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Who should PUBLIC tax payer funded school teacher evaluations be released to?

Who should PUBLIC tax payer funded school teacher evaluations be released to?

  • Anyone regardless where they live can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • Anyone who lives in school district can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • Anybody living school district. But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Anyone regardless where they live.But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Parents regardless where they live can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Parents who live in school district can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Parents living in school district. But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Parents regardless where they live.But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Public tax payer funded teachers should not have their evaluations released to anyone

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • other/I do not know.

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • Total voters
    25
I will let you in on a little secret: I kninda in a way like Rubio. I hate his policies and politics, but I think I would enjoy talking with him.

:lol: don't worry, I won't tell. Your secret is safe just between you, me, and the entire internet. :D



Seriously, however, he is likeable, and he is, I think, either honestly sincere, or the best actor since Gary Johnston. I think that alone will win him alot of lower-information left-leaning independents who maybe wouldn't support him on pure policy grounds. "Likeability" plays a heavier role with those folks.
 
And Bloomberg's tyrannical decision is going to help reduce teacher turnover how?

Who here is actually naive enough to think that only the "bad teachers" will be the ones to leave?
 
And Bloomberg's tyrannical decision is going to help reduce teacher turnover how?

Who here is actually naive enough to think that only the "bad teachers" will be the ones to leave?

In New-York it is extremely hard to fire a bad teacher. The only thing that really seems to get teachers fired are budget cuts and if New York is anything like California they they do their firings based on seniority instead of performance

Joel Klein vs. New York City teachers : The New Yorker
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/nyregion/16rubber.html
Rubber Rooms Redux, Teachers Unions and Taxpayers « Hot Air

Sacramento
 
In New-York it is extremely hard to fire a bad teacher. The only thing that really seems to get teachers fired are budget cuts and if New York is anything like California they they do their firings based on seniority instead of performance

Joel Klein vs. New York City teachers : The New Yorker
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/nyregion/16rubber.html
Rubber Rooms Redux, Teachers Unions and Taxpayers « Hot Air

Sacramento

You didn't answer my question. How is releasing all this previously confidential data going to reduce teacher turnover?
 
You didn't answer my question. How is releasing all this previously confidential data going to reduce teacher turnover?

It will make parents seek other schools.It will make parents push their elected officials even more to enact laws to make it easier to fire lousy teachers.Unlike New York California has what are called parent trigger laws.This is basically a die hard teacher union's worst nightmare. Releasing teacher evaluations to their employers IE the tax payers could aid in pushing for a parent trigger laws or some other laws to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers in New York.
 
It will make parents seek other schools.It will make parents push their elected officials even more to enact laws to make it easier to fire lousy teachers.Unlike New York California has what are called parent trigger laws.This is basically a die hard teacher union's worst nightmare. Releasing teacher evaluations to their employers IE the tax payers could aid in pushing for a parent trigger laws or some other laws to make it easier to get rid of bad teachers in New York.

You are STILL dodging my question. How does releasing previously confidential information reduce teacher turnover?
 
Where the money comes from is irreleant. McDonalds pays their employees with money that comes from you, as do schools.

Its very relevant. One is forced, the other is voluntary. There is a definate distinction there.
 
You are STILL dodging my question. How does releasing previously confidential information reduce teacher turnover?

I don't care about turnover. I care about getting good teachers in the school system instead of ones that sleep during class like my 3rd period history teacher did when I was in school.

Besides, once there are good teachers then it should be obvious that the turnover rate would be less as they wouldn't need to be replaced for being bad teachers.
 
I might have accidentally picked the wrong one but parents who live in school district can get evaluations just by requesting them. I would also say other schools, especially if a teacher wants to transfer to another district. Only because those two have a vested interest in the teacher. Since schools are subsidized by state taxes, and not federal taxes (that I'm aware of) only those within the state of the school should have any access if that state has its own state income tax.
 
You are STILL dodging my question. How does releasing previously confidential information reduce teacher turnover?
Employers have the right to see the evaluations of their employees. Releasing employee evaluations to their employers will not reduce teacher turnover. T
 
I don't care about turnover.

Cat_FAIL.jpg

And with that one comment, you lose the debate.

Let me explain something to you. Teacher turnover is a SERIOUS problem. Serious enough that it significantly hurts teacher turnover (see a very recent study here.) Serious enough that teacher turnover costs, according to Forbes, $7.3 BILLION per year. As if schools needed any more problem, the conditions that encourage them to leave are KILLING are educational system, FAR more than this so-called "bad teacher problem" does. But armchair critics will never acknowledge this (lest they cease to BE armchair critics).
 
If you're a servant of the public, why shouldn't the public be able to evaluate you?

Make it convenient. Put it all onto an official website, neatly organized.

Isn't transparency a virtue?
 
It can be. It can also be a problem, since people like to take things out of context to generate political issues.

But if the literal evaluations are shown themselves, there'd be no problem?
 
Employers have the right to see the evaluations of their employees. Releasing employee evaluations to their employers will not reduce teacher turnover. T

Let's play a little game, shall we? Let's say that you are a bright, promising math student at a state college. It's your second semester of your freshman year, and you've got your major down to one of two options: Math Education, or simply Math. You're taking courses that count for both majors, but by the start of your sophomore year, you're going to need to make a choice. So which one are you going to choose? Well, you decide that it comes down to what the career options are. You way your options, and this is what you find:

Career in Mathematics
-Starting Salary: $50,000-$100,000, give or take, with plenty of room to grow
-Opportunities for significant career advancement
-Potential for developing brand-new inventions or ideas
-Only have to deal with management and other professionals
-Can always rely on support, so long as the work is done
-Always in demand
-Almost always respected in the corporate environment
-Usually work at-will

Career in Teaching Math
-Starting Salary: $25,000-35,000, give or take, with a fixed, very slow rate of annual growth that may not even surpass inflation
-Limited opportunities for career advancement
-Has to submit to a host of standards and regulations, as well as the whims of the current school administration
-Has to deal with disrespectful students and parents
-Support is wildly inconsistent and often independent of actual performance
-Always in demand, but politicians may choose to not let that demand be fulfilled
-May often be disrespected in the work and the political environments
-Hard to fire, but can be transferred or endlessly harassed for poor performance

You tell me: If you were that student, which career choice would you make?

And you wonder why we have "bad" teachers? Really? It's because schools get the leftovers. The best and brightest minds know better than to waste their potential teaching a bunch of brats that often don't want to learn, serving administrators that often don't support them, talking to parents that often despise them, and vulnerable to politicians that kick them around like soccer balls. And yet, somehow, someway, those "leftovers" actually pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get stuff done. Yeah, if there were ever a segment of society that has learned the hard way how to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, it ain't the superrich. It's the teachers. The fact that we have any education at ALL, however little you think we have, is almost entirely because of the iron will of the teachers. Were it not for them, we would have been gone a LONG time ago.

And you don't think their work is visible enough. TROLOLOLOLOL! How 'bout you stop hunting and start LOOKING at what they've been doing all along!
 
Let's play a little game...

You've uncovered one of the least recognized major problems in American public education here. Until teaching becomes an appealing profession, there will be no incentive for anyone with the potential to be a great teacher to pursue a teaching career. Publicly visible performance reviews can only make that situation worse.
 
But if the literal evaluations are shown themselves, there'd be no problem?

I've thought on this for a bit, and I've come to the conclusion that these evaluations should be open to relevant parties. School staff, district management, the parents of students who have legitimate concerns, so on, and so forth. Making these evaluations open to the public is of no benefit, and would likely cost the state more money.
 
That's a lot of options. I don't think it matters though. If they get terrible evals who will you replace them with? Who's going to evaluate them, the students who walk around telling each other how to vote? Or the admin that sits in on 1-2 classes a year? Until teachers are compensated comparably to the financial sector, don't expect our best and brightest to pursue teaching. Michelle Rhee tried to make some progress on getting the unions to give up tenure *for better pay* (unlike the douche in WI), but that one district doing so will not make a dent.

This was different back when women could basically only teach if they wanted to enter the work force, but nowadays it's pretty much the case that a few students in every class would be more effective. Those same kids would be better off learning at home.
 
Being a public employee doesnt mean you give up all your rights to privacy or other privledges that ALL other americans enjoy.
If Im a paying customer buying a product and SUPPORTING that company, should I have a right to all employee records I pay for them as much as any single tax payer pays for a public worker providing a service.
The public doesnt have the right to ride roughshod over public employees because their tax payers....our money collectively is keeping ALL companies afloat and their employees....this ownership thing of public employees has gotten way out of control
 
Let's play a little game, shall we? Let's say that you are a bright, promising math student at a state college. It's your second semester of your freshman year, and you've got your major down to one of two options: Math Education, or simply Math. You're taking courses that count for both majors, but by the start of your sophomore year, you're going to need to make a choice. So which one are you going to choose? Well, you decide that it comes down to what the career options are. You way your options, and this is what you find:

Career in Mathematics
-Starting Salary: $50,000-$100,000, give or take, with plenty of room to grow
-Opportunities for significant career advancement
-Potential for developing brand-new inventions or ideas
-Only have to deal with management and other professionals
-Can always rely on support, so long as the work is done
-Always in demand
-Almost always respected in the corporate environment
-Usually work at-will

Career in Teaching Math
-Starting Salary: $25,000-35,000, give or take, with a fixed, very slow rate of annual growth that may not even surpass inflation
-Limited opportunities for career advancement
-Has to submit to a host of standards and regulations, as well as the whims of the current school administration
-Has to deal with disrespectful students and parents
-Support is wildly inconsistent and often independent of actual performance
-Always in demand, but politicians may choose to not let that demand be fulfilled
-May often be disrespected in the work and the political environments
-Hard to fire, but can be transferred or endlessly harassed for poor performance

You tell me: If you were that student, which career choice would you make?

And you wonder why we have "bad" teachers? Really? It's because schools get the leftovers.

You just made the same argument I have made many times about who we are attracting into our education majors / career fields. Let us see now if you get the same YOU MUST HATE AND LOATHE TEACHERS reaction that I do...
 
Hmm - well, as a parent of 4 school kids who pays my taxes every year for public schooling.

I think I should have more of a say over my kid's schooling environment. If a teacher sucks ****ing nards I don't believe they should be allowed to sabotage my children for an entire school year.

If things were more 'up to the parents' our education system would be better off.

They would have to come to a system that still tried to protect the teacher from public scrutiny and without 'harassing' anyone - teacher, student and parent alike - so maybe a meeting of parents without the teacher and a few people from the district/staff (etc) would be more ideal - talk about concerns, share issues, discuss findings of a review - etc - without fear of lashback or getting their children in the hot seat for parental opinions.

The school should evaluate throughout the year - taking into account issues from students, from parents and other teachers as well as first-hand accounts of events. . .and use that with the teacher throughout the year to focus on issues that need to be addressed and changed - etc.

People seem all to ready to just hire or fire - but there needs to be a measure of time for improvement or to simply not repeat a problem.
 
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How many of us (if any), have that special ability to , well, judge others ?
And, without preconceived notions, bigotry, bias, racism ??
But, the parents and teachers should meet now and again...but no time ?
MAKE TIME !
But, at this point in time, I feel that the principals should do the evaluations, with some input from the children and the parents.
 
You just made the same argument I have made many times about who we are attracting into our education majors / career fields. Let us see now if you get the same YOU MUST HATE AND LOATHE TEACHERS reaction that I do...

Explain...
 
How many of us (if any), have that special ability to , well, judge others ?
And, without preconceived notions, bigotry, bias, racism ??
But, the parents and teachers should meet now and again...but no time ?
MAKE TIME !
But, at this point in time, I feel that the principals should do the evaluations, with some input from the children and the parents.

Was with you until that last line. Teachers already are given very little authority in the classroom; you want to give children even MORE power over them??
 
Hmm - well, as a parent of 4 school kids who pays my taxes every year for public schooling.

I think I should have more of a say over my kid's schooling environment. If a teacher sucks ****ing nards I don't believe they should be allowed to sabotage my children for an entire school year.

If things were more 'up to the parents' our education system would be better off.

They would have to come to a system that still tried to protect the teacher from public scrutiny and without 'harassing' anyone - teacher, student and parent alike - so maybe a meeting of parents without the teacher and a few people from the district/staff (etc) would be more ideal - talk about concerns, share issues, discuss findings of a review - etc - without fear of lashback or getting their children in the hot seat for parental opinions.

The school should evaluate throughout the year - taking into account issues from students, from parents and other teachers as well as first-hand accounts of events. . .and use that with the teacher throughout the year to focus on issues that need to be addressed and changed - etc.

People seem all to ready to just hire or fire - but there needs to be a measure of time for improvement or to simply not repeat a problem.

Suggestion: Check out post #65.
 
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