• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

Is paying your taxes patriotic?

  • Yes, it is our duty as citizens to pay into the system that we have reaped the benefits from.

    Votes: 38 77.6%
  • No, if you can get away with it, why not.

    Votes: 5 10.2%
  • Who cares!

    Votes: 6 12.2%

  • Total voters
    49
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

This one change alone would completely fix the problem.

following the constitution and having 5 supreme court justices who understand the tenth amendment and agree to uphold it would put an end to a need for a tax rate higher than 5%
 
YOu are confused again. 3-8 is AVERAGE?

the fact remains-those in the education major are the bottom of the barrel

and you can not deny that.

we couldn't care less about the obvious grade inflation.

All you now have to do is show us that each of those students did not earn the grades they were given.

Apparently your definition of LOGIC is "speculation based on ideological self imposed beliefs when no verifiable data is available to support my prejudices."
 
Last edited:
All you now have to do is show us that each of those students did not earn the grades they were given.

if 3.8 is what is average in the department than what does that show


your problem is not if they earned them but how they compare to the much smarter and able students in other majors.

It would be idiotic with a department with an average ACT score of 24 and HS GPA of 2.7 gives out 80% A grades and 20% B grades meaning those in that major garner most of the university honors while another major where the average ACT score is 33 and HS GPA is 3.9 awards 25% A, 25% B, 25% C and 25% D or less.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Do you know the difference between a nationwide tax policy for 300 million people and one lone individual?

Is that your way around saying that you too look for every tax credit and deduction you can get? :roll:
 
if 3.8 is what is average in the department than what does that show


your problem is not if they earned them but how they compare to the much smarter and able students in other majors.

It would be idiotic with a department with an average ACT score of 24 and HS GPA of 2.7 gives out 80% A grades and 20% B grades meaning those in that major garner most of the university honors while another major where the average ACT score is 33 and HS GPA is 3.9 awards 25% A, 25% B, 25% C and 25% D or less.

Just show us that the education majors did not earn the grades they were given.

I have no idea what "much smarter and able means". It matters not if a doctor can do complicated math if they can tend to a patients ailments. Smartness - as measured by something a test of something outside of ones field - is inconsequential.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Is that your way around saying that you too look for every tax credit and deduction you can get? :roll:

Please quote where I said that.

Like Indiana Jones, you seem to be making this up as you go along.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Please quote where I said that.

You were asked to make an example of yourself and pay as much in taxes as possible. You dodged and came back with nonsense. An indicator that you are avoiding the question/suggestion. But if you don't want your lack of a real response to suggest the most likely reality that I put forth, answer this:

Do you take all the tax credits and deductions that you can, or do you just put income on your form and calculate taxes owed off that total amount?

I (and probably a few others) will be standing by for your confirmation of hypocrisy.
 
Just show us that the education majors did not earn the grades they were given.

I have no idea what "much smarter and able means". It matters not if a doctor can do complicated math if they can tend to a patients ailments. Smartness - as measured by something a test of something outside of ones field - is inconsequential.

many posts ago I noted that the teachers' majors were the bottom of the barrel

you denied that and we proved it

now you are diverting

I couldn't care less. the point I made has been established and not rebutted. and maybe that is why that union is such a big fan of Obamunism and his tax hike schemes--a bunch of people with bogus or tainted degrees who are mad that the students who really made good grades in far more rigorous majors are now making 3-4X as much as those teachers. The teachers whine-"BUT I HAD A 3.8 GPA and that engineer only had a 3.0-its UNFAIR he makes 200K a year and the GOVERNMENT has to tax him more because I AM ENTITLED to that wealth not him"
 
You make the fatal error of assuming that four years of getting good grades in college is worth far less than one three hour test that may or may not measure any real information that they learned.

not really, the question is whether or not those four years of good grades indicate great academic work, or grade inflation. Since we have testing results both before and after college that demonstrate that the students do not go in to college with particularly productive academic skills and that they do not exit college having attained those skills, we have to conclude that grade inflation and easy-course loads in the education department is the remaining plausible answer.
 
Kids are forced to take things in high school that they may have no real interest in or no aptitude for. People are tested on the ACT in areas that they may have no aptitude for and will NOT even take in college. As a result their GPA may be lower in high school because of certain courses and their ACT may be lower for the same reason.

