• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 21.2%

  • No

    Votes: 26 78.8%
  • Total voters
    33
Lokiate said:
Because that's not learned behavior...
Click to expand...

Sure it is. They are learning how to act at home, and once they get in school, nobody has the authority to correct ill-behaved kids in any meaningful way.
 
lizzie said:
Actually, what I see is that the parents and the children both deny any problem on their own parts, and the teachers/ school admin are blamed. It's really quite a joke, as the teachers have no power to make the kids behave, and the only people who do have legal authority are abdicating their responsibility.
Click to expand...

Like I said...Dr. Phil types. ;)
 
Dittohead not! said:
When the child does wrong, and the parent does nothing, that's when the parents are at fault. It's up to the parents to see to it that the child goes to school and that he does what he needs to to get an education. If the parents abrogate their responsibility, they yes, absolutely, they should be held accountable.
Click to expand...

And what if the parent tries to make that kid attend? It seems to me that you are just assuming that parents have full control of their kids in every aspect of their life. Now I don't know about you but my parents certainly did not fully control me...even though they tried like hell to do so. So much so that I never got to go out for even a school dance until I was 17...much less anywhere else.
 
Dittohead not! said:
When the child does wrong, and the parent does nothing, that's when the parents are at fault. It's up to the parents to see to it that the child goes to school and that he does what he needs to to get an education. If the parents abrogate their responsibility, they yes, absolutely, they should be held accountable.
Click to expand...
And then there are cases where because of economic circumstances the child is left to get to school on their own. We hold the parent accountable even when they're working 1.5 jobs to make ends meet? We need to make up our minds as well and decide if shelling out the welfare money is more important then getting the child educated or vice versa because in many cases society can't have both.
 
Kal'Stang said:
And what if the parent tries to make that kid attend? It seems to me that you are just assuming that parents have full control of their kids in every aspect of their life. Now I don't know about you but my parents certainly did not fully control me...even though they tried like hell to do so. So much so that I never got to go out for even a school dance until I was 17...much less anywhere else.
Click to expand...

And had you become an habitual truant, what would your parents have done?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Side note: I actually kind of find it funny how so many people claim that you shouldn't punish the child for the wrongs of the parent and yet if the child does wrong and knows they did wrong it is perfectly acceptable to just punish the parent.
Click to expand...
"lol" away then.
 
Kal'Stang said:
And what if the parent tries to make that kid attend? It seems to me that you are just assuming that parents have full control of their kids in every aspect of their life. Now I don't know about you but my parents certainly did not fully control me...even though they tried like hell to do so. So much so that I never got to go out for even a school dance until I was 17...much less anywhere else.
Click to expand...
Such a child will be sent a fine they get to pay off with an after-school job, and/or hours of community service which will cut into their social time. Life will just keep getting harder and harder for that child the more and more they keep ****ing up.

Go ahead, little teen, and not pay that fine or not show up for community service and see what happens to you next. Your parent won't have to worry about trying to control you while you're sitting in a juvenile detention center attending forced GED classes and mandatory work-release program.
 
Last edited:
Dittohead not! said:
And had you become an habitual truant, what would your parents have done?
Click to expand...

Grounded me and quite possibly spanked me. And I don't mean swats either. I mean full on hand on bare bottom spankings. Sometimes with belts. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't repeat what I did before. Indeed there were many times that they were at their wits ends in getting me to comply with something or other despite repeated groundings and spankings, standing in corners, taking away privledges/toys.

When I was about 6 years old I got into the habit of stealing things from stores thanks to my older siblings. My folks spanked me and put me in a corner for an hour the first time I got caught. The second time they even tied my hands behind my back while I was sitting at the corner. I didn't stop stealing until after I had finally gone to jail for it at 18. So it definitately wasn't for my parents lack of trying.

EDIT PS: Oddly I only skipped school a total of 2 days my entire school career. Don't really know why to be honest. :shrug: perhaps I just didn't think about doing it. :shrug:
 
Last edited:
Jerry said:
Such a child will be sent a fine they get to pay off with an after-school job, and/or hours of community service which will cut into their social time. Life will just keep getting harder and harder for that child the more and more they keep ****ing up.

