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Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes in the United States?

Do the Rich Pay Their Fair Share?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 48.3%

  • No

    Votes: 62 51.7%
  • Total voters
    120
cpwill said:
The portions under "Population below minimum level of dietary energy consumption" are blank. Can you cite the relevant statistic? How many Americans starve to death annually?
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From actual starvation? Just over 100/yr IIRC. From malnutrition leading to illness and death? Probably thousands easily - but it's hard to tell with poor health care thrown into the mix as well.


http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/120995/ap057.pdf
 
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274ina said:
real question is why do idiots making $80k support people making $300 million year?
And the $80k guy is paying 2x the taxes? LOL
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Because they have other issues that over ride them getting shafted and supporting the rich that shaft them....racism..silly beliefs that democrats can take our guns...NO ONE CAN TAKE OUR GUNS ANYMORE its impossible now. Abortion...Religion...so many extraneous one issue things that in the whole scope mean nothing...without all the others...but thats how it is...theres people making 20-30-40 grand supporting the super rich...for super stupid reasons in my opinion
 
lpast said:
Because they have other issues that over ride them getting shafted and supporting the rich that shaft them....racism..silly beliefs that democrats can take our guns...NO ONE CAN TAKE OUR GUNS ANYMORE its impossible now. Abortion...Religion...so many extraneous one issue things that in the whole scope mean nothing...without all the others...but thats how it is...theres people making 20-30-40 grand supporting the super rich...for super stupid reasons in my opinion
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In Virginia, they are known as trailer park Republicans ~


trailerparkrepublican.jpg
 
274ina said:
real question is why do idiots making $80k support people making $300 million year?
And the $80k guy is paying 2x the taxes? LOL
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2X the taxes? What idiocy. Someone with 300 Million that is Only investment income still pays a far higher effective rate than someone making 80K

and the rich guy pays more taxes in a quarter than the 80K guy will pay in a lifetime

stop the silly nonsense
 
haymarket said:
I have had years where I pay a larger percentage in my income in federal income tax alone that Mittens did in federal income tax alone. I have explained before that I have a wide and varied stream of income. Yes, I work for a member of the legislature. But I do that mostly as a hobby. I could quit today, get Social Security and expand my consulting and make up the same revenues if I wanted to do so. I stay on as a favor to a former student. I have a pension from 33 years as an educator. I do political consulting work on the side. I have royalty revenue from books. I have shared in film rights sales. I have income from sales of collectibles and art.

In other years, where Mittens paid a higher income tax percentage than I did, I paid a total tax bill of a higher percentage when you add in other federal taxes such as FICA. In those years my income came mostly from teaching or legislative employment and the royalties may have been down. In years where I do count FICA, in fairness, I would also count the FICA from Mittens as well, It would not be fair to do otherwise.

But no matter how you want to calculate it, I have years where I pay a larger percentage that Mittens in federal taxes.

Your doubts are your own right. Enjoy them.
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Romney pays more federal taxes on his income in a year than you will in your lifetime

you have no grounds to whine about his rates
 
Catawba said:
In Virginia, they are known as trailer park Republicans ~


trailerparkrepublican.jpg
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Democrats are people who vote for billionaires like Kerry because they like his message about bashing the rich
 
TurtleDude said:
Romney pays more federal taxes on his income in a year than you will in your lifetime

you have no grounds to whine about his rates
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Romney earns more in a year than most will in their lifetime
He and others of his status have no grounds to whine about their rates
 
Fruityfact said:
Romney earns more in a year than most will in their lifetime
He and others of his status have no grounds to whine about their rates
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:shrug: you have enjoyed more access to luxury goods and individual freedom than the vast majority of humanity. you have no ground to complain when your rights are taken away.
 
Fruityfact said:
Romney earns more in a year than most will in their lifetime
He and others of his status have no grounds to whine about their rates
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Very interesting political theory; as your income rises, you lose your free speach rights?
 
MoSurveyor said:
From actual starvation? Just over 100/yr IIRC. From malnutrition leading to illness and death? Probably thousands easily - but it's hard to tell with poor health care thrown into the mix as well.


http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/120995/ap057.pdf
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All I see here is "food insecurity", which they seem to take to mean "doesn't make alot of money".

It's sort of silly to expand food stamp coverage, and then label everyone taking foodstamps as having "food insecurity" for the purposes of buffing ones' numbers to call for more food stamps.

I still don't see where 100 people starve to death under conditions not already covered. I find the claim that our poor are starving... extremely suspect. I've been poor enough to be actually hungry from it, and I've raised a family on an income that rated food stamps. The only reason I or we never accessed aid is because we didn't want it.
 
TurtleDude said:
Romney pays more federal taxes on his income in a year than you will in your lifetime

you have no grounds to whine about his rates
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But that was not the point and never was the point. We are talking about the PERCENTAGE of federal taxes that are paid by an individual.

Of course Romney pays a larger amount in taxes because he has tons more income. But his PERCENTAGE of that income that he pays in federal taxes is what is under discussion.

Do you finally understand that now?

You do not seem to either understand or accept that ALL Americans have a Constitutional right to participate in a discussion of tax policy. Those 'grounds' are beyond your ability to grant.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Very interesting political theory; as your income rises, you lose your free speach rights?
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apparently if you have more stuff than I do, you have no call to complain if I steal some.
 
cpwill said:
apparently if you have more stuff than I do, you have no call to complain if I steal some.
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Who is saying that? I see nobody here advocating stealing from anyone.
 
cpwill said:
All I see here is "food insecurity", which they seem to take to mean "doesn't make alot of money".

It's sort of silly to expand food stamp coverage, and then label everyone taking foodstamps as having "food insecurity" for the purposes of buffing ones' numbers to call for more food stamps.

I still don't see where 100 people starve to death under conditions not already covered. I find the claim that our poor are starving... extremely suspect. I've been poor enough to be actually hungry from it, and I've raised a family on an income that rated food stamps. The only reason I or we never accessed aid is because we didn't want it.
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You think everyone lives in a big city where everything is within easy reach? LOL! Suspect all you want but I've seen malnutrition in the rural areas of my own state. In the city if things get tough people steal. In the country it's not so simple.
 
cpwill said:
apparently if you have more stuff than I do, you have no call to complain if I steal some.
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The left does not call it stealing, they call it "fair" taxation or "social justice". Income redistribution is viewed, by the left, as "fairness". From each according to their ability (to pay taxes), to each according to their need (for free stuff). Yes they can!
 
TurtleDude said:
2X the taxes? What idiocy. Someone with 300 Million that is Only investment income still pays a far higher effective rate than someone making 80K

and the rich guy pays more taxes in a quarter than the 80K guy will pay in a lifetime

stop the silly nonsense
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Sorry wrong.

Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com

The $80k guy pays 25% and then ads on 13% for FICA etc etc etc. Lots more than 16%. And thats a FACT.
 
haymarket said:
Who is saying that? I see nobody here advocating stealing from anyone.
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Your idea is to call super-taxing the rich "fairness", because they are so rich that they surely will not miss it. This model has one very serious flaw; the rich tend to get that way by producing goods and services. If the taxes (business expenses) go up for the rich, they simply raise the price of those goods and services, passing the cost of that added taxation on to ALL as inflation, the unescapable, hidden taxation of the poor. If this business taxation gets too high, as it is want to do, then exports of goods are no longer possible, causing the business to seek an off shore, lower taxed place to opperate. Now you get not only higher prices, but less places to work too; rinse and repeat.
 
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274ina said:
Sorry wrong.

Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com

The $80k guy pays 25% and then ads on 13% for FICA etc etc etc. Lots more than 16%. And thats a FACT.
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Sneak in that FICA (at the self employed rate no less), to make your apples to moonrocks "FACT" comparison work out. By the way, that $80K guy actually pays FIT at 10.2% assuming married filing jointly (no kids), or 12% filing single.

For FIT "FACT" try this site: http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/federal-income-tax-estimator?skn=

How many people are employed as a result of that $80K guy? I tend to get hired by rich people, help wanted ads are rarely the result of poor folks needing to hire well paid help.
 
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MoSurveyor said:
You think everyone lives in a big city where everything is within easy reach? LOL! Suspect all you want but I've seen malnutrition in the rural areas of my own state. In the city if things get tough people steal. In the country it's not so simple.
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I know the country - I've got family and kinfolk there. Hell, I live surrounded by cows. What in the world makes you think that access to a store = access to food?
 
MoSurveyor said:
You think everyone lives in a big city where everything is within easy reach? LOL! Suspect all you want but I've seen malnutrition in the rural areas of my own state. In the city if things get tough people steal. In the country it's not so simple.
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They don't have charities in big cities? That's unfortunate.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The left does not call it stealing, they call it "fair" taxation or "social justice". Income redistribution is viewed, by the left, as "fairness". From each according to their ability (to pay taxes), to each according to their need (for free stuff). Yes they can!
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So lets be clear here - in your opinion, taxation levied by the duly elected representatives of the people in a democratic republic according to the US Constitutional provisions is STEALING?

Is that your opinion?
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
Your idea is to call super-taxing the rich "fairness", because they are so rich that they surely will not miss it. This model has one very serious flaw; the rich tend to get that way by producing goods and services. If the taxes (business expenses) go up for the rich, they simply raise the price of those goods and services, passing the cost of that added taxation on to ALL as inflation, the unescapable, hidden taxation of the poor. If this business taxation gets too high, as it is want to do, then exports of goods are no longer possible, causing the business to seek an off shore, lower taxed place to opperate. Now you get not only higher prices, but less places to work too; rinse and repeat.
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Screw FAIR or FAIRNESS or whatever variation of that term you want to use. Its a term we will NEVER be able to agree on so lets just flush it. The term APPROPRIATE when talking about taxation is a superior one.

I have repeatedly stated that I favor a five point across the board increase for ALL Americans who earn dollar one. In addition, I would end most deductions. I would end the capital gains tax and the inheritance tax rates and simply treat those monies as normal income with the applicable schedule.

As far as businesses moving jobs out of the nation - the Founders in our Constitution spoke to that by giving the Congress the power to levy a tariff.
 
haymarket said:
But that was not the point and never was the point. We are talking about the PERCENTAGE of federal taxes that are paid by an individual.
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The problem I have with this continual debate point is that when ‘your side of the isle’ argues individual taxation it is about percentage but ‘you guys’ argue corporate taxation it is all about the dollars. It is very common to read about the obscene profits oil companies make but in reality their profit margins are in mid-single digits and are far away from the industries with much higher rates. I understand why this is done without sensationalizing an issue it would go unnoticeable to the average citizen and both sides use the same tactic.
 
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