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Is paying your taxes Patriotic? [W:102]

Is paying your taxes patriotic?

  • Yes, it is our duty as citizens to pay into the system that we have reaped the benefits from.

    Votes: 38 77.6%

  • No, if you can get away with it, why not.

    Votes: 5 10.2%

  • Who cares!

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • Total voters
    49
cpwill said:
LOL

So Education Majors overwhelmingly do the worst in High School, but then get to college and all become above average? It's a miracle!

Oh, except apparently upon graduation they momentarily forget it all long enough to also rack up lower scores than any other major on graduate school admissions tests such as the GRE, MCAT, or LSAT.


Huh. Odd, that. :thinking
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These scores really mean alot to you on the right. Why not just give these tests and then assign a person a status for life based on how they do in high school?
 
haymarket said:
These scores really mean alot to you on the right. Why not just give these tests and then assign a person a status for life based on how they do in high school?
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The GRE, MCAT, and LSAT are taken for entry into graduate school. Education majors not only score the worst in High School, they get worse grades in High School.

Then they go to college, where they get amazingly high grades, indicating that either A) they all have incredible academic turn-arounds, or that B) education programs are so incredibly undemanding that even mediocre and low-performing college students can do well in them.

Then they take post-graduate exams, and score the worst on them, demonstrating that no particular academic turn-around has occurred. (A) having been falsified, option (B) remains far and away the most likely hypothesis.
 
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Though this part:

Why not just give these tests and then assign a person a status for life based on how they do in high school?
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is not a horrible idea - though I wouldn't "assign" so much as I would "make multiple paths more available". Our current everyone-needs-to-go-to-college-and-major-in-the-humanities emphasis ill-serves our students and our economy. We would benefit far more if we expanded the extent to which we enable student pursuit of non-academic learning during and post-high school
 
cpwill said:
The GRE, MCAT, and LSAT are taken for entry into graduate school. Education majors not only score the worst in High School, they get worse grades in High School.

Then they go to college, where they get amazingly high grades, indicating that either A) they all have incredible academic turn-arounds, or that B) education programs are so incredibly undemanding that even mediocre and low-performing college students can do well in them.

Then they take post-graduate exams, and score the worst on them, demonstrating that no particular academic turn-around has occurred. (A) having been falsified, option (B) remains far and away the most likely hypothesis.
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You make the fatal error of assuming that four years of getting good grades in college is worth far less than one three hour test that may or may not measure any real information that they learned.
 
wolv67 said:
What benefits? In the case of Romney I agree completely that he's unpatriotic. I understand the argument that the government wouldn't put the $ to use for crap, but the fact remains he's benefit enormously from living here, living under almost no regulations. If you're treated as a 2nd class citizen, however, then no, I would find ways around paying taxes as he has done. A government that can't ensure equal rights for all will never be collecting revenue from me.
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what oozing nonsense-the man pays millions each year in taxes. and what exactly is he GIVEN by the government that you DON'T get
 
haymarket said:
From Turtle



So what? We are talking about how people do in college. Not high school which is filled with immature teens with all sorts of problems and difficulties which often overwhelm their lives and often fail to produce an accurate picture of their intelligence or abilities.



Nothing in that offers any proof that those grades are not deserved.



That may be an indictment of Cornell Engineering and has nothing to do with colleges of education or how students seems to excel.

As to your Chicago article - many teachers - especially secondary teachers - are specialists of sorts. One can have tremendous intelligence and abilities in certain subjects while being outright bad in others on those tests. A person can be a genius in social studies content while having the inability to do anything beyond the four basic mathematical computations. Standard tests like the ones in that article fail to take that into account and are thus highly suspicious as any true measurement of the intelligence and ability of a teacher in their field.
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You don't get it-the reason why the least intelligent college students get high grades in the teaching departments is that the professors in that field are engaging in rampant grade inflation. Make all the excuses you want-the teaching major is the dumping ground for the dullards and the dimwitted in college
 
cpwill said:
LOL

So Education Majors overwhelmingly do the worst in High School, but then get to college and all become above average? It's a miracle!

