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For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

For Veterans and Military personnel only.


  • Total voters
    51
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

The vast majority of my career has been in a joint environment. I am Army but I have worked alongside Navy, Air Force, Marines, and even Coast Guard. We have fun making jokes at each other’s expense but we still respect each other. In the end we all chose a career of service. It probably helps that we work in an environment where we are vastly outnumbered by State Department civilians. When that is the case the differences between the services don’t stand out quite so much. ;)

ETA: As to the thread topic, yes there are military members here but tht doesn't mean the results aren't skewed.

Agreed on all points except about the State Dept. There are only about 50,000 State Dept. employees compared to about 1.4 million active duty personnel and 1.1 million reserves.

Internet forum polls are not scientific and should be judged for entertainment value only.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Agreed on all points except about the State Dept. There are only about 50,000 State Dept. employees compared to about 1.4 million active duty personnel and 1.1 million reserves.

I work at an embassy. Trust me, we are outnumbered. At my last assignment I was one of only 3 US military personnel in the entire country. Not even any Marine Security Guards there.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I work at an embassy. Trust me, we are outnumbered. At my last assignment I was one of only 3 US military personnel in the entire country. Not even any Marine Security Guards there.

In an Embassy, sure, but overall, no.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

And you've been wrong since 2007.

I was there, Boo. You are trying to correct me about things that I took part in, because you are stuck defending a foolish position you struck declaring something a failure because that would have been ideologically beneficial.

Catawba said:
cpwill said:
I find it really entertaining that even you apparently don't know what you mean. Is it "Wall Street"? Or is it financial service workers? Or is it the 1%?

Wall Street donors favor Romney

Finance industry makes up nearly half of pro-Romney super PAC’s donations

Right-Wing Billionaires Behind Mitt Romney

Count 'Em: 30 Billionaires Now Backing Romney's Super PAC

So.... you don't know? You just threw out the "1%" line as a BS talking point? Hey, what percent of Americans do you think George Clooney is in? How about all the Black Rock guys that Obama hangs out with? Oprah? All those Hollywood actors? How about John Corzine?

On all the issues that are the highest priority to me, the president's views are the closest to mine. However, if you support supply side economics, deregulation, increased spending on the military, even bigger tax cuts for the rich at the expense of our seniors, taking no action on AGW or developing clean energy, Romney is your man.

Well now we get to the thick of it. Your foolish "the guy who get's the fewest donations from rich people" is bunk and really, you know it. You are voting for the guy you agree with.

I'm curious about the "at the expense of our seniors" line, though. What do you think about Obama's plan to cut at the exact same rate as Ryan, but do it to current seniors, and apply it evenly to rich and poor alike, as opposed to Ryan's proposal to make the cuts progressive so as to protect our lower-income workers by not subsidizing our wealthier seniors?
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I don't believe this reflects the military vote here. ;)

would be interesting to see how the results changed if you removed the votes from the "old guys" who were drafted instead of volunteering
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I was there, Boo. You are trying to correct me about things that I took part in, because you are stuck defending a foolish position you struck declaring something a failure because that would have been ideologically beneficial.

You've never understood this, but being there doesn't make you right. There are other people who were there who disagree with you, but you make excuses for that and simply want your OPINION accepted as fact. it doesn't work that way.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

would be interesting to see how the results changed if you removed the votes from the "old guys" who were drafted instead of volunteering
It would likely be different. But not just because of the volunteer thing, but because age sometimes tempers the enthusiasum of youth. Some of those who see it one way today will change their view when they gain more world experience and can look at things outside the small world they currently inhabit.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

It would likely be different. But not just because of the volunteer thing, but because age sometimes tempers the enthusiasum of youth. Some of those who see it one way today will change their view when they gain more world experience and can look at things outside the small world they currently inhabit.

I can vouch for that. My first ten years in the service I was known as being "right of Attila the Hun". Since then I've mellowed toward the center. It's a big world and, as our own nation has shown, it's split down the middle between left and right. The problem with our present government is primarily due to Congressional gridlock based upon extreme partisan politics. It's why I and many others have moved to being an independent rather than stick with the extreme nature of the present political parties.

Survey: Troops shift political parties - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times
An exclusive survey of some 1,800 active-duty troops shows the percentage of self-identified Republicans has decreased by one-third since 2004, from 60 percent to 41 percent, while the percentage of self-identified independents has nearly doubled to 32 percent during the same period.

These career-oriented officers and mid-grade and senior enlisted members are still far more conservative than liberal, but they are less likely today to identify with the GOP, the survey shows.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

would be interesting to see how the results changed if you removed the votes from the "old guys" who were drafted instead of volunteering
I was going to ASU and dropped calculus (243 students in the lecture and a ESL grad student heading up the study group of over 3 students) so I got my notice from the draft board 3 days later. I went to the USAF and took some tests and signed some papers. I was sworn in, but it wasn't clear to what service. According to paperwork I was in both for a short time. I did get into the USAF. So was I drafted or did I volunteer?
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I was going to ASU and dropped calculus (243 students in the lecture and a ESL grad student heading up the study group of over 3 students) so I got my notice from the draft board 3 days later. I went to the USAF and took some tests and signed some papers. I was sworn in, but it wasn't clear to what service. According to paperwork I was in both for a short time. I did get into the USAF. So was I drafted or did I volunteer?

If you only joined one service to prevent being drafted into another, I would not consider you a volunteer. Since, had you not gotten a draft notice, you would not have joined the USAF.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

You've never understood this, but being there doesn't make you right. There are other people who were there who disagree with you, but you make excuses for that and simply want your OPINION accepted as fact. it doesn't work that way.

I'm not one of those. I was there too. I agree with CP.
 
I'm still waiting on the anti-Scott Walker-esque protests for President Obama attempting to force us to pay more into our medical care..........Anybody?.............I mean, last time I checked some union worker doesn't get Traumatic Brain Injury on the regular. Or lose limbs due to IED blasts. Just sayin.
 
I'm still waiting on the anti-Scott Walker-esque protests for President Obama attempting to force us to pay more into our medical care..........Anybody?.............I mean, last time I checked some union worker doesn't get Traumatic Brain Injury on the regular. Or lose limbs due to IED blasts. Just sayin.

why can't we get the same deal as congress. one term and retirement for life. I've done a tour in desert storm and a couple in OIF and since I am reserve component I have to wait until I am 60 until I can draw retirement
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

It would likely be different. But not just because of the volunteer thing, but because age sometimes tempers the enthusiasum of youth. Some of those who see it one way today will change their view when they gain more world experience and can look at things outside the small world they currently inhabit.

That's true - people do tend to become more conservative as they age.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

You've never understood this, but being there doesn't make you right.

Man, I watched this happen with my own eyes. We helped stand up the Iraqi local security forces, we worked with the Awakening, we helped to provide protection for the Sheikhs and their families.... furthermore (and this is what you ignore), local forces are part of Counterinsurgency Doctrine. It's as if part of our scheme of maneuver called for artillery fire, and you later claimed that shells landing in the exact right area and time during the assault had nothing to do with the fact that our Arty was shooting rounds.

You bought in to the "the Surge has failed" crap coming out of Democrat leadership, and once dramatic empirical improvements became undeniable, you thrashed about for a straw to grasp rather than honestly admitting your analytical line was flawed. You think Iraq was bad policy - okay. That doesn't mean that we have to lose, Boo.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Man, I watched this happen with my own eyes. We helped stand up the Iraqi local security forces, we worked with the Awakening, we helped to provide protection for the Sheikhs and their families.... furthermore (and this is what you ignore), local forces are part of Counterinsurgency Doctrine. It's as if part of our scheme of maneuver called for artillery fire, and you later claimed that shells landing in the exact right area and time during the assault had nothing to do with the fact that our Arty was shooting rounds.

You bought in to the "the Surge has failed" crap coming out of Democrat leadership, and once dramatic empirical improvements became undeniable, you thrashed about for a straw to grasp rather than honestly admitting your analytical line was flawed. You think Iraq was bad policy - okay. That doesn't mean that we have to lose, Boo.

You watched it through the lense of your own bias and world view. I know you don't understand this, but many watched it, and we still have differences of opinion among those who watched it. And no one said you didn't work with the Awakening. In fact, I gave credit to the General for being smart enough to take advantage. I said, it wasn't part of the plan of the surge because it happened independent of the surge and not at our prodding. You seek to take credit where it isn't due.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

That's true - people do tend to become more conservative as they age.

In somethings. And in somethings they are less likely to see things so blindly.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I'm not one of those. I was there too. I agree with CP.

The trouble is there were more than two of you, and more than can be found on this site. The fact, and it is a fact, the Awakening happened outside the surge. It was not our plan. CP, and perhaps you, are trying to take credit for someone else's work.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

The trouble is there were more than two of you, and more than can be found on this site. The fact, and it is a fact, the Awakening happened outside the surge. It was not our plan. CP, and perhaps you, are trying to take credit for someone else's work.

Indeed, it appears our invasion and occupation of Iraq may have just delayed the awakening in Iraq ~

_59174071_iraqsadr.jpg


Iraqi Shias protest against government corruption

"Tens of thousands of Iraqi Shias have marked the ninth anniversary of the US-led invasion which overthrew Saddam Hussein with a large rally in the southern city of Basra.

Supporters of the Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr used the protest to demand better living conditions.

They shouted slogans criticising government corruption and held electric cables to highlight power cuts.

Meanwhile, at least three people were killed in bomb attacks east of Baghdad.

Dozens others were injured in the bombings in Diyala province, Iraqi officials said."

BBC News - Iraqi Shias protest against government corruption
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Indeed, it appears our invasion and occupation of Iraq may have just delayed the awakening in Iraq ~

_59174071_iraqsadr.jpg


Iraqi Shias protest against government corruption

"Tens of thousands of Iraqi Shias have marked the ninth anniversary of the US-led invasion which overthrew Saddam Hussein with a large rally in the southern city of Basra.

Supporters of the Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr used the protest to demand better living conditions.

They shouted slogans criticising government corruption and held electric cables to highlight power cuts.

Meanwhile, at least three people were killed in bomb attacks east of Baghdad.

Dozens others were injured in the bombings in Diyala province, Iraqi officials said."

BBC News - Iraqi Shias protest against government corruption
So they protested and violence ensued. What's your point?
In Seattle, protesters dressed in black smashed windows and police pepper-sprayed some in the crowds.
occupy_oakland--300x300.jpg
Marches turned violent in Oakland and San Francisco, where a protester was throwing what appeared to be bricks and metal rods from the roof of a building into the crowd of demonstrators, reporters, and police - injuring at least one person
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...llies-violence-flares-in-oakland-seattle?lite
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

So they protested and violence ensued. What's your point?
In Seattle, protesters dressed in black smashed windows and police pepper-sprayed some in the crowds.
View attachment 67129198
Marches turned violent in Oakland and San Francisco, where a protester was throwing what appeared to be bricks and metal rods from the roof of a building into the crowd of demonstrators, reporters, and police - injuring at least one person
Protesters hit streets for May Day rallies; violence flares in Oakland, Seattle - U.S. News

Those were the anarchist atheists. Like the idiots in Cleveland who plotted to blow up a bridge. http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20120524142754257

nogod_nomasters_anarchism.sized_.gif
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

The trouble is there were more than two of you, and more than can be found on this site. The fact, and it is a fact, the Awakening happened outside the surge. It was not our plan. CP, and perhaps you, are trying to take credit for someone else's work.

Once again Boo, I will say that I side with CP. Further, I will show you where we executed our doctrine to the T. The surge provided the atmosphere to allow people such as Sheikh Satar to be brave enough to stand up to AQI. If not for the security provided by us, and especially the surge, he would not have been able to do that. Examples of the COIN doctrine are below. This manual was written before the surge, yet, is eerily similar to what happened in Anbar Province.
2-2. The integration of civilian and military efforts is crucial to successful COIN operations. All efforts
focus on supporting the local populace and HN government. Political, social, and economic programs are
usually more valuable than conventional military operations in addressing the root causes of conflict and
undermining an insurgency. COIN participants come from many backgrounds. They may include military
personnel, diplomats, police, politicians, humanitarian aid workers, contractors, and local leaders. All must
make decisions and solve problems in a complex and extremely challenging environment.

2-3. Controlling the level of violence is a key aspect of the struggle. A high level of violence often benefits
insurgents. The societal insecurity that violence brings discourages or precludes nonmilitary organizations,
particularly external agencies, from helping the local populace. A more benign security environment
allows civilian agencies greater opportunity to provide their resources and expertise. It thereby relieves
military forces of this burden.

2-6. COIN is fought among the populace. Counterinsurgents take upon themselves responsibility for the
people’s well-being in all its manifestations. These include the following:
�� Security from insurgent intimidation and coercion, as well as from nonpolitical violence and
crime.
�� Provision for basic economic needs.
�� Provision of essential services, such as water, electricity, sanitation, and medical care.
�� Sustainment of key social and cultural institutions.
�� Other aspects that contribute to a society’s basic quality of life.
Effective COIN programs address all aspects of the local populace’s concerns in a unified fashion. Insurgents
succeed by maintaining turbulence and highlighting local grievances the COIN effort fails to address.
COIN forces succeed by eliminating turbulence and helping the host nation meet the populace’s basic needs.
http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf
I could keep going and going posting portions of this manual. As CP said before, the policy to go into Iraq may have been wrong (I believe it was). But that doesn't mean we should lose too. You seem to be unwilling or unable to differentiate between the two. The surge was lauded by politicians, especially Dems. What I find especially funny is the fact that then Senator Obama railed against the surge yet used one of his own no more than 2 years later.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Indeed, it appears our invasion and occupation of Iraq may have just delayed the awakening in Iraq ~

_59174071_iraqsadr.jpg


Iraqi Shias protest against government corruption

"Tens of thousands of Iraqi Shias have marked the ninth anniversary of the US-led invasion which overthrew Saddam Hussein with a large rally in the southern city of Basra.

Supporters of the Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr used the protest to demand better living conditions.

They shouted slogans criticising government corruption and held electric cables to highlight power cuts.

Meanwhile, at least three people were killed in bomb attacks east of Baghdad.

Dozens others were injured in the bombings in Diyala province, Iraqi officials said."

BBC News - Iraqi Shias protest against government corruption

More likely the invasion enabled it. With Saddam in power, any protest like this would have been met with overwhelming military response, and therefore, probably would have never occured.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

The trouble is there were more than two of you, and more than can be found on this site. The fact, and it is a fact, the Awakening happened outside the surge. It was not our plan. CP, and perhaps you, are trying to take credit for someone else's work.

I was there also, and I also agree with CP.

Where you in Iraq, Boo?
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

More likely the invasion enabled it. With Saddam in power, any protest like this would have been met with overwhelming military response, and therefore, probably would have never occured.

Agreed. Saddam gassed the Kurds for resisting and brutally put down a post-Gulf War uprising with an estimated 180,000 casualties.
1991 uprisings in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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