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Health Care; Privlege, Right or Responsibility?

Is access to health care a privilege, right or responsibility?


  • Total voters
    91
Which of us is arguing that some ought to labor, on demand, with no compensation, for the benefit of others?
Im "using that argument"?


Let's see, you believe someone ought to work for your benefit. How is that not slavery?
Everyone works for everyone's benefit if you did not realize that..
That food you ate someone grew, someone picked, someone inspected, someone trucked, someone put it on the shelf.
 
UHC.
If your sick, if you need surgery, if you need treatment.
That doesn't answer the question, and if you make health care a right without being specific, you could end up with something less than aspirin.
 
That doesn't answer the question, and if you make health care a right without being specific, you could end up with something less than aspirin.
Yep, the less control you have personally the less options you end up with. Some people use the private insurance denials as a comparison, but with private plans you can do research, speak with an agent, and choose alternatives. Under UHC you pay additional taxes for an insufficiently funded system and take whatever "they" give you.
 
Im going to "kill you, lock you up, hurt you, and steal from you"? What?

What happens if you I dont pay taxes(legal plunder) for your education, medical care, or whatever else you want socialized? Or in this case insurance.

I cant resist, can I? Oh wait I can, but I will be injured during the arrest, locked up, and fined or i could killed resisting. You are not personally doing it no, this is true, but you might as well be cause it is through your will this happens. Vote, will, ideology same thing.

I'm sure you support social contract. I'm born here so I have no real freedom, I have the illusion through voting. "You can just leave if you dont want to be here" is the argument most say. Why am I forced to leave my home?

What kind of supposed free society is this?
 
Im "using that argument"?
Everyone works for everyone's benefit if you did not realize that..
That food you ate someone grew, someone picked, someone inspected, someone trucked, someone put it on the shelf.
Up is down. Left is right. Hard is easy.

Got it. I suppose when words have precisely the meaning you want for them at that very moment then socialism can make sense to you.
You want others to work for your benefit. That is slavery.
 
Before we get too mired in the polemics devolving about socialism and capitalism, we should remember that there are no 'God given' rights. Even the rights enumerated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and universally accepted as such, are simply the result of agreement between those societies who have formally accepted this declaration. So, outside and including such international agreements, all rights are granted by the society concerned.

Different societies will value different rights more or less, and will interpret such matters differently. 'Freedom of speech' is an example thereof. Some societies allow freedom of speech up to the point where it impinges upon the rights of others to go about their business lawfully, without being the subject of public slander. Others allow anyone to say anything publicly, even to the point of engendering hatred of entire demographics.

The vast majority of developed societies value health care for everyone, irrespective of financial or social standing, and employ systems designed to ensure this. In those societies, health care is regarded as both, a right of the individual, and a responsibility of the society concerned. In other societies, principally third world ones, health care is regarded as a privilege, and the province of the very wealthy. It very much depends upon the human values of the society concerned.

In short, there is no possible answer to the question posed in the OP. Were that question - "Should health care be a privilege, right, or responsibility?" It might be more easily answered, but the responses would still be subjective - depending upon the nationality and value system of the responder. If you regard taxation as tantamount to robbery under arms - end of discussion on any aspects of civilisation!
 
If you regard taxation as tantamount to robbery under arms - end of discussion on any aspects of civilisation!

So taking my money without my permission is not robbery or as I stated LEGAL PLUNDER? And when I refuse I'm not confronted by men with guns?

What aspects? You make it sound as if taxes create civilization.
 
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in a perfect world, healthcare is a responsibility that all people take seriously.

but unfortunately, in the real-world...many folks don't take this responsibility seriously, until their lives depend on it.

....and then they are up ****'s creek.

which gives society the choice of letting them die....or treating them even though they can't afford it by any means.

so of course, we heal the sick...regardless of their ability to pay. and then we ALL share the cost.

so unless we are gonna let folks simply die on the street, everyone should have adequate health insurance.

either we require folks to buy it & we help them do this..or we fund it for all through taxes.

This is why I think we should amend the ACA with an automatic public PPO. The government creates a basic PPO and you can use that as your health insurance if you want to. Your other option is to have private insurance (or some other form). If you already have health insurance through your company or have bought into one of the exchanges or you have the VA or Medicare, you don't have to pay premiums into the public PPO. If you don't have anything else, you're automatically enrolled into the public PPO and you pay premiums (or taxes) into it. That way, everyone is insured and gone are the days when an uninsured person goes into the ER with an emergency (heart attack, car wreck or whatever) and then stiffs them for payment. It would also eliminate the need for a penalty for those who don't purchase insurance.
 
Health care is not any of the above. It defies rights privileges and much more. It is life and death and morbidity
 
Can I ask at what point during the debate did people without insurance become the bad guys? I seem to remember during the initial debate that they were the victims. Also, if the main concern has shifted to keeping "free riders" from mooching off the system when they get sick, why should people who have enough money to pay for medical care without insurance, now have to buy it?
 
Can I ask at what point during the debate did people without insurance become the bad guys? I seem to remember during the initial debate that they were the victims. Also, if the main concern has shifted to keeping "free riders" from mooching off the system when they get sick, why should people who have enough money to pay for medical care without insurance, now have to buy it?

I don't know. My question is simply since when does anyone have a right to anothers labor? If they want to fix the medical system, I think a great way to do it would be to abolish the insurance system altogether. Due pay for due services like anything else.
 
I don't know. My question is simply since when does anyone have a right to anothers labor? If they want to fix the medical system, I think a great way to do it would be to abolish the insurance system altogether. Due pay for due services like anything else.

Only the rich that can afford a heart bypass get one? That is not what you are suggesting is it?
 
I don't know. My question is simply since when does anyone have a right to anothers labor? If they want to fix the medical system, I think a great way to do it would be to abolish the insurance system altogether. Due pay for due services like anything else.


How would you change the price structure of a heart transplant of which there is only about 2500 a year and cost about a million dollars plus 2 to 3 k per month there after for a life time.
 
Part of the reasons why health care costs are so high is the insurance system. The whole damned thing is a scam.


The reason we can do kidney transplants (the most common transplant) to heart transplants is because of the insurance system. And we have great people living from these things.
 
Part of the reasons why health care costs are so high is the insurance system. The whole damned thing is a scam.

I agree our private insurance system as set up is part of the reason our health care costs are so high, but what are you going to replace the insurance system with? You didn't answer my questions above -

"Only the rich that can afford a heart bypass get one? That is not what you are suggesting is it?"
 
The reason we can do kidney transplants (the most common transplant) to heart transplants is because of the insurance system. And we have great people living from these things.

It's also part of the reason why a transplant costs a million+ dollars. The emphasis should not be on facilitating a system that drives costs up and places a ridiculous amount of stress on hospitals, but finding a way to bring medical costs down as low as possible.
 
Back my money up? I think I know what your saying, but I want a little more clarification beforen I respond.

Every dollar you have the federal government has a fiduciary responsibility for is what I mean.
 
I agree our private insurance system as set up is part of the reason our health care costs are so high, but what are you going to replace the insurance system with? You didn't answer my questions above -

"Only the rich that can afford a heart bypass get one? That is not what you are suggesting is it?"

Any insurance is going to do that, private, or subsidized. I didn't answer it, because you aren't going to like my answer.
 
Can I ask at what point during the debate did people without insurance become the bad guys? I seem to remember during the initial debate that they were the victims.

I'm not a bad guy, nor am I a victim. I'm arguing more about their "right" to take money from others. I dont have a job or insurance at this time.

Also, if the main concern has shifted to keeping "free riders" from mooching off the system when they get sick, why should people who have enough money to pay for medical care without insurance, now have to buy it?

Heh sorry, pardon my ignorance, whatahuh? Not sure who said that
 
It's also part of the reason why a transplant costs a million+ dollars. The emphasis should not be on facilitating a system that drives costs up and places a ridiculous amount of stress on hospitals, but finding a way to bring medical costs down as low as possible.

The reason a heart transplant costs so much is because it is a rare operation with a rare supply of hearts and thoracic surgeons are a rare breed.
 
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