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Who should PUBLIC tax payer funded school teacher evaluations be released to?

Who should PUBLIC tax payer funded school teacher evaluations be released to?

  • Anyone regardless where they live can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • Anyone who lives in school district can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Anybody living school district. But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Anyone regardless where they live.But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Parents regardless where they live can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Parents who live in school district can get evaluations just by requesting them.

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Parents living in school district. But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations.

    Votes: 2 8.0%

  • Parents regardless where they live.But has to schedule an appointment get evaluations

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Public tax payer funded teachers should not have their evaluations released to anyone

    Votes: 8 32.0%

  • other/I do not know.

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • Total voters
    25
Phys251 said:
Explain...
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you argued that we are attracting the under and mediocre performers into education. when i point out that education has alot of under or mediocre performers... :)
 
Phys251 said:
Suggestion: Check out post #65.
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Yeah - I read that thought process of yours and didn't even want to take the time to respond.

It's clear to me that you don't get the concept of 'wanting to be a teacher' - many teachers aim for it from the start or come back around to it after they've pursued other paths in life for a while.

Haven't you ever had a conversation with your professors or teachers about why or when they began to teach?

Most teachers I've talked to say they believed they could make a positive difference in the lives of their students and had an already noted ability to handle the behavior and other issues that come along with it - and believe it's worth the struggle.

Teachers who have been in it for a very long time tend to get worn out with it - these are the ones who develop issues.

But seeing as how most had an advanced degree in one field or another before pursuing the path to teaching anyway they still have something significant to fall back on.
 
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cpwill said:
you argued that we are attracting the under and mediocre performers into education. when i point out that education has alot of under or mediocre performers... :)
Click to expand...

Yet again, you single out one specific issue AND claim that you have the tools to properly analyze that issue.

You cannot even begin to proceed with your position until you can defend both of these problems.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Yeah - I read that thought process of yours and didn't even want to take the time to respond.

It's clear to me that you don't get the concept of 'wanting to be a teacher' - many teachers aim for it from the start or come back around to it after they've pursued other paths in life for a while.

Haven't you ever had a conversation with your professors or teachers about why or when they began to teach?

Most teachers I've talked to say they believed they could make a positive difference in the lives of their students and had an already noted ability to handle the behavior and other issues that come along with it - and believe it's worth the struggle.

Teachers who have been in it for a very long time tend to get worn out with it - these are the ones who develop issues.

But seeing as how most had an advanced degree in one field or another before pursuing the path to teaching anyway they still have something significant to fall back on.
Click to expand...

Wow. Okay, where do I even begin...

First of all, where did you get your information about why people want to be teachers? Have you been a full-time education student spending multiple years around the same teaching students? Have you worked with teachers day in and day own, getting to know some of their stories intimately well? I have. You know why? Because I am a former teacher. You want know why I'm "former" and not "current"? Post #65, Spiker. Post #65. You and I are not going to be able to have a rational discussion about this issue until you digest that post. Because many, many, many teachers, including more than one that I PERSONALLY KNOW, have had a virtually identical thought process about their careers. And you know what their final conclusion was? To hell with this. To hell with this school system who won't support me, to hell with these parents who berate me for just doing my job, to hell with the disruptive students that know they won't be disciplined, to hell with a society that makes all these problems out to be my fault. Trading in that for a dream job that has these things called "respect" and "excellent pay"? Why wouldn't we! And you wonder why schools have a problem keeping "good" teachers...

Another thing. That whole "make a difference in kids' lives" reason for teaching. Yep, been there done that. It's a great idea--until you find out just how hard that is to inherently do. But it gets worse--much worse. Teachers have to spend the overwhelming majority of their out-of-class time planning for lessons, grading papers, and dealing with parents, to name a few. And that's on top of the classroom conditions, where even if every single one of the students choose to behave well--which almost never happens in schools in impoverished neighborhoods--it's an incredibly stressful job where you are literally being closely watched every second. That kind of effort takes a monumental level of support. And you know what? A dire lack of that support is consistently cited as one of the top reasons for teacher turnover. Teachers feel taken for granted and basically hung out to dry. Anyone who flatly denies this (not you but some people in society) is an idiot.

Until you can choose to understand all this, and what I outlined in post #65, you will not have a CLUE why I am talking the way I am.
 
Phys251 said:
Wow. Okay, where do I even begin...

