• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    Votes: 40 62.5%

  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    Votes: 14 21.9%

  • It depends on November.

    Votes: 10 15.6%
  • Total voters
    64
teamosil said:
I didn't say anything about ripping anybody off. Obviously you understand that rich people get their money from society, so I'm not really sure what we're debating here.
Click to expand...

YOu confuse GIVEN with EARNING. Rafa Nadal is not GIVEN prize money-he WINS It. Bill Gates is not GIVEN wealth he earned it. I love the loser class and those who make excuses for it pretending that somehow the rich are given something by either the government or society.
 
TurtleDude said:
YOu confuse GIVEN with EARNING. Rafa Nadal is not GIVEN prize money-he WINS It. Bill Gates is not GIVEN wealth he earned it. I love the loser class and those who make excuses for it pretending that somehow the rich are given something by either the government or society.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't care one way or another if you want to call somebody dialing up their portfolio manager once a month to learn how many millions more they got that month "earning" that money... Certainly seems like a fairly tortured use of the language, but who cares. It's just rhetoric. What I said was that we give hundreds of billions to the rich in tax giveaways, not that they don't earn their money. Giving a person a tax subsidy isn't any different than any other kind of spending really. The only real difference is what you print on the top of the check.
 
teamosil said:
Well, I don't care one way or another if you want to call somebody dialing up their portfolio manager once a month to learn how many millions more they got that month "earning" that money... Certainly seems like a fairly tortured use of the language, but who cares. It's just rhetoric. What I said was that we give hundreds of billions to the rich in tax giveaways, not that they don't earn their money. Giving a person a tax subsidy isn't any different than any other kind of spending really. The only real difference is what you print on the top of the check.
Click to expand...

ITs funny how the people who whine about the wealthy try to justify their butt hurt caterwauling by picking extreme examples. Its like saying all welfare recipients are crack Ho's or that all union workers are people sleeping off their hangovers on the job protected by union bosses who are bankrupting the employer.

The richest top one percent pay 40% of the federal income tax burden and when you throw the estate tax in on top of that they are paying even more. In fact no group pay a higher difference between their share of the income and their share of the tax burden. In reality everyone else is getting tax subsidies paid for by the top one percent.
 
Right at the height of the teaparty assault on public unions and after the wisconsin recall vote...still more americans support public unions than do not....that number will GROW as the teaparty and conservative support diminishs...and make no mistake it will diminish and big time.

49% Favor Public Employee Unions, 46% Oppose.....thats ater the recall vote in wisc, if public unions were in the great decline that Cpwill and turtledude say then they should be in the 30s....oops but they are still on top with all the MILLIONS the krotch bros and Rove have spent

49% Favor Public Employee Unions, 46% Oppose - Rasmussen Reports™
 
lpast said:
Right at the height of the teaparty assault on public unions and after the wisconsin recall vote...still more americans support public unions than do not....that number will GROW as the teaparty and conservative support diminishs...and make no mistake it will diminish and big time.

49% Favor Public Employee Unions, 46% Oppose.....thats ater the recall vote in wisc, if public unions were in the great decline that Cpwill and turtledude say then they should be in the 30s....oops but they are still on top with all the MILLIONS the krotch bros and Rove have spent

49% Favor Public Employee Unions, 46% Oppose - Rasmussen Reports™
Click to expand...

I wonder how many of those who favor Public sector unions are net tax payers. I suspect not too many
 
TurtleDude said:
ITs funny how the people who whine about the wealthy try to justify their butt hurt caterwauling by picking extreme examples. Its like saying all welfare recipients are crack Ho's or that all union workers are people sleeping off their hangovers on the job protected by union bosses who are bankrupting the employer.

The richest top one percent pay 40% of the federal income tax burden and when you throw the estate tax in on top of that they are paying even more. In fact no group pay a higher difference between their share of the income and their share of the tax burden. In reality everyone else is getting tax subsidies paid for by the top one percent.
Click to expand...

shhh no one pays attention to your whining we know its all contrived bs....the top 1% have all the money they stole it off the 99% and we WILL get more off you...and I will remind you gleefully when it happens my friend :)
 
TurtleDude said:
ITs funny how the people who whine about the wealthy try to justify their butt hurt caterwauling by picking extreme examples. Its like saying all welfare recipients are crack Ho's or that all union workers are people sleeping off their hangovers on the job protected by union bosses who are bankrupting the employer.
Click to expand...

How is it an extreme example? Most of the super rich don't work. Making over $1 million a year without working is pretty much the standard definition of the rich. What is it about my example that you thought was extreme?

TurtleDude said:
The richest top one percent pay 40% of the federal income tax burden and when you throw the estate tax in on top of that they are paying even more. In fact no group pay a higher difference between their share of the income and their share of the tax burden. In reality everyone else is getting tax subsidies paid for by the top one percent.
Click to expand...

How many times do you think I've debunked that with you TD? 100? 1,000? Yet there you are still pretending you don't know any better... Its just shameful. I don't really know what else to say about that.
 
lpast said:
shhh no one pays attention to your whining we know its all contrived bs....the top 1% have all the money they stole it off the 99% and we WILL get more off you...and I will remind you gleefully when it happens my friend :)
Click to expand...


your envious rants are idiotic. how does a professional baseball player steal from public sector teat suckers? How does a doctor? That you think you should be able to steal more from those more productive and intelligent than you are is hilarious but it is the mindset we expect from public sector union types
 
teamosil said:
How is it an extreme example? Most of the super rich don't work. Making over $1 million a year without working is pretty much the standard definition of the rich. What is it about my example that you thought was extreme?



How many times do you think I've debunked that with you TD? 100? 1,000? Yet there you are still pretending you don't know any better... Its just shameful. I don't really know what else to say about that.
Click to expand...

You have never debunked anything What I have posted is beyond dispute. The top one percent between 36 and 39% of the FIT and all the estate taxes-the two progressive federal taxes levied upon American citizens. The top one percent make between 16 and 22% of the total income. You have never come close to debunking this, Your master Obama considers anyone making more than 250K rich. I make over a million and I work. I know lots of millionaires-in fact just about everyone who belongs to the same club I play tennis and squash at is a millionaire using the definition of One million in assets and I suspect at least a quarter of them make more than a million a year and almost all of them work rather hard. Top doctors, lawyers, the president of PG, the CFO of GE jet engines, the president of U of Cincinnati, the president of Cincinnati Bell etc.

what other 1 percent of the US public pays that much income tax?

Posts whining about the rich scream a serious level of FAILURE
 
TurtleDude said:
I wonder how many of those who favor Public sector unions are net tax payers. I suspect not too many
Click to expand...

I wonder why after several years you cannot supply a definition of net taxpayer that can be applied to the American people?
 
haymarket said:
I wonder why after several years you cannot supply a definition of net taxpayer that can be applied to the American people?
Click to expand...

well most public sector workers are clearly NOT net Tax payers. The last number I heard was about 117K a year in earned income was about the break where you are actually paying more in FIT than you are getting but of course there are many variables.
 
TurtleDude said:
well most public sector workers are clearly NOT net Tax payers. The last number I heard was about 117K a year in earned income was about the break where you are actually paying more in FIT than you are getting but of course there are many variables.
Click to expand...

And it is those self admitted MANY VARIABLES that render your holier than thou "net taxpayer" label to be worth less than a common fifty pound bag of garden manure.
 
When there is liberty and justice for all, no one will want to mess much with the structure of that status quo.

When there isn't liberty and justice for all, well, then, depending on the nature and degree of the imbalance, people with principles will make an effort to restore the balance.

When it comes to the age-old battle in the money system between owners and their minions and workers and their rabble, time will tell as to the form and structure of the liberty and justice balancing mechanism that will attempt to be utilized by the party suffering less liberty or less justice.

One thing, however, is certain, and that's that if history is any indication, if one perceived liberty and justice balancing mechanism is discarded, no matter which party does the discarding, another one will surely take it's place, in time.

Usually the subsequent release level of the item is a more effective mechanism.
 
haymarket said:
And it is those self admitted MANY VARIABLES that render your holier than thou "net taxpayer" label to be worth less than a common fifty pound bag of garden manure.
Click to expand...

well its easy to know who is a net tax consumer-public sector workers who are paid with our tax dollars. those of us paying over 100K in taxes are clearly net tax payers

speaking of garden manure.........
 
TurtleDude said:
I wonder how many of those who favor Public sector unions are net tax payers. I suspect not too many
Click to expand...

The people that support public unions INCLUDE all the people police have saved...all the parents that had kids saved by cops and fireman...all the people who had fireman running into thier burning buildings to save their families and pets while they were running out...people that treasure their public school teachers...that got them started to success and all the people that know that the assault on public unions is just cover by the rich to gain control of the one last thing they cant control...GOVT WORKERS so they are trying to end run but turning the country against them...YOU WILL FAIL in the end...no one is going to roll over and play dead for the true entitlement crowd the pigs at the trough who whine incessantly how they are being abused.....but its not going to work in the end...after this election cycle its all going to begin changing...
Had a long wait in the Doctors office, I brought my wife for her appt...I was talking to a few couples...two of which said they were lifelong republicans that have dropped them like a ton of bricks...I said so have I...we collectively agreed were sick of the dispicable whining of the rich that HAVE IT ALL ...Id bet theres alot more like us...that the polls dont reflect....
 
TurtleDude said:
well its easy to know who is a net tax consumer-public sector workers who are paid with our tax dollars. those of us paying over 100K in taxes are clearly net tax payers

speaking of garden manure.........
Click to expand...

BS. Lots and lots and lots of BS.

All you are doing is looking at one side of the ledger. Google amazon and you will find lots of basic accounting books. You will learn something new: there are two sides to be considered. In this case one must look at taxes paid in and total benefit received.

I have a famous post of yours where you admit that is not possible to calculate.
 
teamosil said:
Seriously man. Just shameful. You need to get your act together. It's 100% obvious to everybody that you're doing this on purpose. Nobody is fooled.
Click to expand...

so you are speaking for everyone now? rather than refuting what I have posted (and dozens of others have posted -often in the economic forum on this board) you throw out moronic platitudes that are basically a facade for your well known inability to actually counter facts
 
TurtleDude said:
so you are speaking for everyone now? rather than refuting what I have posted (and dozens of others have posted -often in the economic forum on this board) you throw out moronic platitudes that are basically a facade for your well known inability to actually counter facts
Click to expand...

You have not posted anything of substance - only your usual pompous pontifications worshipping Mammon.

Of course, you could actually build a case with verifiable evidence. We will await that.
 
lpast said:
The people that support public unions INCLUDE all the people police have saved...all the parents that had kids saved by cops and fireman...all the people who had fireman running into thier burning buildings to save their families and pets while they were running out...people that treasure their public school teachers...that got them started to success and all the people that know that the assault on public unions is just cover by the rich to gain control of the one last thing they cant control...GOVT WORKERS so they are trying to end run but turning the country against them...YOU WILL FAIL in the end...no one is going to roll over and play dead for the true entitlement crowd the pigs at the trough who whine incessantly how they are being abused.....but its not going to work in the end...after this election cycle its all going to begin changing...
Had a long wait in the Doctors office, I brought my wife for her appt...I was talking to a few couples...two of which said they were lifelong republicans that have dropped them like a ton of bricks...I said so have I...we collectively agreed were sick of the dispicable whining of the rich that HAVE IT ALL ...Id bet theres alot more like us...that the polls dont reflect....
Click to expand...

all the people police have saved? LOL

Your silly stories are just that. Nothing is more transparent than those who suck at the public teat wanting others to supply more milk


Walker proved lots of us are tiring of the little piggies squealing for more and more milk paid for by those of us who aren't dependent on the government hog
 
haymarket said:
You have not posted anything of substance - only your usual pompous pontifications worshipping Mammon.

Of course, you could actually build a case with verifiable evidence. We will await that.
Click to expand...

MOre of the usual nonsense. Mammon? the patron idol of those who gain power by using government to take property from those who earned it?
 
lpast said:
The people that support public unions INCLUDE all the people police have saved...all the parents that had kids saved by cops and fireman...all the people who had fireman running into thier burning buildings to save their families and pets while they were running out...people that treasure their public school teachers...that got them started to success and all the people that know that the assault on public unions is just cover by the rich to gain control of the one last thing they cant control...GOVT WORKERS so they are trying to end run but turning the country against them...YOU WILL FAIL in the end...no one is going to roll over and play dead for the true entitlement crowd the pigs at the trough who whine incessantly how they are being abused.....but its not going to work in the end...after this election cycle its all going to begin changing...
Had a long wait in the Doctors office, I brought my wife for her appt...I was talking to a few couples...two of which said they were lifelong republicans that have dropped them like a ton of bricks...I said so have I...we collectively agreed were sick of the dispicable whining of the rich that HAVE IT ALL ...Id bet theres alot more like us...that the polls dont reflect....
Click to expand...

Now this is just hilarious. I live in a right to work state. I have yet to see ANY corporation control government workers. I haven't even seen them attempt to try.

Also there are lots of unions in this state. Including public unions.
 
TurtleDude said:
so you are speaking for everyone now? rather than refuting what I have posted (and dozens of others have posted -often in the economic forum on this board) you throw out moronic platitudes that are basically a facade for your well known inability to actually counter facts
Click to expand...

Pretending you don't know- still after we've discussed it literally 100s of times- that FIT are less than half of taxes, is just flat out dishonest. And, yeah, everybody sees you doing it. Over and over and over. Many times you try it many times in a single thread and get called out pretty much every time.
 
teamosil said:
Pretending you don't know- still after we've discussed it literally 100s of times- that FIT are less than half of taxes, is just flat out dishonest. And, yeah, everybody sees you doing it. Over and over and over. Many times you try it many times in a single thread and get called out pretty much every time.
Click to expand...

You are confused as usual. THE FIT and the ESTATE tax are the only progressive federal taxes on income. The fact is I have always said the top one percent pays close to 40% of the FIT and yet makes 22% of the income. The FIT is tied to income. I cannot help it if you cannot figure that out. gasoline taxes, FICA, state sales taxes, property taxes etc are not directly tied to income.

try again. what you whine about is your incorrect interpretation of what I have said. The rich are the only group that pay a HIGHER share of the FEDERAL INCOME (repeat INCOME) Tax than their SHARE OF THE ITEM THAT TAX APPLIES TO-INCOME
 
TurtleDude said:
You are confused as usual. THE FIT and the ESTATE tax are the only progressive federal taxes on income. The fact is I have always said the top one percent pays close to 40% of the FIT and yet makes 22% of the income. The FIT is tied to income. I cannot help it if you cannot figure that out. gasoline taxes, FICA, state sales taxes, property taxes etc are not directly tied to income.
Click to expand...

So, again, for the 100th time, none of that counters the argument at all. As you know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom