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Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?


  • Total voters
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its the people who try to gain power by pretending to care about the poor and use their plight as an argument for taking more money from others.

Yeah, that is fundamentally your root problem. You can't comprehend that there are good people in the world. You assume that deep down all anybody cares about is themselves. But that isn't reality of course. Everybody who has spent any amount of time in the world is, obviously, well aware that there are many good people out there that are doing their utmost to help those who are in the most need of help. That is just something you feel the need to tell yourself to make yourself feel better about your own moral character.
 
Yeah, that is fundamentally your root problem. You can't comprehend that there are good people in the world. You assume that deep down all anybody cares about is themselves. But that isn't reality of course. Everybody who has spent any amount of time in the world is, obviously, well aware that there are many good people out there that are doing their utmost to help those who are in the most need of help. That is just something you feel the need to tell yourself to make yourself feel better about your own moral character.


you really are in no position to be able to say what I comprehend.

You also engage in the classic leftwing fallacy of thinking-voting for more taxes and more big government spending=charity. you also pretend that if people don't buy into your far left big government mantra they aren't "charitable"
 
Yeah, that is fundamentally your root problem. You can't comprehend that there are good people in the world. You assume that deep down all anybody cares about is themselves. But that isn't reality of course. Everybody who has spent any amount of time in the world is, obviously, well aware that there are many good people out there that are doing their utmost to help those who are in the most need of help. That is just something you feel the need to tell yourself to make yourself feel better about your own moral character.
Nobody, and I am sure TD would agree with me here, is condemning anyone who takes it upon themselves to help the poor and less fortunate. The issue is how you go about helping them. If it is with your own time and your own resources, it is an act of virtue. If you steal from others to give alms to the poor you are engaged in vice. The ends do not justify the means.
 
Nobody, and I am sure TD would agree with me here, is condemning anyone who takes it upon themselves to help the poor and less fortunate. The issue is how you go about helping them. If it is with your own time and your own resources, it is an act of virtue. If you steal from others to give alms to the poor you are engaged in vice. The ends do not justify the means.
true, lefty charity often involves taking from others to buy the gratitude of the recipients.

its like the Lord Farquaad in SHREK who says "many of you might die but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make"
 
Nobody, and I am sure TD would agree with me here, is condemning anyone who takes it upon themselves to help the poor and less fortunate. The issue is how you go about helping them. If it is with your own time and your own resources, it is an act of virtue. If you steal from others to give alms to the poor you are engaged in vice. The ends do not justify the means.

The mean old grade school teachers marching into their homes and "stealing" their money so that they can get 50% of the salary they could if they worked for profit and viciously using it to educate your children... Or the thieves that steal your money so they can make $30k/year making sure your house doesn't burn down... Obviously it's ridiculous.

But, even putting that aside, that's only the line the right happens to have picked for this one subset of people who put doing good ahead of making money. They have a line for virtually all of them. When a scientist chooses to make a fraction of what he could in the private sector because he wants to work for the betterment of the world, they are accused of being part of a conspiracy. When a lawyer walks away from a million dollar a year partnership to work for the DOJ for 10% of the money because he believes he will be able to do more good for his fellow man there, he is attacked by the right. The right has attacks worked out for the world health organization, the red cross, amnesty international, the world food programme... Academics that decide that they would rather take a fraction of the salary because they want to work to advance our society's understanding of whatever area they teach in and to help kids, they're part of some kind of socialist conspiracy too. Non-profit unions that fight to improve the wages of working class people are "thugs". The catholic bishops are heroes when they try to oppress women, but as soon as they point out that helping the poor and sick are core Christian values, they're denounced. Everybody that puts doing good ahead of making money ends up on the right's hit list one way or another. It's too big of a pattern to be random.
 
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The mean old grade school teachers marching into their homes and "stealing" their money so that they can get 50% of the salary they could if they worked for profit and viciously using it to educate your children... Or the thieves that steal your money so they can make $30k/year making sure your house doesn't burn down... Obviously it's ridiculous.

But, even putting that aside, that's only the line the right happens to have picked for this one subset of people who put doing good ahead of making money. They have a line for virtually all of them. When a scientist chooses to make a fraction of what he could in the private sector because he wants to work for the betterment of the world, they are accused of being part of a conspiracy. When a lawyer walks away from a million dollar a year partnership to work for the DOJ for 10% of the money because he believes he will be able to do more good for his fellow man there, he is attacked by the right. The right has attacks worked out for the world health organization, the red cross, amnesty international... Academics that decide that they would rather take a fraction of the salary because they want to work to advance our society's understanding of whatever area they teach in and to help kids, they're part of some kind of socialist conspiracy too. Everybody that puts doing good ahead of making money ends up on the right's hit list one way or another. It's too big of a pattern to be random.


I don't know what world you live in, but teachers (at least in Illinois) aren't sacrificing one dime by being teachers. Neither are police. Neither are firefighters. That's why, my friend, there is a waiting list from here to Timbukto for their jobs. Get educated. Or are you a teacher?
 
so many words to say that you want others to pay for what you want
 
I don't know what world you live in, but teachers (at least in Illinois) aren't sacrificing one dime by being teachers. Neither are police. Neither are firefighters. That's why, my friend, there is a waiting list from here to Timbukto for their jobs. Get educated. Or are you a teacher?