First of all, where did you get your information about why people want to be teachers? Have you been a full-time education student spending multiple years around the same teaching students? Have you worked with teachers day in and day own, getting to know some of their stories intimately well? I have. You know why? Because I am a former teacher. You want know why I'm "former" and not "current"? Post #65, Spiker. Post #65. You and I are not going to be able to have a rational discussion about this issue until you digest that post. Because many, many, many teachers, including more than one that I PERSONALLY KNOW, have had a virtually identical thought process about their careers. And you know what their final conclusion was? To hell with this. To hell with this school system who won't support me, to hell with these parents who berate me for just doing my job, to hell with the disruptive students that know they won't be disciplined, to hell with a society that makes all these problems out to be my fault. Trading in that for a dream job that has these things called "respect" and "excellent pay"? Why wouldn't we! And you wonder why schools have a problem keeping "good" teachers...

Another thing. That whole "make a difference in kids' lives" reason for teaching. Yep, been there done that. It's a great idea--until you find out just how hard that is to inherently do. But it gets worse--much worse. Teachers have to spend the overwhelming majority of their out-of-class time planning for lessons, grading papers, and dealing with parents, to name a few. And that's on top of the classroom conditions, where even if every single one of the students choose to behave well--which almost never happens in schools in impoverished neighborhoods--it's an incredibly stressful job where you are literally being closely watched every second. That kind of effort takes a monumental level of support. And you know what? A dire lack of that support is consistently cited as one of the top reasons for teacher turnover. Teachers feel taken for granted and basically hung out to dry. Anyone who flatly denies this (not you but some people in society) is an idiot.

Until you can choose to understand all this, and what I outlined in post #65, you will not have a CLUE why I am talking the way I am.
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So then why'd you start that post with 'your freshman year in college' . . . and present that scenario as if they're at a fork in the road and making decisions. If you were talking about reasons why teachers quit then why didn't you just talk about it?

Maybe it's the school district I'm in - or my state - who knows . . . but what you detailed isn't at all what my friends have to say about their decision to pursue a path as a teacher at all. It wasn't their 'alternative' choice to anything - maybe for a few it could be. But not a single teacher I know has those issues.

Sounds like you're looking back - and your friends are looking back - which is far different than how you claim they're suppose to be looking forward.

So - why did YOU choose to become a teacher? Don't tell me it's because your career as a mathetmatician didn't pan out :roll:
 
Phys251 said:
Yet again, you single out one specific issue AND claim that you have the tools to properly analyze that issue.

You cannot even begin to proceed with your position until you can defend both of these problems.
Click to expand...

:shrug: i've described several times how our education majors are designed around the assumption of mediocre students - how our education masters programs are ridiculously easy, and how unfortunately our pay system is designed to reward seniority rather than quality and designed to attract risk-aversion rather than a desire to perform.

It's far from the "only" issue in education. But it is a problem, and it's one that we should start fixing by tying compensation to achievement.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
So then why'd you start that post with 'your freshman year in college' . . . and present that scenario as if they're at a fork in the road and making decisions. If you were talking about reasons why teachers quit then why didn't you just talk about it?

Maybe it's the school district I'm in - or my state - who knows . . . but what you detailed isn't at all what my friends have to say about their decision to pursue a path as a teacher at all. It wasn't their 'alternative' choice to anything - maybe for a few it could be. But not a single teacher I know has those issues.

Sounds like you're looking back - and your friends are looking back - which is far different than how you claim they're suppose to be looking forward.

So - why did YOU choose to become a teacher? Don't tell me it's because your career as a mathetmatician didn't pan out :roll:
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Okay, so you're gonna try to put this all on me now? Way to fight fair. *slow clap* And way to dodge practically every point I have thrown at you.

For your information, my decision to go into education was a choice. I easily had the grades to pursue a career in higher-level math. Which, coincidentally, I am doing right now. I got sick and tired of dealing with people like you and, as a reward for it, being paid a lot less than some entry-level math and engineering jobs. But judging by your flippant post, you STILL haven't digested post #65 yet, which pretty much explains all of this.

And since you want to make this all about personal experiences, what are YOUR credentials? How much classroom experience do YOU have? How much time served as a teacher, parapro, or classroom assistant do YOU have?
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: i've described several times how our education majors are designed around the assumption of mediocre students - how our education masters programs are ridiculously easy, and how unfortunately our pay system is designed to reward seniority rather than quality and designed to attract risk-aversion rather than a desire to perform.

It's far from the "only" issue in education. But it is a problem, and it's one that we should start fixing by tying compensation to achievement.
Click to expand...

The thing is, cpwill, one doesn't need to know integral calculus to effectively teach middle school math. But one does have to have an ENORMOUS amount of patience, understanding, and political savvy (yes, teachers need that) that someone working at a 9-to-5 desk job would typically only need in short bursts. Sitting in a college classroom, regardless of content delivered, simply cannot teach that.

I think we may be in agreement that education schools need to be overhauled. The only real question is how.
 
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