For example, let us take a person who simply loves the Social Studies and wants to be a teacher of History. In high school they have to take several years of both Math and Science. They have no interest in either nor any particular aptitude in either so they do as little as possible and never apply themselves to those courses. They get straight A's in their Social Studies courses however.

In college they take no math or science or perhaps a single course where they must. Their transcript is loaded with social studies classes at which they excel.

Your high school GPA was not a proper measure of if they are smart or not. The ACT with sections on both Math and Science is not a proper measure on if they are smart or not because they are being tested on areas they will not study nor use in their profession.

To stress those sort of rubrics as standards of intelligence and then to conclude that their other grades ( in their actual field plus education courses) are the ones in error is simply ridiculous. It should be the other way around.

Neither you nor Turtle can cite any actual study or evidence which shows that education majors do not properly earn their grades. And for you to have a valid point, that is what you must do.
 
LOL-nice evasion-I made a comment that teaching majors are the bottom of the barrel based on HS GPA and test scores. That has been established as true. Cp made the observation that the major has rampant grade inflation. That was never rebutted either. Now we are told that teaching majors do worse in areas that they are "not interested in" compared to say engineering majors taking French or history majors taking biology.

OKIE DOKIE
 
In general taxes are the cost of civilized society. Now this doesn't mean that there isn't optimization that needs to take place in our current system of what is charged and what is paid for. We can do far better managing this country.

Whether its patriotic or not, I guess that depends on the purpose of a particular tax and if you agree or not its good for the country.
 
In general taxes are the cost of civilized society. Now this doesn't mean that there isn't optimization that needs to take place in our current system of what is charged and what is paid for. We can do far better managing this country.

Whether its patriotic or not, I guess that depends on the purpose of a particular tax and if you agree or not its good for the country.

true-but what is hilarious is watching the left scream that its unpatriotic for the overtaxed rich to use legal means to decrease their taxes while the same laws allow almost half the USA to reap the same benefits of a "civilized society" without paying any federal income taxes
 
LOL-nice evasion-I made a comment that teaching majors are the bottom of the barrel based on HS GPA and test scores. That has been established as true. Cp made the observation that the major has rampant grade inflation. That was never rebutted either. Now we are told that teaching majors do worse in areas that they are "not interested in" compared to say engineering majors taking French or history majors taking biology.

OKIE DOKIE

Obviously, all you are interested in extreme partisan and ideological interpretations and are not interested in reality. I was somebody who worked in a high school for decades. I know what those damn tests are and for many kids - they are next to useless. I know what those GPA's are and in many cases they utterly fail to give you a proper picture of a kid and if they are smart or not.

You seem to be a slave to these tests and view them in a far different light than others do.

The stuff that you claim was not rebutted is irrelevant on its face. It does not mean what you want it to mean and that is that the people who do well are somehow better or smarter or more able than others. It simply is not so. And the success of educators in college proves it .

Unless however you can show us that the education majors did not earn those grades. So how about it? Can you do that?
 
true-but what is hilarious is watching the left scream that its unpatriotic for the overtaxed rich to use legal means to decrease their taxes while the same laws allow almost half the USA to reap the same benefits of a "civilized society" without paying any federal income taxes

Some of us want to do the patriotic thing and INCREASE taxes across the board for ALL Americans who earn dollar one.
 
Some of us want to do the patriotic thing and INCREASE taxes across the board for ALL Americans who earn dollar one.

yeah but we have seen your plan-it would raises taxes on the most overtaxed group at far far higher rates than that on the groups that are paying far less than they should

as to the teachers unions-we have demonstrated they tend to be the bottom of the talent barrel but then are given outrageously inflated GPAs which might explain why they have such an outrageous sense of entitlement to the wealth of others
 
Some of us want to do the patriotic thing and INCREASE taxes across the board for ALL Americans who earn dollar one.
But there isnt a single member of the political class who advocates raising taxes on the middle-class. But I agree with you--which is probably a first--if people want government to change their diapers and hold their hands throughout their lives,they have to be prepared to bear the costs. The problem with leftists is that they push the idea that all these goodies grow on trees.
 
If you believe the government is helping America...then it is patriotic to pay your taxes.

If you believe the opposite - then to support an entity that you believe is hurting America is not patriotic (in my opinion).
 
Kids are forced to take things in high school that they may have no real interest in or no aptitude for. People are tested on the ACT in areas that they may have no aptitude for and will NOT even take in college. As a result their GPA may be lower in high school because of certain courses and their ACT may be lower for the same reason.

For example, let us take a person who simply loves the Social Studies and wants to be a teacher of History. In high school they have to take several years of both Math and Science. They have no interest in either nor any particular aptitude in either so they do as little as possible and never apply themselves to those courses. They get straight A's in their Social Studies courses however.

In college they take no math or science or perhaps a single course where they must. Their transcript is loaded with social studies classes at which they excel.

Your high school GPA was not a proper measure of if they are smart or not. The ACT with sections on both Math and Science is not a proper measure on if they are smart or not because they are being tested on areas they will not study nor use in their profession.

To stress those sort of rubrics as standards of intelligence and then to conclude that their other grades ( in their actual field plus education courses) are the ones in error is simply ridiculous. It should be the other way around.

Neither you nor Turtle can cite any actual study or evidence which shows that education majors do not properly earn their grades. And for you to have a valid point, that is what you must do.

Man can you weave a tale to try to excuse or explain away anything, can't you?
 
Kids are forced to take things in high school that they may have no real interest in or no aptitude for. People are tested on the ACT in areas that they may have no aptitude for and will NOT even take in college. As a result their GPA may be lower in high school because of certain courses and their ACT may be lower for the same reason.

For example, let us take a person who simply loves the Social Studies and wants to be a teacher of History. In high school they have to take several years of both Math and Science. They have no interest in either nor any particular aptitude in either so they do as little as possible and never apply themselves to those courses. They get straight A's in their Social Studies courses however.

In college they take no math or science or perhaps a single course where they must. Their transcript is loaded with social studies classes at which they excel.

LOL-nice evasion-I made a comment that teaching majors are the bottom of the barrel based on HS GPA and test scores. That has been established as true. Cp made the observation that the major has rampant grade inflation. That was never rebutted either. Now we are told that teaching majors do worse in areas that they are "not interested in" compared to say engineering majors taking French or history majors taking biology.

Yeah, I'd say Turtle pretty much smashed this one. We are to believe that the phenomena of people only doing well in the subjects that interest them is one that occurs only in those who go on to be education majors? That all other majors are mysteriously made up of students who do well in subjects that are not their focus? And that this somehow does not instead validate the claim that education majors are made up of relatively poorer academic achievers?

:lol:

Haymarket said:
Your high school GPA was not a proper measure of if they are smart or not.

that is correct - it is a measure of your academic achievement.

The ACT with sections on both Math and Science is not a proper measure on if they are smart or not

Actually those are, since by that time you have been exposed to the concepts you are being tested on. Your ability to retain and apply concepts is indeed a proper measure of intellectual ability.

Neither you nor Turtle can cite any actual study or evidence which shows that education majors do not properly earn their grades.

yeah, except I notice that you conveniently keep refusing to address that while education majors overperform their peers in college when it comes to grades, they then underperform them on measures of graduate-level learning achieved.
 
Last edited:
yeah but we have seen your plan-it would raises taxes on the most overtaxed group at far far higher rates than that on the groups that are paying far less than they should

as to the teachers unions-we have demonstrated they tend to be the bottom of the talent barrel but then are given outrageously inflated GPAs which might explain why they have such an outrageous sense of entitlement to the wealth of others

And despite being challenged many many times, you are still impotent to offer any verifiable evidence that education majors who become teachers did not earn the grades they were given in college.

All you continue to do is to make pompous personal pontifications based on your own self imposed extremist belief system.
 
Man can you weave a tale to try to excuse or explain away anything, can't you?

And which you are apparently both powerless and impotent to refute.
 
from cpwill

Thank you. NOTHING in your reply had one iota of verifiable information showing that education majors who become teachers did not fully deserve the grades they earned in college.

Here is what it comes down to for you and the others on the far right in your own words which reveal the real problem:

We are to believe that the phenomena of people only doing well in the subjects that interest them is one that occurs only in those who go on to be education majors?

The operative word there being the word BELIEVE. You believe what you want to believe because you chose to believe it because you want to believe it. This latest flap is simply the latest example.

I stated the obvious many times

Neither you nor Turtle can cite any actual study or evidence which shows that education majors do not properly earn their grades.

cp attempts to counter with


yeah, except I notice that you conveniently keep refusing to address that while education majors overperform their peers in college when it comes to grades, they then underperform them on measures of graduate-level learning achieved.

I remember no data presented of that. Could you offer a link please?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom