Who should PUBLIC tax payer funded school teacher evaluations be released to?

American · Jun 21, 2012

teamosil said:
Righties always seem to have such a hard on for teachers... Did you guys have a rough time in school or what?

What's with you man? Did you not just read my post about not making the evaluations public? But that doesn't fit your template about conservatives, so you go on stubborn as usual with your talking point.

jamesrage · Jun 21, 2012

Ikari said:
Can we do the same for military, police, firefighters, politicians, etc.?

Sure.Every tax payer funded employee from the school or city hall Janitor/groundskeeper all the way to the president is an employee of the tax payer.As their employers it our business to see the performance evauations of our employees.

jamesrage · Jun 21, 2012

Redress said:
We are not their employers, any more than we are not the employer of the mcDonalds worker who makes our food. The local school system is their employer.

That is simply false.Public school teachers are employees of the tax payer, much like police, firefighters, politicians and etc are employees of the tax payer. McDonalds is a privately owned company,employees of McDonalds are employees of a privately own company. Public school teachers do not work for a private company,teachers work for us the tax payer to educate our kids.If you were talking about a private school then you would have a point.

ttwtt78640 · Jun 21, 2012

jamesrage said:
Sure.Every tax payer funded employee from the school or city hall Janitor/groundskeeper all the way to the president is an employee of the tax payer.As their employers it our business to see the performance evauations of our employees.

I would not go that far into public "micro manangement" and violate the privacy of the people that work for us. I trust the gov't to manage its own day to day details, if the overall results are OK, if not, then changes AT THE TOP top are in order - let the new top folks take charge of the details. I would agree that the public be able to see how many, at what position description and at what pay rate each public employee is being used for, but their names, resumes and personnel files are not any public business, IMHO.

Redress · Jun 21, 2012

jamesrage said:
That is simply false.Public school teachers are employees of the tax payer, much like police, firefighters, politicians and etc are employees of the tax payer. McDonalds is a privately owned company,employees of McDonalds are employees of a privately own company. Public school teachers do not work for a private company,teachers work for us the tax payer to educate our kids.If you were talking about a private school then you would have a point.

This is simply false. School teachers are paid by the government, but they are employed by the local school system.

jimbo · Jun 21, 2012

Redress said:
This is simply false. School teachers are paid by the government, but they are employed by the local school system.

And where to you think the government and the school system gets their money? You just don't go down to the river and scoop up a bucketful of money. Taxpayers pay the bill. Many local school systems receive their funds from property taxes, governments from many tax sources, or by borrowing against the future.

In the case of McDonalds, the corporation pays the bills, and the funds come from sales. The stockholders are the owners, and as such are the employers. Authority is delegated, but the ultimate authority rests with the owners.

Actually, school teachers are not paid by the government as in your statement. School teachers are paid directly by the school system.

Kal'Stang · Jun 21, 2012

Redress said:
Being a public worker does not make you their employee. In the same way you should not be able to access my military record from when I served, nor my evaluations from that time, you should not be able to do that with teachers. If you have an issue with a teachers performance, you should go to their boss. As cp said(and it is scarey when he and I agree), those administrators should have more power to discipline and dismiss.

I figure that if people on foodstamps can told what they can buy with those foodstamps because they use "taxpayer money" then the same reasoning should apply here.

Gipper · Jun 21, 2012

ttwtt said:
I trust the gov't

Redress · Jun 21, 2012

jimbo said:
And where to you think the government and the school system gets their money? You just don't go down to the river and scoop up a bucketful of money. Taxpayers pay the bill. Many local school systems receive their funds from property taxes, governments from many tax sources, or by borrowing against the future.

In the case of McDonalds, the corporation pays the bills, and the funds come from sales. The stockholders are the owners, and as such are the employers. Authority is delegated, but the ultimate authority rests with the owners.

Actually, school teachers are not paid by the government as in your statement. School teachers are paid directly by the school system.

Where the money comes from is irreleant. McDonalds pays their employees with money that comes from you, as do schools.

jimbo · Jun 21, 2012

Redress said:
Where the money comes from is irreleant. McDonalds pays their employees with money that comes from you, as do schools.

"This is simply false. School teachers are paid by the government, but they are employed by the local school system.(Quote - Redress)

I didn't make where the money comes from relevant, you did. Your statement was that teachers are paid by the government. It's not clear, but I presume that by that you mean the federal government. I submit that the responsibility of teacher pay is not the function of federal government, but rather the function of the local government.

McDonalds, incidentally, does not pay their employees with my money. MickeyD's employees are paid by the company, which gets their money from their customers. This may or may not be me as I have a choice to patronize them or not. Not the case with the school teacher pay. Like it or not, the $5K or so that I pay in property taxes, which largely funds education in my county, is not a choice. It is also my option to choose to buy, sell, or ignore, MD stock. Not so with government. I don't pay my property taxes, I lose my house.

TheDemSocialist · Jun 21, 2012

No one except to the state departments and department of education.

jimbo · Jun 21, 2012

TheDemSocialist said:
No one except to the state departments and department of education.

Are you addressing me? If so, please be more specific. I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

TheDemSocialist · Jun 21, 2012

TheDemSocialist said:
No one except to the state departments and department of education.

Im addressing the question in the OP

teamosil · Jun 21, 2012

American said:
What's with you man? Did you not just read my post about not making the evaluations public? But that doesn't fit your template about conservatives, so you go on stubborn as usual with your talking point.

Fair enough. Not all righties.

teamosil · Jun 21, 2012

NameGoesHere said:
I'm not a righty but my public schooling was a joke. I realized just how bad it was when I went to college. And I was on the honor role in high school!

As a parent paying taxes I should be able to know if the school I want to send my son to is filled with sh1tty teachers.

I mean, I guess I'd like to know if the lady who cuts my hair or the guy driving the bus I'm on or the person who installed the seat belts when they made my car are bad at their jobs too. But you need to balance that against people's need for privacy and the ability of the evaluators to give honest evaluations. Teaching is a job like any other. People that go into that profession have no less rights than other people do. And realistically, all it would mean is that no principals would give anybody bad reviews anymore because they wouldn't want the headache of hyperactive parents harassing them all the time because they want their kid moved from the "good" teacher to the "excellent" teacher's class.

Gipper · Jun 21, 2012

teamosil said:
I mean, I guess I'd like to know if the lady who cuts my hair or the guy driving the bus I'm on or the person who installed the seat belts when they made my car are bad at their jobs too. But you need to balance that against people's need for privacy and the ability of the evaluators to give honest evaluations.

So you're against consumer advocacy groups too?

Obviously with a manufacturing worker it's not applicable, but if I'm buying a product, hiring a professional to do work, etc. I'd like to be able to go online and see what others think about him. Do you know how many products I would've bought from commercials if I wasn't able to do research and find out that the vast majority of people who did buy it feel ripped off?

jamesrage · Jun 21, 2012

ttwtt78640 said:
I would not go that far into public "micro manangement" and violate the privacy of the people that work for us. I trust the gov't to manage its own day to day details, if the overall results are OK, if not, then changes AT THE TOP top are in order - let the new top folks take charge of the details. I would agree that the public be able to see how many, at what position description and at what pay rate each public employee is being used for, but their names, resumes and personnel files are not any public business, IMHO.

It is not a violation of privacy for employers to look at their employees performance evaluations.

teamosil · Jun 21, 2012

Gipper said:
So you're against consumer advocacy groups too?

Obviously with a manufacturing worker it's not applicable, but if I'm buying a product, hiring a professional to do work, etc. I'd like to be able to go online and see what others think about him. Do you know how many products I would've bought from commercials if I wasn't able to do research and find out that the vast majority of people who did buy it feel ripped off?

Getting a report about the quality of some product doesn't have remotely the same implications as people's individual performance reviews being made public. Nobody's privacy is being violated by consumer reports.

Besides, just think of how it would play out. First, principals would never give bad reviews, so it would be even harder than it is now to get rid of bad teachers. Second, lots of times schools will try to put the best teachers with the toughest kids. But with reports you'd have the most active parents, who most likely have the best students as kids more often than not, constantly pushing for their kid to get in the class of the teacher who got the better review. So you'd end up with the kids that need a good teacher the most stuck with the worst teacher. Third, teaching is already a crappy, unrewarding, hard, draining, job. Why are conservatives always looking for ways to make it worse? Would you want the world to see your performance review every year?

jamesrage · Jun 21, 2012

Redress said:
This is simply false. School teachers are paid by the government, but they are employed by the local school system.

Wrong. Public school teachers are government employees. Government employees are paid a salary by their employers we the tax payers. Government employees are employees of the tax payers.

Boo Radley · Jun 21, 2012

jamesrage said:
Wrong. Public school teachers are government employees. Government employees are paid a salary by their employers we the tax payers. Government employees are employees of the tax payers.

At a local business I actually work for the customers, as my money does come from the business profit we make. However, customers don't get to see my performance reviews. Oddly CP is quite right about this, opening them up would likely lead to lawsuits where we don't need nor should have lawsuits.

cpwill · Jun 21, 2012

jamesrage said:
That is simply false.Public school teachers are employees of the tax payer, much like police, firefighters, politicians and etc are employees of the tax payer. McDonalds is a privately owned company,employees of McDonalds are employees of a privately own company. Public school teachers do not work for a private company,teachers work for us the tax payer to educate our kids.If you were talking about a private school then you would have a point.

Interesting.

So I should be able to purchase a piece of stock and then insist that McDonalds turn over to me all of it's internal reviews of middle managers? What is to keep me from doing this in order to burden them in order to help my own competing burger joint?

You make Teacher Fitreps publicly available, the amount of time, energy, and cost that schools will spend on bureaucratic and legal nonsense will skyrocket. Those of us concerned at the current cost of governance might take pause before we take steps that would significantly increase it. At the same time, in order to avoid legal hassles and public embarrassment, administrators will begin fluffing fitreps. There will be No Such Thing as a Bad Teacher (on paper), which means that you will be making it harder for administrators to fire them, as there will be no paperwork trail. Your proposed solution is more likely to achieve the opposite of your desired effects.

cpwill · Jun 21, 2012

jamesrage said:
Wrong. Public school teachers are government employees. Government employees are paid a salary by their employers we the tax payers. Government employees are employees of the tax payers.

If we wish to do this, then as a body politic and the sovereign of this nation, we certainly do have the right to vote to do so. Government employees are Public Servants - they are servants of the public, they serve the public, they serve at the pleasure of the public, they are ultimately indeed responsible for the quality of their service to the Public. But we are not a democracy - we are a representative Republic, and with good reason. Having the right to do something does not make it the wisest course of action. I am suspicious that the benefits of this will not outweigh the costs.

Redress · Jun 21, 2012

Hey cp, just so you know...a little bleach and lye will make you feel clean again after giving me the thanks in this thread.

Well, actually it will take a whole lot.

cpwill · Jun 21, 2012

Redress said:
Hey cp, just so you know...a little bleach and lye will make you feel clean again after giving me the thanks in this thread.

Well, actually it will take a whole lot.

:lamo

:lol: Consider this your broken-clock moment.

You won't get another until you finally break down and admit that you were wrong to oppose the glorious rise of Ronald Reagan Incarnate The Honorable Mr President Rubio Long May He Reign in 2024. :mrgreen:

Redress · Jun 21, 2012

cpwill said:
:lol: Consider this your broken-clock moment. You won't get another until you finally break down and admit that you were wrong to oppose the glorious rise of Ronald Reagan Incarnate The Honorable Mr President Rubio Long May He Reign in 2024. :mrgreen:

I will let you in on a little secret: I kninda in a way like Rubio. I hate his policies and politics, but I think I would enjoy talking with him.

Who should PUBLIC tax payer funded school teacher evaluations be released to?

Who should PUBLIC tax payer funded school teacher evaluations be released to?

Anyone regardless where they live can get evaluations just by requesting them.

Anyone who lives in school district can get evaluations just by requesting them.

Anybody living school district. But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

Anyone regardless where they live.But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

Parents regardless where they live can get evaluations just by requesting them.

Parents who live in school district can get evaluations just by requesting them.

Parents living in school district. But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

Parents regardless where they live.But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations

Public tax payer funded teachers should not have their evaluations released to anyone

other/I do not know.

Trump Grump Whisperer

Sometimes wrong

Liberal Fascist For Life!

Liberal Fascist For Life!

Gradualist

Gradualist

Liberal Fascist For Life!

Liberal Fascist For Life!