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Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 21.2%

  • No

    Votes: 26 78.8%
  • Total voters
    33
M

marcus903

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
123
Reaction score
16
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Do you think students should be penalized for truancy/tardiness?

Here's what I think?

In my opinion, students should not be penalized for truancy/tardiness. Why? Here's my below explanation:

By expelling students for truancy, you are giving them permission for missing school. In my district, schools are NOT allowed to suspend/expel a student for being truant or tardy. They have a legitimate reason not to do this:

Expulsions because of truancy does NOT fix the issue and should not be used because it actually encourages students to miss school. Basically, you're telling students that if you want to be exempted from having to go to school for at least two semesters, you must NOT go to school. This type of expulsions also warrants attendance issues because of the results of the expulsion.

In Milwaukee, if a child is found on the streets, they are not arrested nor face criminal charges. Instead, they are taken to a truancy center found in a Boys & Girls Club and probably counseled on the importance of staying in school. Parents are not sent directly to jail for their child missing school, but is instead fined for not correcting the truancy problem.

Milwaukee Public Schools understands the results of having expulsions because of truancy and does not allow students to be expelled for habitual truancy, doesn't matter how serious it is. In your opinion, should students be penalized (through the use of expulsions/suspensions) for truancy
 
The purpose of truancy laws is to force students to stay in school.

The punishment for violating truancy laws is to force students to stay away from the school.

The fact that this particular form of pig****ing stupidity is common in the public school system is one more reason my children will never see the inside of one unless I'm threatening them with what will happen if they neglect their studies.
 
Nope, do what most college professors do. Miss x number of days and you fail and have to retake the course (or in this case, grade).
 
I vote no. It gives the kid what he or she wants. Its basically rewarding the kid for skipping school. What they should do is some other form of punishment, maybe Juvenile hall, cominuty service or fining and or jailing the parent.
 
Republic Now! said:
Nope, do what most college professors do. Miss x number of days and you fail and have to retake the course (or in this case, grade).
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What he said
 
When I was the union building rep at my high school for over twenty years, the Union Committee and I undertook what became a crusade. We discovered that the average student in our high school was absent some 32 times a semester. That is not a school year but rather just half of it. That is because the school district had no attendance policy.

So we lobbied and fought and pushed and shoved and finally after a long period of this, the principal relented and agreed to a firm attendance policy in which any student absent more than 15 times would be given a failing grade in the class. Again, that is not 15 times in an academic year but 15 times in one semester normally constituting between 90 and 95 days.

So we publicized this to the high heavens in the fall semester and everybody abided by it. And miracle of miracles, attendance improved across the board. But we still had a good one-quarter of the school who exceeded the number and they were given the automatic failing grade. And within days, the principal revoked the principal by administrative fiat and ordered the staff to recalculate the grades as if no policy had been in effect.
 
haymarket said:
When I was the union building rep at my high school for over twenty years, the Union Committee and I undertook what became a crusade. We discovered that the average student in our high school was absent some 32 times a semester. That is not a school year but rather just half of it. That is because the school district had no attendance policy.

So we lobbied and fought and pushed and shoved and finally after a long period of this, the principal relented and agreed to a firm attendance policy in which any student absent more than 15 times would be given a failing grade in the class. Again, that is not 15 times in an academic year but 15 times in one semester normally constituting between 90 and 95 days.

So we publicized this to the high heavens in the fall semester and everybody abided by it. And miracle of miracles, attendance improved across the board. But we still had a good one-quarter of the school who exceeded the number and they were given the automatic failing grade. And within days, the principal revoked the principal by administrative fiat and ordered the staff to recalculate the grades as if no policy had been in effect.
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I think your approach is the best solution. Although it's a shame that the principal revoked it.
 
digsbe said:
I think your approach is the best solution. Although it's a shame that the principal revoked it.
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Thank you. They were simply not willing to absorb some short term pain for a long term gain.
 
No, it's absolutely ridiculous. You punish kids who don't come to school by not letting them come to school? What kind of retarded **** is that? Just fail them if they miss a certain number of days.
 
No, education should be improved to make it worthwhile to attend in the first place, and bullies and similar malcontents removed so people hate it less. Having skipped 30+ days each of 10th-12th grade, and it not affecting my grades in the least, I'm pretty sure the absence itself wasn't the problem. In contrast, I rarely missed a lecture in college, even though attendance was never taken, because they were both fascinating and necessary to attend to not fail the tests. What's needed to make K-12 less of a joke is competent, better paid teachers and less catering to the bottom that slows the rest of the class down. Also removing study hall, since no one ever studies.
 
The use of IN SCHOOL detention is the best option for many minor school rule infractions, but that only works for tardiness, obviously you can not detain one that is not even present. Allowing random attendence, is INSANE. Truancy (habitual unexcused absense) is a crime in most states, and should be handled as such, using juvenile arrest and reform school. That leaves the middle ground of skippng days here and there, to force more time away from school as punishment for missing time from school, makes ZERO sense, only the gov't could even dream up such nonsense. If the absense is "unexcused" then simply record it, if enough of them accumulate to constitute truancy, then make an arrest. Suspension and expulsion (forced truancy?) should be reserved for the more serious (or repeated minor) behavioral problems while on school grounds, and used a lot more than they are now. Teachers are forced to spend far too much of their time dealing with the 2% that act like morons, and that detracts from educating the 98% that may otherwise learn more.
 
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Failing them if they reach a certain amount of days has some problems, because it will encourage high school drop outs. It is better to have limits.

If you miss 10 days, then your grade gets multiplied by 0.9
If you miss 20 days, then your grade gets multiplied by 0.8
If you miss 30 days, you will fail.

Most students will avoid hitting the first penalty, but if they do they won't fail and be discouraged.
 
The problem with this idea of failing students who don't come to school is that they basically have to repeat a year - do that enough and we'll have 20 y/o high school juniors, or something.


Unless there is some kind of mandatory remedial schooling, whether during the school year so they can graduate to the next grade, or during the summer so they can graduate to the next grade before the next school year starts, some kind of replacement is necessary.

Problem with THAT is, how the hell do you enforce it?
 
The Mark said:
The problem with this idea of failing students who don't come to school is that they basically have to repeat a year - do that enough and we'll have 20 y/o high school juniors, or something.
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I just don't see the problem with that. At age16 if they still can't get their asses to school on time, they can drop out.

Unless there is some kind of mandatory remedial schooling, whether during the school year so they can graduate to the next grade, or during the summer so they can graduate to the next grade before the next school year starts, some kind of replacement is necessary.
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Why?
 
Republic Now! said:
I just don't see the problem with that. At age16 if they still can't get their asses to school on time, they can drop out.



Why?
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I suppose I'm looking at this from the perspective of "if less than 99% of students graduate with an at least adequate education, then the education system is a failure"...

And I'm thinking that if they don't come to school on some days, they need to make up that time either during or after (read: summer classes) the school year, so that they are prepared for the next grade come next semester...

But I tend to be a tad idealistic when it comes to how I want education to be, so meh...
 
The Mark said:
I suppose I'm looking at this from the perspective of "if less than 99% of students graduate with an at least adequate education, then the education system is a failure"...

And I'm thinking that if they don't come to school on some days, they need to make up that time either during or after (read: summer classes) the school year, so that they are prepared for the next grade come next semester...

But I tend to be a tad idealistic when it comes to how I want education to be, so meh...
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I'm more of quality over quantity guy myself. Personally I think our system just leads a bunch of unprepared children into the real world where they will be forced into responsibility they were not adequately prepared for. Sometimes we gotta accept responsibility in ways that cannot be redeemed, but they serve as a reminder to us later that you can't always rely on the system to hold your hand. If a kid has to wait until the age 20 to graduate, hopefully at 20 they had learned responsibility so when they go out into the real world, they'll be ready. Same with the kid who dropped out and eventually had to find a job or go get a GED. I myself didn't learn responsibility until my second year of college when I decided I'd rather push through the tough times than be a failure.
 
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Republic Now! said:
I'm more of quality over quantity guy myself. Personally I think our system just leads a bunch of unprepared children into the real world where they will be forced into responsibility they were not adequately prepared for. Sometimes we gotta accept responsibility in ways that cannot be redeemed, but they serve as a reminder to us later that you can't always rely on the system to hold your hand. If a kid has to wait until the age 20 to graduate, hopefully at 20 they had learned responsibility so when they go out into the real world, they'll be ready. Same with the kid who dropped out and eventually had to find a job or go get a GED. I myself didn't learn responsibility until my second year of college when I decided I'd rather push through the tough times than be a failure.
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In a way, I agree with you - one of the problems I see in our educational system is that it tends to try and apply the same teaching process to students who in many cases, due to their individual quirks, need different teaching processes to learn optimally.

But I think the responsibility bit is a combo of parenting and environment, not to mention genes in the sense that they effect the growth/development of the child…some parents do a better job than others at instilling it in their children…

And in the end, the decision is up to the individual child/adult person...
 
The Mark said:
And in the end, the decision is up to the individual child/adult person...
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You're absolutely correct that it is the decision of the individual to embrace responsibility. However, certain environments encourage it while others do not. It's difficult for a child to accept responsibility because it hits them in a two pronged way. Both they have to accept the negatives of the world and the added discipline required to function in said world. Such a change is not something most children will easily or willingly go into, regardless of the benefit to them long term.
 
Expelled or suspended? Certainly not. They're skipping school and all that they want to do is suspend or expell them? Seems awfully counter productive to me. If anything they should be required to spend 2 days extra at the end of the school year for each un-excused absense that they have.
 
I think that the punishment for skipping school intentionally should be mandatory classes to make up the missed time.
 
The Mark said:
Same way the jailtime bit works, probably.
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I dont agree with her going to jail, she was an honor student, taking advanced courses, while juggling 2 jobs. If thats not responsibility I dont know what is. I dont agree with compulsory education anyway, I had guys skipping classes to go trawling, dont see whays wrong with that. I do agree that children should be educated to some extent, our current system is lacking in quality.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Expelled or suspended? Certainly not. They're skipping school and all that they want to do is suspend or expell them? Seems awfully counter productive to me. If anything they should be required to spend 2 days extra at the end of the school year for each un-excused absense that they have.
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That sounds all good but wouldn't someone who skips school just skip those days too? I think jail would be a better solution.Jail or juvenile hall would be a better solution since in that situation they would have no choice.
 
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