Go ahead, little teen, and not pay that fine or not show up for community service and see what happens to you next. Your parent won't have to worry about trying to control you while you're sitting in a juvenile detention center attending forced GED classes and mandatory work-release program.
Click to expand...

The community service might work for some. Not all. My folks moved around alot so I got to the point where I was a loner. (and even today I don't make friends easily). So I would have relished being away from people doing community work. (I actually liked working as a kid BECAUSE it kept me away from people most of the time)
 
Kal'Stang said:
The community service might work for some. Not all.
Click to expand...

There are no easy-button cure-alls in life, for anything. Stop looking for them.

Kal'Stang said:
My folks moved around alot so I got to the point where I was a loner. (and even today I don't make friends easily). So I would have relished being away from people doing community work. (I actually liked working as a kid BECAUSE it kept me away from people most of the time)
Click to expand...

Well if we're exchanging subjective personal stories: My X has been trying to home-school my sons for a couple years now. As a result of her unstable lifestyle they're both now a grade behind. I would love for her to be held accountable and put in jail over it.
 
Jerry said:
There are no easy-button cure-alls in life, for anything. Stop looking for them.
Click to expand...

Never said there was or that I was looking for such. There are pro's and con's to everything. I was just listing a con thats all.

Jerry said:
Well if we're exchanging subjective personal stories: My X has been trying to home-school my sons for a couple years now. As a result of her unstable lifestyle they're both now a grade behind. I would love for her to be held accountable and put in jail over it.
Click to expand...

And in this particular case going by just what you've said I would agree with you that the parent needs to be held accountable.

My objection wasn't that we shouldn't punish the parents for their failures. Just that it seems like everyone wants to punish JUST the parent and NOT the kids.
 
Jerry said:
If the child is under 16: The custodial parent should be punished with fines and/or community service.

If the child is over 16: The custodial parent and child together should be punished with fines and community service.

If the child has been reported as a runaway: The child alone should be punished with a sentence to juvenile hall followed by a half-way house if they don't return home.

Adults should have to show proof of HS diploma or GED in order to receive any form of public assistance. Special considerations are acceptable for adults who can prove they are attending a GED program.
Click to expand...

This is a stupid policy... It seems black and white, it ignores the fact that the student may be successful no matter the days in attendance.... As i already posted, which most failed to read, a student was jailed for missing school. This is despite being an honor roll student with a single parent and juggling 2 jobs, yes i mean the student not the parent.... The problem is people see what they want to in these matters...
 
LibertyBurns said:
This is a stupid policy... It seems black and white, it ignores the fact that the student may be successful no matter the days in attendance.... As i already posted, which most failed to read, a student was jailed for missing school. This is despite being an honor roll student with a single parent and juggling 2 jobs, yes i mean the student not the parent.... The problem is people see what they want to in these matters...
Click to expand...
You can't be an honor student while having truancy problems because attendance is part of making the honor roll.

A truancy policy isn't meant to save the world. There's no way any policy could account for every possible family dynamic. The best we can do is establish the standard.

Go to class or go to jail. The choice is yours.
 
Last edited:
Kal'Stang said:
Side note: I actually kind of find it funny how so many people claim that you shouldn't punish the child for the wrongs of the parent and yet if the child does wrong and knows they did wrong it is perfectly acceptable to just punish the parent.
Click to expand...
If your 16, you can take responsibility to consent to sex, and consent to an abortion...so therefore you can also get your own ass to school if your parent falls through. Go buy a buss pass. Get a bike from the pawn shop. Get a ride from a friend. Call a Taxi. Jesus man this is how you'll get to your job if your car brakes down one day in the adult world.

Teens in these ****ed up homes are at a higher risk of becoming pregnant. How the **** are they going to take care of a newborn if they can't even get to school?
 
Last edited:
Jerry said:
You can't be an honor student while having truancy problems because attendance is part of making the honor roll.

A truancy policy isn't meant to save the world. There's no way any policy could account for every possible family dynamic. The best we can do is establish the standard.

Go to class or go to jail. The choice is yours.
Click to expand...

