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Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?


  • Total voters
    91
The necessary means to survival is not always moral.

I have greater respect for those who place morality above their personal interest.
 
I have greater respect for those who place morality above their personal interest.

Well stealing isnt moral... Taxes are stealing no matter if you think you are doing it for the right reasons.
 
Well stealing isnt moral... Taxes are stealing no matter if you think you are doing it for the right reasons.

NO, that's BS. You have representation. A vote. A representative.
 
I have greater respect for those who place morality above their personal interest.

I'm not talking about me, I can die in a fire tomorrow and life for billions will go on. I'm talking about the world. If we keep expanding as we do, fifty to a hundred years from now conditions will be horrendous. Perpetual famine, even more wars over resources (and not just oil anymore), more intrusive government becoming necessary to put more bandaids over deep wounds. It'll happen, because our population will never stop growing.
 
NO, that's BS. You have representation. A vote. A representative.

Thats a fallacy, who do I have representing me? Just cause I vote doesnt mean I have a real say. Voting is just to lure you into the illusion that you have a say. I have no say in where my money goes when taxed, you are not nieve enough to think this? Why cant I choose where my taxes go at least? Instead of funding things I dont believe in.... I am forced by a social contract, FORCED... "but you can just move" BS why do I have to leave my home because I disagree with you? And where would I go? Just because you fall for the illusion doesnt mean I do, the constitution of no authority was written by men long dead, why am I obligated to follow this contract i did not sign!
 
Well stealing isnt moral... Taxes are stealing no matter if you think you are doing it for the right reasons.

The Constitution allows for Congress to levy taxes, which are necessary to sustain our society. The real debate is on what and where those taxes should be spent.
 
The Constitution allows for Congress to levy taxes, which are necessary to sustain our society. The real debate is on what and where those taxes should be spent.

Why is money needed to sustain society? In what way is this needed?

Read my comment above your last.
 
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Why is money needed to sustain society? In what way is this needed?

If you can't get your head around this simple concept then there is no helping you at all...

Have fun in your political bizarro universe.
 
Thats a fallacy, who do I have representing me? Just cause I vote doesnt mean I have a real say. Voting is just to lure you into the illusion that you have a say. I have no say in where my money goes when taxed, you are not nieve enough to think this? Why cant I choose where my taxes go at least? Instead of funding things I dont believe in.... I am forced by a social contract, FORCED... "but you can just move" BS why do I have to leave my home because I disagree with you? And where would I go? Just because you fall for the illusion doesnt mean I do, the constitution of no authority was written by men long dead, why am I obligated to follow this contract i did not sign!

YOur represntatives have names. You should know who they are.
 
Well stealing isnt moral... Taxes are stealing no matter if you think you are doing it for the right reasons.


You would have to prove the case that taxes are stealing. You have not done that.
 
I'm not talking about me, I can die in a fire tomorrow and life for billions will go on. I'm talking about the world. If we keep expanding as we do, fifty to a hundred years from now conditions will be horrendous. Perpetual famine, even more wars over resources (and not just oil anymore), more intrusive government becoming necessary to put more bandaids over deep wounds. It'll happen, because our population will never stop growing.

You make the case of people being smarter, not less moral. What would be the point of survival without morality?
 
You would have to prove the case that taxes are stealing. You have not done that.

Let me rephrase it, LEGAL PLUNDER. Can't really call it stealing when the state has a right in their eyes to take it right? I dont think they have the right to take what is not theirs, thats why I call it stealing.
 
Let me rephrase it, LEGAL PLUNDER. Can't really call it stealing when the state has a right in their eyes to take it right? I dont think they have the right to take what is not theirs, thats why I call it stealing.

If you believe that, you have the right under the Constitution to take your case to the courts. Let us know when you have a decision in your favor, um-kay? Until then, you don't have a leg to stand on with that argument.
 
If you believe that, you have the right under the Constitution to take your case to the courts. Let us know when you have a decision in your favor, um-kay? Until then, you don't have a leg to stand on with that argument.

It's an ethical argument, I've already made the argument, you addressed none of what I posted earlier. You quoted what you wanted because you know you cant argue against the stronger ethical argument I'm posing, bottom line. Your answers prove that.... I have my own to legs to stand on, you on the other hand use the crutch others have given you.
 
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It's an ethical argument, I've already made the argument, you addressed none of what I posted earlier.


You have offered no case for an ethical argument other that your own opinion which is far afield from most of the country for most of its history under both parties.
 
Let me rephrase it, LEGAL PLUNDER. Can't really call it stealing when the state has a right in their eyes to take it right? I dont think they have the right to take what is not theirs, thats why I call it stealing.

What state has our country become when property is considered more valuable than human life? It is deemed by many to be an appropriate expenditure and governmental function to protect "property" such as police/fire....and yet....it is deemed by the same to not be an appropriate expenditure/governmental function to protect the health of its citizenry.

The greatness of this country exists, not because of our accumulation of wealth and property, but in the value of its people.

There can be no greater governmental function and no wiser expenditure than protecting our nations #1 resource and asset.
 
What state has our country become when property is considered more valuable than human life?

Our country has always been one that would not infringe upon one's rights in order to furnish something for another. You can't steal my property in light of the possibility of losing your own, for example. This is not an act of placing "value of property" above "value of life." It's about protecting people's rights and not letting them infringe upon one another.
 
Our country has always been one that would not infringe upon one's rights in order to furnish something for another. You can't steal my property in light of the possibility of losing your own, for example. This is not an act of placing "value of property" above "value of life." It's about protecting people's rights and not letting them infringe upon one another.

That is a complete fallacy. Your argument rests on the incorrect assumption that "taxes" are stealing your property. The same argument would have to then say that taxing to have police/fire protection to protect property is "stealing your property".

Our American society, as any society exists for the betterment of its citizenry. Paying taxes is part of life, it is part of the price you pay to be a part of this society. You don't get the benefits of our society for free.
 
I don't have health insurance and I am against this bill. It is a noble goal but, this is not the way to go about it.

I said majority not all...and I agree its not the best way to go...but it is the only way, if we waited for the GOP to get a plan it would be the plan they always have had...Screw You unsuccessful slugs and leave us rich folk alone ...that doesnt work either
 
I said majority not all...and I agree its not the best way to go...but it is the only way, if we waited for the GOP to get a plan it would be the plan they always have had...Screw You unsuccessful slugs and leave us rich folk alone ...that doesnt work either
That's actually not the position of the GOP, the party diverges along two ideologies actually, there is a constitutionalist wing and a wing that is almost liberal in it's desire for more government than the founders envisioned(though less than many Democrats). It's split between the old guard and the new conservatives from the south. What Republicans tend to be against are expansions without a definitive fit to the necessary and proper standard, it isn't about "screw the poor".

In reality, Republicans tend to infight and shoot themselves in the foot too long to get a unified and coherent message of where the party stands and end up looking like they are spineless and stupied. Both Republican and conservative Democrats when being honest agree on the real fixes, but no one has the political will to do it. The fixes are incredibly difficult and there are about three major lobbies on either side of the aisle to contend with.
 
That is a complete fallacy. Your argument rests on the incorrect assumption that "taxes" are stealing your property. The same argument would have to then say that taxing to have police/fire protection to protect property is "stealing your property".

Illness and death are universal certainties, and the costs associated with them are potentially limitless, meaning taxing away my property (or worse forcing me to surrender it to a corporation) increasingly and increasingly over time, and this stops looking like standard taxation and starts looking like something much more abusive.

Our American society, as any society exists for the betterment of its citizenry. Paying taxes is part of life, it is part of the price you pay to be a part of this society. You don't get the benefits of our society for free.

Talk about a fallacy (straw man to be exact). Neither I nor any other fiscally conservative person wants to live here for free. We simply don't want to be forced by federal law to pay everyone else's bills at a cost of 5% more of our annual pay year over year. That is bankrupting the citizenry, which is certainly not for our "betterment."
 
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It's a right from your parents who force you into the world and society without prior consent.

Theoretically speaking, their obligation to uphold this right could carry unto their deathbed, but hopefully, it's relieved once children are graduated into adulthood by demonstrating maturity through a rite of passage.

How would they obtain prior consent?
 
You would have to prove the case that taxes are stealing. You have not done that.

Would govt taxing 100% of your income be stealing?
 
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