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Worst Piece of Legislation

Which is a worse piece of legislation?

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obvious Child

obvious Child

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Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell called the PPACA the "single worst piece of legislation" passed in modern times.

GOP: Voters will have final say on health care law - Yahoo! News

Apparently he forgot about the 2011 NDAA which allows for indefinite detention of American citizens on extremely questionable claims of supporting terrorism. The 2011 NDAA now allows the US Government to accuse ANYONE of providing some unstated level of support to terrorists as grounds for indefinite detention.

So answer me this:

Which is worst: Obamacare which effectively forces people to take at least some responsibility for their health insurance and sets up free market insurance exchanges in every state OR giving the Federal Government the right to throw literally anyone into jail indefinitely on questionable charges?
 
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obvious Child said:
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell called the PPACA the "single worst piece of legislation" passed in modern times.

GOP: Voters will have final say on health care law - Yahoo! News

Apparently he forgot about the 2011 NDAA which allows for indefinite detention of American citizens on extremely questionable claims of supporting terrorism. The 2011 NDAA now allows the US Government to accuse ANYONE of providing some unstated level of support to terrorists as grounds for indefinite detention.

So answer me this:

Which is worst: Obamacare which effectively forces people to take at least some responsibility for their health insurance and sets up free market insurance exchanges in every state OR giving the Federal Government the right to throw literally anyone into jail indefinitely on questionable charges?
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I would argue the New Deal was far worse-without it no Obamacare. Yeah the NDAA is worse than Obamacare when examined only on its own merits though the erosion of the concept of the tenth amendment is ultimately more worrisome
 
TurtleDude said:
I would argue the New Deal was far worse-without it no Obamacare. Yeah the NDAA is worse than Obamacare when examined only on its own merits though the erosion of the concept of the tenth amendment is ultimately more worrisome
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News bulletin from the historical record: The New Deal is not a single piece of legislation. But in a discussion about the single worst piece of legislation you managed to yet again work in Turtle talking point #7.
 
obvious Child said:
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell called the PPACA the "single worst piece of legislation" passed in modern times.

GOP: Voters will have final say on health care law - Yahoo! News

Apparently he forgot about the 2011 NDAA which allows for indefinite detention of American citizens on extremely questionable claims of supporting terrorism. The 2011 NDAA now allows the US Government to accuse ANYONE of providing some unstated level of support to terrorists as grounds for indefinite detention.

So answer me this:

Which is worst: Obamacare which effectively forces people to take at least some responsibility for their health insurance and sets up free market insurance exchanges in every state OR giving the Federal Government the right to throw literally anyone into jail indefinitely on questionable charges?
Click to expand...

I would say it is federal immigration law that is infintely amendable by the king, may be enforced or not based on pure whim. Perhaps a close second are "CCW permit" laws that make it a crime to carry a legally purchased handgun. Then there are the massive parties in Las Vegas or Hawaii at taxpayer expense laws that permit all sorts of expensive entertainment, travel, meals and lodging expenses, all done while being paid to perform some unrelated federal task, all at the taxpayer's expense. Hmm...
 
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haymarket said:
News bulletin from the historical record: The New Deal is not a single piece of legislation. But in a discussion about the single worst piece of legislation you managed to yet again work in Turtle talking point #7.
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Why do you post stuff that is obvious to me and everyone else. Of course it was not one piece of legislation but I was referring to the expansion of the commerce clause
 
TurtleDude said:
I would argue the New Deal was far worse-without it no Obamacare. Yeah the NDAA is worse than Obamacare when examined only on its own merits though the erosion of the concept of the tenth amendment is ultimately more worrisome
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How so? The 2011 NDAA just gave the Federal Government to act as a total and complete Police State. Obama should have vetoed that.
 
obvious Child said:
How so? The 2011 NDAA just gave the Federal Government to act as a total and complete Police State. Obama should have vetoed that.
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Uh I noted that purely reviewing each bill solely on its own merit the NDAA is worse but the obamacare bill might have longer lasting harm
 
TurtleDude said:
Uh I noted that purely reviewing each bill solely on its own merit the NDAA is worse but the obamacare bill might have longer lasting harm
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Well Obamcare in its current form largely doesn't have that problem. Roberts essentially limited it to what already existed. Remember that the power to tax is massive. By keeping the power within the power to tax and limiting it from the Commerce Clause the future harm has been greatly reduced.

Giving the Federal government police state powers is un-****ing believable. The GOP is a joke when it comes to claims it respects the Constitution.

McConnell implying that a police state isn't as bad as forcing personal responsibility highlights just how unhinged the GOP leadership in the Senate is.
 
obvious Child said:
Well Obamcare in its current form largely doesn't have that problem. Roberts essentially limited it to what already existed. Remember that the power to tax is massive. By keeping the power within the power to tax and limiting it from the Commerce Clause the future harm has been greatly reduced.

Giving the Federal government police state powers is un-****ing believable. The GOP is a joke when it comes to claims it respects the Constitution.

McConnell implying that a police state isn't as bad as forcing personal responsibility highlights just how unhinged the GOP leadership in the Senate is.
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both parties piss on the constitution
 
TurtleDude said:
Why do you post stuff that is obvious to me and everyone else. Of course it was not one piece of legislation but I was referring to the expansion of the commerce clause
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Which is NOT the topic of the thread.
 
haymarket said:
Which is NOT the topic of the thread.
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How are your posts relevant? I was explaining how each piece of legislation could be considered "worst" depending on a) standing alone

b) potential long term impact
 
obvious Child said:
...Apparently he forgot about the 2011 NDAA which allows for indefinite detention of American citizens on extremely questionable claims of supporting terrorism. The 2011 NDAA now allows the US Government to accuse ANYONE of providing some unstated level of support to terrorists as grounds for indefinite detention....
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no, it does NOT.
 
Thunder said:
no, it does NOT.
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Yeah it does. The 2011 NDAA effectively allows the Federal government to accuse you of supporting terrorism and then lets them indefinitely lock you up.

Granted, NASA had this power before, but it was pretty limited especially since they'd had to admit aliens exist.
 
No, the SCOTUS already ruled that trials are mandatory even for gitmo detainees. I think it's hard to top the Patriot Act either, or continuous renewal of funds for the Iraq invasion. This bill does have some needed components to it, whether one agrees with the mandate or not. A public option is what passed originally in the House and was sought by like 58 Senate democrats btw, not the mandate, so McConnell has no room to cry about it now.
 
ACA - egregious expansion of power over 311 million soveriegn individuals whose costs will wreck the federal fisc.

NDAA - egregious expansion of power over a handful of soveriegn individuals whose costs will not wreck the federal fisc.


:shrug:
 
cpwill said:
ACA - egregious expansion of power over 311 million soveriegn individuals whose costs will wreck the federal fisc.
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That largely remains to be seen. Cost projections are just that, cost projections. Furthermore, what people like you never address is the comparison cost to the status quo. It's rather dishonest to say this bill sucks because it will bankrupt us while ignoring that staying on track will do the same thing.

No one here who detracts from Obamacare has ever argued the cost of Obamacare in the context of the status quo. There's a reason for that.

NDAA - egregious expansion of power over a handful of soveriegn individuals whose costs will not wreck the federal fisc.
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Considering how your criteria of cost is questionable, your argument essentially is begging the question. Which we know is a fallacy. Try again and with less fail.

Maybe you think giving the Federal government the right to lock up anyone indefinitely for questionable charges is okay?
 
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