Oh, except apparently upon graduation they momentarily forget it all long enough to also rack up lower scores than any other major on graduate school admissions tests such as the GRE, MCAT, or LSAT.

Huh. Odd, that. :thinking
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OUCH after they get thrashed on the LSAT or GRE they figure its time to get a teaching masters since they aren't getting into law school or say the PhD program in history or biology
 
haymarket said:
You make the fatal error of assuming that four years of getting good grades in college is worth far less than one three hour test that may or may not measure any real information that they learned.
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getting good grades when the grade inflation is such that 3.8 is an average is worthless Cornell engineering is one of the finest schools in the country. far more demeaning to get into than any public high school teacher's major.
 
TurtleDude said:
You don't get it-the reason why the least intelligent college students get high grades in the teaching departments is that the professors in that field are engaging in rampant grade inflation. Make all the excuses you want-the teaching major is the dumping ground for the dullards and the dimwitted in college
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So your saying that all the Profs in ivy league schools that had teaching majors are dullards...hmm interesting
 
lpast said:
So your saying that all the Profs in ivy league schools that had teaching majors are dullards...hmm interesting
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we didn't have a teaching major at Yale. people planning on teaching generally were shooting for professorships in real subjects like Physics, math, history and English Those who wanted to teach in high school tended to get masters in real subjects and go to private schools where they wanted expertise in the subject matter, rather than having those NEA required "teaching" masters
 
TurtleDude said:
You don't get it-the reason why the least intelligent college students get high grades in the teaching departments is that the professors in that field are engaging in rampant grade inflation. Make all the excuses you want-the teaching major is the dumping ground for the dullards and the dimwitted in college
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We all must have missed the part where you and cp actually document that allegation with verifiable evidence that those education majors DID NOT earn the grades they were given.

Do you have that to present to us now?

Look - we get it. This is not our first rodeo.

1- public school teachers belong to unions.
2- the right wing hates unions.
3- unions back Democratic party candidates.
4- the right wing hates the Democratic Party
5- it becomes an imperative that you then go on a crusade against every aspect involving educators.

This is only about your own prejudices.
 
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haymarket said:
We all must have missed the part where you and cp actually document that allegation with verifiable evidence that those education majors DID NOT earn the grades they were given.

Do you have that to present to us now?

Look - we get it. This is not our first rodeo.

1- public school teachers belong to unions.
2- the right wing hates unions.
3- unions back Democratic party candidates.
4- the right wing hates the Democratic Party
5- it becomes an imperative that you then go on a crusade against every aspect involving educators.

This is only about your own prejudices.
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Cp pretty well spelled it out-Logical people could follow it easily

teacher majors are high school dullards

they go into the major where they get much higher average grades than what many elite or far more competitive majors award

yet when they take standardized tests they are back to being dullards.

its not about prejudices-its about the fact that there are few groups that have a more inflated view of what they are worth than the teachers' unions and few groups has as high a ratio of what they feel they are worth versus their actual level of talent.

I am sure that those teachers majors "earned" their grades as long you don't pretend that a 3.8 in your major (where that is average) is the same as 3.8 at say Columbia or Cornell law where 3.3 gets you Order of the Coif.

its like being a varsity starter on the williams college tennis team vs one at Stanford, UCLA or Georgia
 
cpwill said:
is not a horrible idea - though I wouldn't "assign" so much as I would "make multiple paths more available". Our current everyone-needs-to-go-to-college-and-major-in-the-humanities emphasis ill-serves our students and our economy. We would benefit far more if we expanded the extent to which we enable student pursuit of non-academic learning during and post-high school
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This is not unlike some other countries, like Germany, where depending how you do, and the path you take, depends how far the state pays for you to go..
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Captain America said:
Americans paid the lowest tax rates in 30 years to the federal government in 2009, in part because of tax cuts President Obama sought to combat the Great Recession, congressional budget analysts said Tuesday. <snip>
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Do you agree then that we should not be discussing the temporary Bush tax cuts? Instead we should call them the current Obama tax rates?

During Obama’s first year in office, the average tax rate paid by all households fell to 17.4 percent, down from 19.9 percent in 2007, according to the CBO. The 2009 rate was significantly lower than the previous low of 19.4 percent in 2003 and well below the 30-year average of 21 percent.
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Would you please clarify something for me? When you say the average tax rate paid by all households do you include the roughly one half of households who do not pay the federal income tax?
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Misterveritis said:
Would you please clarify something for me? When you say the average tax rate paid by all households do you include the roughly one half of households who do not pay the federal income tax?
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Or do all the households that get money back they never paid in count as a negative impact on that number?
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

haymarket said:
sad that the selfish and greedy place themselves and their worship of Mammon above America and the American people.
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Hay? You can lead by example. Maximize your taxes to show us ho the unselfish and ungreedy do it. Sell all that you own and give the proceeds to the almighty government.

Tell us that you take no notice of the actual tax laws and just give all that you earn to the government.
 
TurtleDude said:
Cp pretty well spelled it out-Logical people could follow it easily

teacher majors are high school dullards

they go into the major where they get much higher average grades than what many elite or far more competitive majors award

yet when they take standardized tests they are back to being dullards.

its not about prejudices-its about the fact that there are few groups that have a more inflated view of what they are worth than the teachers' unions and few groups has as high a ratio of what they feel they are worth versus their actual level of talent.

I am sure that those teachers majors "earned" their grades as long you don't pretend that a 3.8 in your major (where that is average) is the same as 3.8 at say Columbia or Cornell law where 3.3 gets you Order of the Coif.

its like being a varsity starter on the williams college tennis team vs one at Stanford, UCLA or Georgia
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that is all speculation and jumping to conclusions because both of you hate teachers and unions and democrats.

Where is your verifiable evidence that those education majors did not earn those grades?
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Misterveritis said:
Hay? You can lead by example. Maximize your taxes to show us ho the unselfish and ungreedy do it. Sell all that you own and give the proceeds to the almighty government.

Tell us that you take no notice of the actual tax laws and just give all that you earn to the government.
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Do you know the difference between a nationwide tax policy for 300 million people and one lone individual?
 
haymarket said:
that is all speculation and jumping to conclusions because both of you hate teachers and unions and democrats.

Where is your verifiable evidence that those education majors did not earn those grades?
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Its not speculation but pure logic


the stupidest people at age 18 are still the stupidest at age 22 but for four years they get higher GPAs than those in real majors.

so either the teaching department has rampant grade inflation

or makes dullards temporarily smarter than the other people wo take GRE's GMATs LSATs or MCATS but that wisdom boost is like cocaine-it wears off quickly
 
TurtleDude said:
Its not speculation but pure logic


the stupidest people at age 18 are still the stupidest at age 22 but for four years they get higher GPAs than those in real majors.

so either the teaching department has rampant grade inflation

or makes dullards temporarily smarter than the other people wo take GRE's GMATs LSATs or MCATS but that wisdom boost is like cocaine-it wears off quickly
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Show us where the education majors did not earn the grades they were given. And lead you prejudice fueled speculation at the door. We are looking for evidence..... not for your connecting the dots on different pages to produce the picture that your belief system tells you to produce.
 
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Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

OnWisconsin said:
Hypothetically, Romney makes 150 million a year.. Lets say he pays 50% tax, that still 75 million he gets to take to the bank. I make 50k a year and bring home 25k. Who has the higher tax burden?
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For those who do not find math particularly hard he does. Your burden is trivial compared to his.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

TheLastIndependent said:
Our crazy spending definitely needs to be stopped yes and our government needs to bring in more money yes
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Perhaps it is time for the government to sell off all of the lands it controls. That should bring in quite a bit.
 
haymarket said:
Show us where the education majors did not earn the grades they were given.
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YOu are confused again. 3-8 is AVERAGE?

the fact remains-those in the education major are the bottom of the barrel

and you can not deny that.

we couldn't care less about the obvious grade inflation.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

Misterveritis said:
Perhaps it is time for the government to sell off all of the lands it controls. That should bring in quite a bit.
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that's a great idea.
 
Re: Is paying your taxes Patriotic?

TurtleDude said:
if there was no withholding and everyone had to write out a check for their entire IRS bill the day before the elections are held we'd have a far far far smaller government
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This one change alone would completely fix the problem.
 
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