In Illinois the average teacher starts at $37k/year and has a master's degree. The median person in the country (it'd be a bit higher in Illinois because of Chicago) who has a master's degree makes $66k/year.
 
In Illinois the average teacher starts at $37k/year and has a master's degree. The median person in the country (it'd be a bit higher in Illinois because of Chicago) who has a master's degree makes $66k/year.

well there is a big difference between those of us who have masters degrees in worthwhile fields versus those who have those NEA required BS MEds
 
well there is a big difference between those of us who have masters degrees in worthwhile fields versus those who have those NEA required BS MEds

You may only consider the most profitable degrees to be "worthwhile", but that's the whole point isn't it? Some people have higher moral standards than you do and consider things other than profit to be worthwhile.
 
You may only consider the most profitable degrees to be "worthwhile", but that's the whole point isn't it? Some people have higher moral standards than you do and consider things other than profit to be worthwhile.

at my kid's school none of the teachers would be "qualified" to teach at a union run public school because they don't have those BS MEd degrees, They have masters and PhD's in real subjects like math and history and english.
 
true, people suing others keep me employed

but I have a few jobs and that is just one

Reminds me of the story how when Mao took over leadership of China the two occupations banned were lawyers and prostitutes.

I think he did a great disservice at lumping the hookers in with the lawyers.
 
at my kid's school none of the teachers would be "qualified" to teach at a union run public school because they don't have those BS MEd degrees, They have masters and PhD's in real subjects like math and history and english.

Anyways, obviously you were unable to come up with a response either specifically for teachers or to the laundry list of other professions that aim to do good. So, again, you've lost. I'm sure everybody is really shocked.
 
Reminds me of the story how when Mao took over leadership of China the two occupations banned were lawyers and prostitutes.

I think he did a great disservice at lumping the hookers in with the lawyers.

YOur messiah and his side kick Obama are lawyers. the main difference is I am actually licensed and competent to try cases. Those two clowns don't have licenses
 
Anyways, obviously you were unable to come up with a response either specifically for teachers or to the laundry list of other professions that aim to do good. So, again, you've lost. I'm sure everybody is really shocked.

I am not the one whining about pay scales.
 
YOur messiah and his side kick Obama are lawyers. the main difference is I am actually licensed and competent to try cases. Those two clowns don't have licenses

I would be willing to concede you possess a license of one kind or another.
 
In Illinois the average teacher starts at $37k/year and has a master's degree. The median person in the country (it'd be a bit higher in Illinois because of Chicago) who has a master's degree makes $66k/year.

Reliable link for that? And, please, not to one that answers the question: "How much do teachers earn?" Here's a link to the actual Illinois database. Scan it. Find me anyone making $37,000 a year. It's listed by name, by the way. And school district. $55K at CPS 4 years ago with a Master's. Now making $64,000. That, of course, is without her summer part-time job with the district. Family Taxpayers Foundation
 
It pays to know ones enemies. I would expect a school teacher to understand property. You do not. I hope you did not harm too many with your views.

You need not answer. I vaguely remember someone saying you were and you did not deny it.

Witch hunt. Get in line.

I understand property. I support property rights.

Unlike right wing libertarians, I DO NOT elevate them above other rights people have.
 
Yes you are. You're whining that people who aim to do good get paid even the measly amounts they do.


wrong again. I support the market determining rates and since teachers are a very uncompetitive field since so many people can do it they are going to make less than those who enter more competitive fields like medicine, law and engineering
 
Reliable link for that? And, please, not to one that answers the question: "How much do teachers earn?" Here's a link to the actual Illinois database. Scan it. Find me anyone making $37,000 a year. It's listed by name, by the way. And school district. $55K at CPS 4 years ago with a Master's. Now making $64,000. That, of course, is without her summer part-time job with the district. Family Taxpayers Foundation

The first district I checked was Astoria CUSD 1. The first seven teachers in the list alphabetically are:

Arnett, Melissa $15,423
Bair, Lindy $27,943
Banwart, Douglas $32,256
Bastien, Garry $29,530
Boggs, Bobette $39,977
Bollinger, Sharenda $26,783
Cheatum, Kathy $30,807

So, out of those, only Bobette Boggs makes more than $37k. Boggs is working full time and has 14 years of experience teaching.
 
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YOu have constantly said the rich's wealth exists only as long as the masses decide to let them keep it

Moderates like OldReliable67 called your position "fascist" on the economics thread when you posted your bit about the rich groveling before the masses to keep what they have

Thank you for clearly showing you cannot substantiate the scurrilous lies you posted about my position on property. You utterly FAILED to do so with anything other than more pompous pontifications.

Get a clue: I could not care less about somebody you admire making their own pompous pontifications about my views. If you and your boy OR67 want to attack my views, at least man up and have the cojones to quote me.
 
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