This opinion is FALSE, sorry lol... She was i deed an honor student. So, your opinion, even if a student aces test or grades, its more about time served, not about qualuty? If this was the case then students that never missed a day should be honor students, not ones that actally excel in academics... You should not be leaning conservative lol...

Edit:

I see the typos, but thats just this I Pad acting stupid
 
Last edited:
LibertyBurns said:
This opinion is FALSE, sorry lol...
Click to expand...

See that's why it seems to you that people aren't reading your posts.

Here, let me give you an example of how to debate properly outside of the Basement:
LibertyBurns said:
I'm sorry, Jerry, but while your schools may have linked attendance to honor roll, Willis Independent School District does not. Please see the source below:
Page 7.
HONOR ROLL
Students who reach honor roll status will be recognized in the academic pep-rallies.

A Honor Roll: All As for each grading period and the entire year.
A/B Honor Roll: All As and Bs for each grading period.

2010-11
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
To which I would reply:
Thank you for that clarification. However, I maintain that a truancy policy is incapable of accounting for every possible family dynamic and needs to merely set the standard. Let the judges account for individual circumstances, like the judge did in your link.
 
Last edited:
haymarket said:
The principal repealed the policy for one reason and one reason only: it raised the level of failures and brought her under the attention of her superiors in administration.

If the teachers had refused to go along with this, we would have been in violation of our contract and could be sanctioned for it.

Some people carp that teacher unions only care about money in teachers pockets. This is a clear example where we were trying to get policy changes for the good of students and their education but were stopped by administration.
Click to expand...
I think few people really think teachers only care about teachers profits. Remember that this was not an union action. It was you trying to change local policies for one school.

However, I can understand very well why the principal repealed the policy. Your policy failed. 1/3 of the students failed, and that is totally unacceptable. And many of these students are not going to learn their lesson. They are going to drop out, or do the same next year. The problem with your policy is this. If you breach the 15 day limit, then there is no point in attending school.

The aim was legitimate, but next time you need to think about the unintended consequences of your policies.
 
Heres my experience with Truancy, I was head of security for a large Alternative HS in NJ after retiring. The school was full of kids that had failed or been tossed out of regular HS for everything from Atrocious assaults...robbery, drugs and truancy...the whole gamut of screwed up.
The policy of the Alternative School was you miss 35 days in a year you fail....NO ONE FAILED, only the kids that didnt come at all for months.
That is not a truancy policy. I agree that suspending kids for truancy doesnt work...but what does...NOTHING ...the only weapon you have is eventual expulsion and that will only work if they care.\
Public education has to stop worrying about individual child acheivements or small groups..that have to let some just GO, fail them throw them out on their ear and look at the big goal..>EDUCATING THE MOST KIDS YOU CAN. You cant save them all and were spending too much money and time on the ones that are unsalvageable. Its not fair to all the good kids to keep the dirtbag kids around far longer than you should with them disrupting everything.
Unfortunately in some states each student has a dollar value...for every student that they lose the school loses 6,000 to 10,000 that has got to stop too.
Some schools refuse to hold kids back and move forward morons that cant possibly do the work at that level...they do that to keep thier Success Statistics up...its WRONG this whole system of we need to lie and keep dirtbag kids in schools for funding and the appearance of success SUCKS...We need to get back to keeping johnny back and if johnny continues to be a little rectum then for the good of all the other kids Little Johnny gets thrown out on his arse
 
Last edited:
lpast said:
Heres my experience with Truancy, I was head of security for a large Alternative HS in NJ after retiring. The school was full of kids that had failed or been tossed out of regular HS for everything from Atrocious assaults...robbery, drugs and truancy...the whole gamut of screwed up.
The policy of the Alternative School was you miss 35 days in a year you fail....NO ONE FAILED, only the kids that didnt come at all for months.
That is not a truancy policy. I agree that suspending kids for truancy doesnt work...but what does...NOTHING ...the only weapon you have is eventual expulsion and that will only work if they care.\
Public education has to stop worrying about individual child acheivements or small groups..that have to let some just GO, fail them throw them out on their ear and look at the big goal..>EDUCATING THE MOST KIDS YOU CAN. You cant save them all and were spending too much money and time on the ones that are unsalvageable. Its not fair to all the good kids to keep the dirtbag kids around far longer than you should with them disrupting everything.
Unfortunately in some states each student has a dollar value...for every student that they lose the school loses 6,000 to 10,000 that has got to stop too.
Some schools refuse to hold kids back and move forward morons that cant possibly do the work at that level...they do that to keep thier Success Statistics up...its WRONG the whole need to have to lie and keep dirtbag kids in schools for funding and the appearance of success SUCKS...We need to get back to keeping johnny back and if johnny continues to be a little rectum then for the good of all the other kids Little Johnny gets thrown out on his arse
Click to expand...
Then it would seem that a truancy policy isn't to correct the student's behavior, but to trim a dead limb off for the sake of the rest of the student body's academic health.
 
Jerry said:
Then it would seem that a truancy policy isn't to correct the student's behavior, but to trim a dead limb off for the sake of the rest of the student body's academic health.
Click to expand...

Look Jerry, I was responsible for having phone calls made to the homes of truant students...nothing works if the kid has the mindset he does not want to come to school and he has less than stellar parents. What do you do ? you cant forcibly drag him to school, you cant suspend him that serves no purpose. Whats left get his parents fined ? arrested ? the only choice is to keep him back in the grade if he miss' X amt of days and eventually expel them....there are no other choices except to just let them do what they want...spend a FORTUNE on them and hand them a diploma so they can work in McDonalds that has to have pictures of hamburgers and soda on the register keys cuz the morons couldnt work a regular register...If anyone comes up with any bright ideas I would like to hear them...that doenst cost half a million a student that is
 
lpast said:
Look Jerry, I was responsible for having phone calls made to the homes of truant students...nothing works if the kid has the mindset he does not want to come to school and he has less than stellar parents. What do you do ? you cant forcibly drag him to school, you cant suspend him that serves no purpose. Whats left get his parents fined ? arrested ? the only choice is to keep him back in the grade if he miss' X amt of days and eventually expel them....there are no other choices except to just let them do what they want...spend a FORTUNE on them and hand them a diploma so they can work in McDonalds that has to have pictures of hamburgers and soda on the register keys cuz the morons couldnt work a regular register...If anyone comes up with any bright ideas I would like to hear them...that doenst cost half a million a student that is
Click to expand...
In the UK, parents can be fined (and even jailed, in extreme cases) if they allow their children to truant their education - given that alowing truancy is arguably child abuse by neglect, this seems fair enough to me. Home-schooling is allowed, but only if it meets certain standards. If parents are trying to get their child to school but are having difficulties, a social worker can be allocated to their case - and a government-sponered scheme to offer 'good parenting' classes is currently being trialed/launched; at a cost to the taxpayer, but not a huge one per-child.
 
Yes they should be penalized.....

A child's "job" is to get an education. In order to do that they need to be in school. I'm in favor of expelling ANY student who misses a certain number of class days without proper excuse (medical mostly). Obviously they aren't interested in being there, and just like if I failed to show up for my job I would be fired, they should be removed from the system.
 
lpast said:
Look Jerry, I was responsible for having phone calls made to the homes of truant students...nothing works if the kid has the mindset he does not want to come to school and he has less than stellar parents. What do you do ? you cant forcibly drag him to school, you cant suspend him that serves no purpose. Whats left get his parents fined ? arrested ? the only choice is to keep him back in the grade if he miss' X amt of days and eventually expel them....there are no other choices except to just let them do what they want...spend a FORTUNE on them and hand them a diploma so they can work in McDonalds that has to have pictures of hamburgers and soda on the register keys cuz the morons couldnt work a regular register...If anyone comes up with any bright ideas I would like to hear them...that doenst cost half a million a student that is
Click to expand...
Hmm, well, is it possible to convince the public just to not have any truancy policy at all? Big money saver, imo, if these policies don't help anyway. I mean, yeah, tell the kids that they can do what they want. If they miss school and can't pass the class, then they don't get the diploma. Like you said, someone has to work at McDonalds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom