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African American Heritage

Mmm?

  • Yes, blacks have their own heritage.

    Votes: 12 80.0%

  • Yes, blacks can create something else.

    Votes: 1 6.7%

  • No, blacks lack heritage.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, black identity politics depend on government.

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Total voters
    15
Tucker Case said:
Actually, Chris Rock called the 4th "White independence day" which is somewhat different from calling it a white holiday. He was noting the irony of calling it "Independence day" when many Americans remained slaves and, thus, were far from being independent.

He was certainly making a political point, but it is also a pretty valid one.
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So only whites should celebrate the 4th or is the point that we should do away with celebrating it at all?
 
X Factor said:
So only whites should celebrate the 4th or is the point that we should do away with celebrating it at all?
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Of course not. That's just the argument people have made up on their own in order to be offended by the factually correct comment made by Chris Rock. Nobody can actually be offended by it's actual content, so they make something up in order to be offended.

If anything, one might be able to say that it is an argument to have Juneteenth recognized as a national holiday (not just a black holiday, but a truly national one) celebrating the date when all Americans became free from the tyranny of others.

Or one can simply take note that it was a joke made by a comedian who is well-known for making similar jokes (see his bit about "He speaks so well, he's so well-spoken").
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
actually if you were throwing out such an accusation it would be dependent on you to prove it, or at the very least, defend it's use. Because such a claim is like any other, and the burden of proof would still rest with the claimant.

Sorry, people aren't assumed to be racist until proven innocent
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You are asking me to prove what exactly? That racism exists?

your post to me in #70

Pointing out that someone is using that accusation of racism, disingenuously, isn't the same as saying racism doesn't exist, or is a non issue
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You claimed that I was being disingenuous in the use of the word racism. So back it up with evidence as to that charge.
 
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Tucker Case said:
Of course not. That's just the argument people have made up on their own in order to be offended by the factually correct comment made by Chris Rock. Nobody can actually be offended by it's actual content, so they make something up in order to be offended.

If anything, one might be able to say that it is an argument to have Juneteenth recognized as a national holiday (not just a black holiday, but a truly national one) celebrating the date when all Americans became free from the tyranny of others.

Or one can simply take note that it was a joke made by a comedian who is well-known for making similar jokes (see his bit about "He speaks so well, he's so well-spoken").
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Whether he was joking or serious, I wasn't offended by his tweet. Nobody's obligated to view the 4th the way I do.
 
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X Factor said:
So only whites should celebrate the 4th or is the point that we should do away with celebrating it at all?
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the irony of this is had the British defeated us, black slaves would have been freed decades earlier than they were.
 
Tucker Case said:
Of course not. That's just the argument people have made up on their own in order to be offended by the factually correct comment made by Chris Rock. Nobody can actually be offended by it's actual content, so they make something up in order to be offended.

If anything, one might be able to say that it is an argument to have Juneteenth recognized as a national holiday (not just a black holiday, but a truly national one) celebrating the date when all Americans became free from the tyranny of others.

Or one can simply take note that it was a joke made by a comedian who is well-known for making similar jokes (see his bit about "He speaks so well, he's so well-spoken").
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My personal favorite is his skit about niggers. On a side note, I had a professorial who once told me only two groups of people can get a way with speaking the truth; comedians and the insane. Everyone else needs to be too preoccupied with offending others
 
haymarket said:
You are asking me to prove what exactly? That racism exists?
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you claimed that the term 'race card" was a tool to marginalize real racism , I pointed out that this assumption was false(http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/130204-african-american-heritage-7.html#post1060670026). You response was "now that I need to prove such an accusation was disingenuous. My reply was to point out that the mere accusation of racism isn't actually proof of racism, and that it's still dependent on the claimant to prove it's veracity(http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/130204-african-american-heritage-8.html#post1060670040)

so not only was there no claim of "racism not existing" on my part, but the accusation makes absolutely no sense in the context of our discussion, and seems to be the type of baseless brow beating, hinging on accusations of racism, that generally exemplify what cpwill would refer to as "the race-card"

rather ironic folding of events, to say the least...





haymarket said:
You claimed that I was being disingenuous in the use of the word racism. So back it up with evidence as to that charge.
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Actually I pointed out that highlighting disingenuous accusations of racism =/= claiming racism doesn't exist. If you took that as a personal accusation against something you stated here, that is little fault of mine
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
My personal favorite is his skit about niggers. On a side note, I had a professorial who once told me only two groups of people can get a way with speaking the truth; comedians and the insane. Everyone else needs to be too preoccupied with offending others
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You leaned into it, like white people. Rock says it's OK
 
Tomfoolery said:
Then you aren't as familiar with your favorite skit as I thought you might be.
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I was talking about his skit from bring the pain, not the one from kill the messenger. Also, seems rather odd, and pointless, to get upset over someone using the colloquial title of a skit. It's like all the outrage over Gwyneth Paltrow tweeting niggas in paris
 
Tucker Case said:
He stopped telling it because of how many white people reacted to it.
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really? That really surprises me; Rock doesn't seem like the type to bow to controversy. Rather sad too, being that it's a genius piece of comedy
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
really? That really surprises me; Rock doesn't seem like the type to bow to controversy. Rather sad too, being that it's a genius piece of comedy
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It wasn't controversy that bothered him, it was white people's reaction to the bit. It's why he created the later bit about when it's OK for a white person to say "nigger".
 
Tucker Case said:
It wasn't controversy that bothered him, it was white people's reaction to the bit. It's why he created the later bit about when it's OK for a white person to say "nigger".
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the dre rule!
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
I was talking about his skit from bring the pain, not the one from kill the messenger. Also, seems rather odd, and pointless, to get upset over someone using the colloquial title of a skit. It's like all the outrage over Gwyneth Paltrow tweeting niggas in paris
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St. Patrick's Day
Thanksgiving
China Town
Little Italy
Cinco de Mayo
The National Holocaust Museum
The Jewish Anti-Defamation League
Oktoberfest
Marti Gras
The French Quarter

...and so on are all a part of the American cultural experience reflecting the diverse heritages, cultures and histories of the American people that we ALL honor and celebrate. I don't see why Martin Luther King Day and Black History Month should be singled out as somehow bad for America under an argument that because they reflect heritage of the black community its a waste of time. You cannot talk about black history in America without honoring Eleanor Roosevelt, John Brown, Abraham Lincoln, Lyndon Johnson, John F Kennedy, Viola Liuzzo, Jonathan Myrick Daniels, Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. Maybe we just need to change the name to something else.
 
Smeagol said:
St. Patrick's Day
Thanksgiving
China Town
Little Italy
Cinco de Mayo
The National Holocaust Museum
The Jewish Anti-Defamation League
Oktoberfest
Marti Gras
The French Quarter

...and so on are all a part of the American cultural experience reflecting the diverse heritages, cultures and histories of the American people that we ALL honor and celebrate. I don't see why Martin Luther King Day and Black History Month should be singled out as somehow bad for America under an argument that because they reflect heritage of the black community its a waste of time. You cannot talk about black history in America without honoring Eleanor Roosevelt, John Brown, Abraham Lincoln, Lyndon Johnson, John F Kennedy, Viola Liuzzo, Jonathan Myrick Daniels, Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. Maybe we just need to change the name to something else.
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Not really sure what the above has to do with my post, but my earlier criticism was limited to black history month, and the penchant to hike out minor historical figures, as "filler" for the holiday
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Not really sure what the above has to do with my post, but my earlier criticism was limited to black history month, and the penchant to hike out minor historical figures, as "filler" for the holiday
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That's true...why should we have a black history month when there's such a huge societal and economic cost. I mean it's obvious that the existence of a black history month has such an adverse impact on you and other individuals lives. How could it not! I mean...you have to watch commercials that will mention it, the history channel always has programs on historical black figures.. It's ridiculous!
 
iliveonramen said:
That's true...why should we have a black history month when there's such a huge societal and economic cost. I mean it's obvious that the existence of a black history month has such an adverse impact on you and other individuals lives. How could it not! I mean...you have to watch commercials that will mention it, the history channel always has programs on historical black figures.. It's ridiculous!
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As a reply to what i just wrote your post makes little sense. 1) criticizing something isn't the same as demanding something ends 2) my criticism had little to do with personal hardship, and the same is true of some supposed "huge societal and economic cost"
 
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Dr. Chuckles said:
you claimed that the term 'race card" was a tool to marginalize real racism , I pointed out that this assumption was false(http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/130204-african-american-heritage-7.html#post1060670026). You response was "now that I need to prove such an accusation was disingenuous. My reply was to point out that the mere accusation of racism isn't actually proof of racism, and that it's still dependent on the claimant to prove it's veracity(http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/130204-african-american-heritage-8.html#post1060670040)

so not only was there no claim of "racism not existing" on my part, but the accusation makes absolutely no sense in the context of our discussion, and seems to be the type of baseless brow beating, hinging on accusations of racism, that generally exemplify what cpwill would refer to as "the race-card"

rather ironic folding of events, to say the least...







Actually I pointed out that highlighting disingenuous accusations of racism =/= claiming racism doesn't exist. If you took that as a personal accusation against something you stated here, that is little fault of mine
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You seem to either be missing the point or oblivious to it and instead pursuing your own peculiar ends and goals.

My point was clear: over the last decade or two, there has been a concerted effort from the right to attempt to remove or seriously minimize the mention of the term RACISM and to accuse most people who talk about it (as many here do often and frequently) of playing "the race card". There is no shortage of posts on this very site which have done this and almost all come from the right.

I then pointed out that if there is a "race card" it was printed and given gravitas by the racist themselves through their polices, their activities and their beliefs over a period of time throughout American history.
 
haymarket said:
You seem to either be missing the point or oblivious to it and instead pursuing your own peculiar ends and goals.

My point was clear: over the last decade or two, there has been a concerted effort from the right to attempt to remove or seriously minimize the mention of the term RACISM and to accuse most people who talk about it (as many here do often and frequently) of playing "the race card".
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none of which would change the fact that there are clear instances of people abusing the accusation of racism, like in your above post

haymarket said:
There is no shortage of posts on this very site which have done this and almost all come from the right.
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and such is not mutually exclusive to legitimate cases, of people using the "the race card", existing

haymarket said:
I then pointed out that if there is a "race card" it was printed and given gravitas by the racist themselves through their polices, their activities and their beliefs over a period of time throughout American history.
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again, I'm not following the reasoning here: are you saying it's racist to point out that someone is disingenuously using racial accusations for political purposes? That doesn't make sense
 
Hatuey said:
Sure is. When are they going to start teaching Native American history in schools? Actually - when are we going to start teaching that George Washington was the slave owning father of a nation who allowed Natives to be massacred? When are we going to start teaching that the guys who wrote "all men are created equal" really meant: all white protestant men of legal age are created equal? Or are we only going to start teaching the revisionist nonsense you believe in?

I'll make you a deal - when we start teaching a history that is not only non-rhetorical and concise but also inclusive of relevant aspects - you can preach to us about the "divisiveness" of teaching history that isn't white washed. Until then, hey, I'll guess I'll keep Black History Month and you can keep your creationism and beliefs that the FFs were demigods.
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I find it curious your use of "revisionist," since the examples you provide became the backbone for a revisionist history that rejected older narratives about the US. The revision came from a perspective which you yourself employ, not really the other way around. Then again, you probably meant to use "revisionism" in a negative sense, which was a response of historical discipline conservatives against the Marxist historians.
 
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Dr. Chuckles said:
none of which would change the fact that there are clear instances of people abusing the accusation of racism, like in your above post



and such is not mutually exclusive to legitimate cases, of people using the "the race card", existing



again, I'm not following the reasoning here: are you saying it's racist to point out that someone is disingenuously using racial accusations for political purposes? That doesn't make sense
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Did I miss the part where you actually reprinted where I "abused the accusation of racism"? I must have missed that and apparently so did you.
 
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