PRENDA - Prenatal Non-Descrimination Act

[friday]

In China, they know all about aborting girls in order to try again for a boy. Recent undercover videos are showing that Planned Parenthood is advising the same thing in the US for mothers who wanted one gender and are getting another. Kill it and try again. Should aborting girls (or boys) in order to try again for a different gender be legal? Or is that a form of sex discrimination? Same with race. What if they discover a gay gene? Should parents be allowed to abort a gay child and try again for a straight one?

 

[roughdraft274]

In China, they know all about aborting girls in order to try again for a boy. Recent undercover videos are showing that Planned Parenthood is advising the same thing in the US for mothers who wanted one gender and are getting another. Kill it and try again. Should aborting girls (or boys) in order to try again for a different gender be legal? Or is that a form of sex discrimination? Same with race. What if they discover a gay gene? Should parents be allowed to abort a gay child and try again for a straight one?

I don't see why it should be illegal. Really, Roe V. Wade was not determined that women are allowed abortions only for certain reasons. And you can only discriminate against people. You can't discriminate against fetuses.

Also, the only viedo i can find of this is where a couple, posing as patients, asked about aborting their fetus if it turns out to be a girl and the person helping just told them how late you can wait for an abortion and how long it normally is til you can tell if a fetus is boy or girl. I highly doubt there's a video out there where a Planned parenthood worker is actively talking someone in to doing something like that. Unless there are more videos out there that I just haven't seen or something.

 

[ttwtt78640]

This poll lacks my choice which is that no abortion of a healthy, normal child should be a choice. Once you allow choosing then who is to say what the REAL motive may be? When we allowed the "health" of the mother to be considered then 'depression' of the mother over simply being pregnant became a valid reason to terminate the child. It is far too easy to state reason "A", when the real reason is "Z", once you know the of it. Abortion is now pratically just another form of birth control.

 

[jamesrage]

I do not see why people who are for legalized abortion would care if someone has an abortion for gender selection.

 

[friday]

So just to be clear, if a gay gene is discovered and a religious group begins preaching about getting your unborn baby tested and how late you can have an abortion, you'd be just fine with that?

 

[friday]

(that was a response to Roughdraft)

 

[jamesrage]

So just to be clear, if a gay gene is discovered and a religious group begins preaching about getting your unborn baby tested and how late you can have an abortion, you'd be just fine with that?

I don't think the abortionist would care one way or the other if someone is aborting their baby because of gender or aborting their baby because of sexual preference.

 

[molten_dragon]

Yes, I think it should be legal under the same circumstances that any elective abortion would be legal. And quite frankly, if abortion is legal at all, I don't see how you could put a stop to the practice. After all, it's not like the mother has to tell the person performing the abortion why she's having one (or give them an honest reason).

 

[JayDubya]

I don't think the abortionist would care one way or the other if someone is aborting their baby because of gender or aborting their baby because of sexual preference.

Course not. They're mercenary killers. They don't care as long as they get paid.

 

[Kal'Stang]

In China, they know all about aborting girls in order to try again for a boy. Recent undercover videos are showing that Planned Parenthood is advising the same thing in the US for mothers who wanted one gender and are getting another. Kill it and try again. Should aborting girls (or boys) in order to try again for a different gender be legal? Or is that a form of sex discrimination? Same with race. What if they discover a gay gene? Should parents be allowed to abort a gay child and try again for a straight one?

Since I believe in a womans right to chose why would I care if she chose to abort because of gender?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

In China, they know all about aborting girls in order to try again for a boy. Recent undercover videos are showing that Planned Parenthood is advising the same thing in the US for mothers who wanted one gender and are getting another. Kill it and try again. Should aborting girls (or boys) in order to try again for a different gender be legal? Or is that a form of sex discrimination? Same with race. What if they discover a gay gene? Should parents be allowed to abort a gay child and try again for a straight one?

Apparently our country needs to work on equality and women's rights if our own countrymen are loathing the idea of having a female.

What are we to some people: A burden? A blight? . . . . people might be focused on the abortion - I'm more disturbed by the overall mindset that these people (husband & wives) seem to be in. You can't have people opposing women, and beholding men - and then expect everyone to always be ok with the gender they've conceived :shrug:

Makes me want to know more about these individuals and understand the bigger and deeper issue, here. You know: maybe it's a psychological problem that has other issues, too. Say: if the next test was wrong (becausey ou can't always tell - and even 'telling' isn't spot-on.) . . . imagine if they thought they were having a boy and she turned out to be a female . . .then what?

I'm also disturbed about the heartbroken documented issues that men develop when they don't have their little football tossing baseball hitting fantasies with their 'sons' come true on the birth of a daugther.

Peopel disturb me - and my disturbance reaches beyond this abortion issue.

 

[nota bene]

In China, they know all about aborting girls in order to try again for a boy. Recent undercover videos are showing that Planned Parenthood is advising the same thing in the US for mothers who wanted one gender and are getting another. Kill it and try again. Should aborting girls (or boys) in order to try again for a different gender be legal? Or is that a form of sex discrimination? Same with race. What if they discover a gay gene? Should parents be allowed to abort a gay child and try again for a straight one?

That would be a slippery slope, wouldn't it?

By an ABC blogger:

Many nations with staunchly pro-choice/pro-abortion rights laws and protections nevertheless ban sex-selection abortions. Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Finland, the Netherlands all have laws banning sex-selection abortions.

A vote on the measure was postponed until Thursday. Approval of the measure is subject to a two-thirds majority, which may be difficult to attain given the Democrats’ general opposition to what they perceive as another Republican attempt to engage Democrats in the so-called War on Women.

Sex-Selection Abortions Bill Pits Democrats Against Republicans in House - ABC News

 

[Kal'Stang]

Apparently our country needs to work on equality and women's rights if our own countrymen are loathing the idea of having a female.

What are we to some people: A burden? A blight? . . . . people might be focused on the abortion - I'm more disturbed by the overall mindset that these people (husband & wives) seem to be in. You can't have people opposing women, and beholding men - and then expect everyone to always be ok with the gender they've conceived :shrug:

Makes me want to know more about these individuals and understand the bigger and deeper issue, here. You know: maybe it's a psychological problem that has other issues, too. Say: if the next test was wrong (becausey ou can't always tell - and even 'telling' isn't spot-on.) . . . imagine if they thought they were having a boy and she turned out to be a female . . .then what?

I'm also disturbed about the heartbroken documented issues that men develop when they don't have their little football tossing baseball hitting fantasies with their 'sons' come true on the birth of a daugther.

Peopel disturb me - and my disturbance reaches beyond this abortion issue.

I wouldn't really worry about it. The only reason that it is an issue is because that Live Action group or whatever its called tried to make PP guilty of it. They prolly got the idea from China and figured it'd be a good thing to try in order to make PP look bad. And its already been shown that the video in question was not only blown out of proportion because Live Actions claim was not what actually happened but that the video was also edited.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I wouldn't really worry about it. The only reason that it is an issue is because that Live Action group or whatever its called tried to make PP guilty of it. They prolly got the idea from China and figured it'd be a good thing to try in order to make PP look bad. And its already been shown that the video in question was not only blown out of proportion because Live Actions claim was not what actually happened but that the video was also edited.

Well - it's not 'just now coming to light' - some (emphasis on the some) people have always preferred one gender over the other - it's been going on for quite some time . . . and I know it's been researched but it needs more studying to understand why just having a baby isn't good enough.

 

[nota bene]

Well - it's not 'just now coming to light' - some (emphasis on the some) people have always preferred one gender over the other - it's been going on for quite some time . . . and I know it's been researched but it needs more studying to understand why just having a baby isn't good enough.

You mean here in the States, right? Why would a couple prefer a male child? To carry on the name? Less expensive? Otherwise more "valuable" how?

But we know why males are preferred in China and India:

BBC - Ethics - Abortion: Female infanticide

 

[Aunt Spiker]

You mean here in the States, right? Why would a couple prefer a male child? To carry on the name? Less expensive? Otherwise more "valuable" how?

But we know why males are preferred in China and India:

BBC - Ethics - Abortion: Female infanticide

I'm referring to the mindset that adults are in when they're preferring one gender over another - it is *not* just a matter of 'not wanting girls' - some people also 'don't want boys' . . . it is not new. It is not isolated to only some countries, either . . . it is a documented odd part of what seems to be human-nature. It is strange, I think, and might be a sign of a larger and deeper issue that might affect how someone can parent in general.

It's been studied - and needs more studies. I think it's harder to study, however, because people with feeling and thoughts might not be forthcoming if their views are negated by society.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Well - it's not 'just now coming to light' - some (emphasis on the some) people have always preferred one gender over the other - it's been going on for quite some time . . . and I know it's been researched but it needs more studying to understand why just having a baby isn't good enough.

I'm referring to the mindset that adults are in when they're preferring one gender over another - it is *not* just a matter of 'not wanting girls' - some people also 'don't want boys' . . . it is not new. It is not isolated to only some countries, either . . . it is a documented odd part of what seems to be human-nature. It is strange, I think, and might be a sign of a larger and deeper issue that might affect how someone can parent in general.

It's been studied - and needs more studies. I think it's harder to study, however, because people with feeling and thoughts might not be forthcoming if their views are negated by society.

I see what you're talking about now. Yeah there are definitely people like this. I know in China it has to do with the cultural thought that men are more valuable then women. Which is reflected in their buisnesses and politics. Women politicians and women CEO's aren't exactly what China is known for. So I would bet that cultural values play a big part in making such decisions.

 

[Wake]

If a nation is staunchly pro-choice, but doesn't allow sex-selective abortions, then it's likely some people aren't progressive enough to "progress."

 

[Aunt Spiker]

If a nation is staunchly pro-choice, but doesn't allow sex-selective abortions, then it's likely some people aren't progressive enough to "progress."

We're not staunchly pro-choice. . . I don't believe that having a middle ground is unacceptable. We have a wide variety of limitations and controls thorughout the states - and federall some procedures (etc) aren't acceptable.

Having limitation denotes that it is a serious issue - and isn't just a 'womens rights' concern. I really dont' like it when abortion is equated with me going to vote on election day . . . yes, it should be recognized and even controlled and limited to a degree.

 

[Kal'Stang]

If a nation is staunchly pro-choice, but doesn't allow sex-selective abortions, then it's likely some people aren't progressive enough to "progress."

Being pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean that you are for EVERYTHING. I'm pro-choice but I am against abortion in the last trimester unless the mothers health is at stake.

The world is not black and white, why should human issues be black and white?

 

[Wake]

We're not staunchly pro-choice. . . I don't believe that having a middle ground is unacceptable. We have a wide variety of limitations and controls thorughout the states - and federall some procedures (etc) aren't acceptable.

Having limitation denotes that it is a serious issue - and isn't just a 'womens rights' concern. I really dont' like it when abortion is equated with me going to vote on election day . . . yes, it should be recognized and even controlled and limited to a degree.

Personally I detest abortion. I'm against it unless the mother's life is at risk.

Merely, it just makes me wonder why there'd be people who support abortion who then turn and say you can't abort because your child is male/female/"gay"/of a certain race/etc.

Imo human life is something far more valuable than the right to kill. This certainly includes killing for select traits the unborn may have.

Being pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean that you are for EVERYTHING. I'm pro-choice but I am against abortion in the last trimester unless the mothers health is at stake.

The world is not black and white, why should human issues be black and white?

To me it just seems that people aren't done "progressing" on this issue until they've hit the very end of their political ideology. We can easily see the progression from the last 100 years. The progression will continue for the next 100+ years, I think.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Personally I detest abortion. I'm against it unless the mother's life is at risk.

Merely, it just makes me wonder why there'd be people who support abortion who then turn and say you can't abort because your child is male/female/"gay"/of a certain race/etc.

Imo human life is something far more valuable than the right to kill. This certainly includes killing for select traits the unborn may have.



To me it just seems that people aren't done "progressing" on this issue until they've hit the very end of their political ideology. We can easily see the progression from the last 100 years. The progression will continue for the next 100+ years, I think.

I see your point - to me it's not *just* a moral or ethical concern (right vs wrong) . . . it is very complex - every child born affects the health of the mother, family it's born into, siblings, education . . etc etc. . . . all these things do and should matter to a varying degree.

Trying to make it black-and-white really cuts out the other aspects of all of it; it's not just about the mother and her life / health / education - it's about all others who will have to make changes and alter their paht in life as well.

It's not *abortion is that important or impacting* - it's that *children are that important or impacting* . . . It makes little sense to me to bring a child into an unhealthy environment in which it's needs in life will not be met - it's a conflict of interests and rights. Very complicated.

 

[lizzie]

Since it is already legal, why would (or should) there be restrictions placed on the reason why a woman wants an abortion? I doubt that the baby would really give a damn why it was being aborted, and to restrict womens' choices, based on a "why", which they can lie about anyway, would essentially be meaningless.

I support choice, although I personally oppose abortion, and would not have one, because I believe it is the taking of a human life. Placing value on a baby due to it's sex, disability, or other factors one might find objectionable isn't really placing value in life itself, but making a judgement that one sex is preferable over another, or that a "perfect" baby has more value than an imperfect one. Since legally, fetuses aren 't considered persons, what difference does it make what one's reason for aborting may be?

 

[Paschendale]

I think sex selective abortions are only really a problem if they become widespread. The individual desire of a couple to decide what shape they want their family to be is certainly something that ought to be protected. So long as there is not a one-sided epidemic of this that produces a massive imbalance between genders, in either direction, the aggregate effect isn't harmful. I think it's a shallow reason to abort a pregnancy, but I also think it's not any of our business why a person seeks an abortion.

 

[Ikari]

In China, they know all about aborting girls in order to try again for a boy. Recent undercover videos are showing that Planned Parenthood is advising the same thing in the US for mothers who wanted one gender and are getting another. Kill it and try again. Should aborting girls (or boys) in order to try again for a different gender be legal? Or is that a form of sex discrimination? Same with race. What if they discover a gay gene? Should parents be allowed to abort a gay child and try again for a straight one?

It's a tricky subject actually. At base you would say well how is it really different than abortion in general? If one is allowed to abort, then it shouldn't matter the reason as to why they want to do it.

The tricky part is if this aggregates to too high a level. If only a few people here and there are aborting on sex or race considerations; then it's fine. But if a lot of people start doing it in the same direction, as is the case in China, you will start to develop significant and serious demographic imbalances. We need to be aware of that because once we're not just taking nature at nature; but rather purposefully interfering with our population make up, you can cause serious problems down the road. If it's on some small number scale it won't be a big problem, but if too many people do it coherently then it will be a problem.