given need to be enacted. Look it up if you want, but I assure you I'm right on this.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

haymarket said:
Threats?!?!?!?!??!!? :roll:

Explaining reality to you is a THREAT?!?!?!?!?!? :shock:

Amazing. :roll:
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Don't even try to play dumb with me.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

MoSurveyor said:
Obviously taxation must supersede property or there is no government to recognize property or the rights to it.
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Obviously they need to be involved in an exchange that respects property or else they lay claim to all property and we are merely allowed to have what they don't take. In which case, we are nothing but holders of what is their money. That is not protecting property of the people, that is an illusion that people actually own property when they don't.
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
Not all powers given need to be enacted. Look it up if you want, but I assure you I'm right on this.
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"not all powers need to be enacted" explain please.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

haymarket said:
Which is why there is free choice and options you can exercise.
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Yup - and that option is to do everything in my power not to pay more taxes then I feel are fair.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
Obviously they need to be involved in an exchange that respects property or else they lay claim to all property and we are merely allowed to have what they don't take. In which case, we are nothing but holders of what is their money. That is not protecting property of the people, that is an illusion that people actually own property when they don't.
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"They" are, it's called "representation" - maybe you've heard of it?


Tell me, do you even bother to vote?
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

MoSurveyor said:
"They" are, it's called "representation" - maybe you've heard of it?
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Representation has nothing to do with my point that you failed to face.

Do you understand the income tax for example assumes that your income is gifted to you by the government and they may ask for whatever amount they feel like asking and you have no right to say otherwise? Do you understand that property taxes is making you into a renter of your own property where you lay your head at night as is charging you for owning it? Should I continue with other types of taxes or do you get the idea?

Tell me, do you even bother to vote?
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Voting has nothing to do with this.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
Representation has nothing to do with my point that you failed to face.
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Representation has everything to do with government justification. That was your point, wasn't it?

I didn't fail to face anything. You want me to further volunteer that the government can use guns to enforce the law? Who in his right mind does not understand this???

Henrin said:
Do you understand the income tax for example assumes that your income is gifted to you by the government and they may ask for whatever amount they feel like asking and you have no right to say otherwise? Do you understand that property taxes is making you into a renter of your own property where you lay your head at night as is charging you for owning it? Should I continue with other types of taxes or do you get the idea?
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Tax laws are all done at the behest of The People and continue at the behest of The People.

Henrin said:
Voting has nothing to do with this.
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Of course it does. Regardless of some apparent ID laws in some states this is NOT the USSR nor anything even close to it. We have a representative government in this country. If you fail to participate but don't like the results then who's to blame other than yourself?
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
Representation has nothing to do with my point that you failed to face.

Do you understand the income tax for example assumes that your income is gifted to you by the government and they may ask for whatever amount they feel like asking and you have no right to say otherwise? Do you understand that property taxes is making you into a renter of your own property where you lay your head at night as is charging you for owning it? Should I continue with other types of taxes or do you get the idea?



Voting has nothing to do with this.
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People like him (imo) just don't get it.

They - like most Americans - simply cannot seem to think outside the box.

And over the decades, as taxes creep up higher and higher - people get more and more addicted to all these government 'services'...which of course is EXACTLY what the government wants the masses to do.

More government services means more taxes - more taxes means more power to the government.

And as the government takes a higher and higher percentage of your income - they take away more and more of your freedom.

And America in 2012 is not about freedom to the average American as much as it used to be. Today, it's more about protection from all the 'bad' things in the real world.

People want mommy/daddy government to look after them when it's noisy outside instead of taking responsibility for their own actions and mistakes.
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

DA60 said:
[blah, blah, blah-blah, blah, blah]
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It is really pathetic when you take to preaching to the choir! :lamo
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

MoSurveyor said:
Representation has everything to do with it.

I didn't fail to face anything. You want me to say the government can use guns to enforce the law? Who in his right mind does not understand this???
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I want you to face the arguments in front of you. You can keep using that line if you want, but its hardly effective.

All done at our behest and continuing at our behest.
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That makes so little sense it gave me a migration and I have go lay down now. See you in a bit after it goes away. Before I go though, I will try to finish this post. God, it hurts.

Of course it does. Regardless of some apparent ID laws in some states this is NOT the USSR nor anything even close to it.
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Whatever your point is, go ahead and make it. As it stands you are talking about voting and I'm talking about taxes.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
Don't even try to play dumb with me.
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How is informing you of reality and its consequences anything but dealing with you in 100% honesty?
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

DA60 said:
Yup - and that option is to do everything in my power not to pay more taxes then I feel are fair.
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FAIRNESS - whatever that is - has not a damn thing to do with it.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Henrin said:
I want you to face the arguments in front of you. You can keep using that line if you want, but its hardly effective.

That makes so little sense it gave me a migration and I have go lay down now. See you in a bit after it goes away. Before I go though, I will try to finish this post. God, it hurts.

Whatever your point is, go ahead and make it. As it stands you are talking about voting and I'm talking about taxes.
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Voting and taxes are intimately related. Perhaps your ignorance of this is the problem? At the national level tax laws are passed by our elected representatives. We vote them into office to make most of our governmental decisions for us. If you don't like that system there are three options open to you as noted earlier.

Most taxes, sales and property taxes where I live for example, are such that The People vote on them directly. My state/county/city representatives can recommend a change in taxes but The People vote on those changes directly, which could include getting rid of them completely (if we all went collectively insane). There are also ways citizens can put changes on the ballot, including changes in taxes. So, no, I'm not avoiding anything. If anything you are avoiding your personal responsibility to government - in fact, you seem completely blind to it. You cannot separate voting and the laws that result from the outcome of that vote, including tax laws.



Ed:
BTW - In the past 15+ years here I have voted twice to raise property taxes and once not to raise them. They've been raised once. Voting works. If you don't vote then don't bitch about the outcome.
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

haymarket said:
FAIRNESS - whatever that is - has not a damn thing to do with it.
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It does for me.


Have a nice day.
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

DA60 said:
It is for me.


Have a nice day.
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Even cpwill admits that the term FAIR or FAIRNESS needs to be crushed and flushed in a discussion on taxes. It is a term which nobody agrees upon from either side. As such it is meaningless and is an obstacle in debate.
 
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