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For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

For Veterans and Military personnel only.

  • Total voters
    51
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

cpwill said:
fair enough. The blind ignorance of Catawba's argument is only barely less entertaining than the fact that he will not allow the standard that he has proposed to actually effect his vote.
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Well said sir.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

jamesrage said:
That is a load crap. A candidate is the front runner because the media says so. The media did pick these candidates.
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No, he's a front runner because he's accomplished something. Won the latest primary, polled better, got more support. It really is that simple.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

MarineTpartier said:
The least money from the 1% huh? Are you purposely baiting people into making fun of you?

"This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2008 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates."


University of California $1,648,685
Goldman Sachs $1,013,091
Harvard University $878,164
Microsoft Corp $852,167
Google Inc $814,540
JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
Citigroup Inc $736,771
Time Warner $624,618
Sidley Austin LLP $600,298
Stanford University $595,716
National Amusements Inc $563,798
WilmerHale LLP $550,668
Columbia University $547,852
Skadden, Arps et al $543,539
UBS AG $532,674
IBM Corp $532,372
General Electric $529,855
US Government $513,308
Morgan Stanley $512,232
Latham & Watkins $503,295
Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets
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As compared to McCain from the same site:

"Merrill Lynch $375,895
JPMorgan Chase & Co $343,505
Citigroup Inc $338,202
Morgan Stanley $271,902
Goldman Sachs $240,295
US Government $202,929
AT&T Inc $201,938
Wachovia Corp $199,663
UBS AG $187,493
Credit Suisse Group $184,153
PricewaterhouseCoopers $169,400
US Army $169,020
Bank of America $167,826
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher $160,346
Blank Rome LLP $155,226
Greenberg Traurig LLP $147,437
US Dept of Defense $146,356
FedEx Corp $131,974
Lehman Brothers $126,557
Ernst & Young $114,506


And that was in 2008, before Obama's finance reform, proposal to increase capital gains taxes, and proposed cuts to the military/industrial complex. This election the big wall street money is going 5 to 1 in Romney's favor who has pledged to dismantle finance reform, increase the tax cuts for the wealthy, and increase spending to the military/industrial complex.

All music to Wall Street's ears.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Catawba said:
As compared to McCain from the same site:

"Merrill Lynch $375,895
JPMorgan Chase & Co $343,505
Citigroup Inc $338,202
Morgan Stanley $271,902
Goldman Sachs $240,295
US Government $202,929
AT&T Inc $201,938
Wachovia Corp $199,663
UBS AG $187,493
Credit Suisse Group $184,153
PricewaterhouseCoopers $169,400
US Army $169,020
Bank of America $167,826
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher $160,346
Blank Rome LLP $155,226
Greenberg Traurig LLP $147,437
US Dept of Defense $146,356
FedEx Corp $131,974
Lehman Brothers $126,557
Ernst & Young $114,506
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Well that's interesting - It seems most of McCain's donations are 1/2 to 1/3 of Obama's :). Rather the direct opposite of your claim that Both McCain and Obama proposed finance reform in 08. So the big money donors were more even.

This election the big wall street money is going 5 to 1 in Romney's favor
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This is not correct. Some companies may be betting more on Romney than Obama, but the fact remains that Obama's fundraising is indeed concentrated on the 1%, and any discrepancy is in no way similar to the orders of magnitude you are describing.

According to the Same source, for example, Romney has raised (as of April 30) $97,963,836 12% of which was small individuals. Obama (same date) has raised $217,052,304, 44% of which was small individuals.

88% of $97,963,836 is..... $86,208,175 for Romney from large donors.
56% of $217,052,304 is.... $121, 549,290 for Obama from large donors.

Meaning that Obama actually currently has raised roughly $35,341,114 more than Romney has from large donors. :)


Let me know when you decide to switch your vote to Romney based on the earlier standard you described of voting for the person who got fewer donations from the rich :)
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Catawba, aren't you tired of getting pwned? Just admit it, you are voting for President Obama because he has a (D) beside his name and nothing else. So far, you have claimed to believe in the following things:
No useless war: President Obama has waged war at the same rate as his predecessor.
The 1%: President Obama is as in bed with the 1% as any other politician is. I don't see any "middle class" people paying $40K to get into a dinner at Clooney's house. Do you?
Romney is a flip flopper: President Obama hasn't closed Guantanamo. He hasn't repealed the Bush Tax Cuts. Increased taxes on families making under $250K despite promise not to. I could keep going.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Iraq was a useless war. Obama did not invade and occupy a country like Bush did.

Yes, both parties are in bed with the 1%.

Obana did try to close Gitmo. Failing is a little different than not trying.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

cpwill said:
Well that's interesting - It seems most of McCain's donations are 1/2 to 1/3 of Obama's :). Rather the direct opposite of your claim that Both McCain and Obama proposed finance reform in 08. So the big money donors were more even.
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About 2 to 1 it appears, before Obama'a finance reform, tax increase proposals and announcement of spending cuts for the military industrial complex.

Since that, the big money favors Romney 5 to 1 over Obama this election.

I consider 2 to 1 more even than 5 to 1.
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Boo Radley said:
Iraq was a useless war. Obama did not invade and occupy a country like Bush did.
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Libya was useless. Doubling down in Afghan is useless and we are occupying that country like never before. He also has authorized the invasion of air space in Yemen and Pakistan.
Boo Radley said:
Yes, both parties are in bed with the 1%.
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Agreed
Boo Radley said:
Obana did try to close Gitmo. Failing is a little different than not trying.
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Is it though? Isn't the result the same? President Bush tried to do the best thing for the country. Shouldn't you give him a pass?
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Catawba said:
About 2 to 1 it appears, before Obama'a finance reform, tax increase proposals and announcement of spending cuts for the military industrial complex.

Since that, the big money favors Romney 5 to 1 over Obama this election.

I consider 2 to 1 more even than 5 to 1.
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Do you have proof of this 2 to 1/5 to 1 statement? I haven't seen it. Also, didn't CP just show you that President Obama has more big money donations that Governor Romney?
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

MarineTpartier said:
Libya was useless. Doubling down in Afghan is useless and we are occupying that country like never before. He also has authorized the invasion of air space in Yemen and Pakistan.
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I did not support Libya. But did think we needed to regain the focus in Afghanistan that Bush threw away. Many liberals felt that way. But I did not support the surge. However, it is what Obama said he do. And none of this is equal in any way to Bush's act in Iraq.

Agreed
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Is it though? Isn't the result the same? President Bush tried to do the best thing for the country. Shouldn't you give him a pass?
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The distain is more spread. At least he tried. Also, what was wrong wasn't just that Gitmo existed, but the disregard for law and order, and using torture. Also claiming torture wasn't torture. So, Obama did give some improvement. I wanted more, true. But it is merely false that they are equal.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Boo Radley said:
I did not support Libya. But did think we needed to regain the focus in Afghanistan that Bush threw away. Many liberals felt that way. But I did not support the surge. However, it is what Obama said he do. And none of this is equal in any way to Bush's act in Iraq.
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Two big differences. 1) President Bush's strategy in Iraq worked in the end. That country is undeniably better than when we first went in. 2) President Obama tried the same approach in Afghan. The one and only difference is this. We are under NATO control in Afghan. The ROE are different. That's why we have failed there and will continue to fail there.





Boo Radley said:
The distain is more spread. At least he tried. Also, what was wrong wasn't just that Gitmo existed, but the disregard for law and order, and using torture. Also claiming torture wasn't torture. So, Obama did give some improvement. I wanted more, true. But it is merely false that they are equal.
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That waterboarding is torture is questionable. I've been waterboarded and, while it sucks, I don't think it's torture. We can get into that another time.
Gitmo wasn't the center for the disregard or torture. It was the secret prisons that were all around the world. President Obama says he closed those. He didn't. He merely decreased the allowable time that a detainee is allowed to be present in said prisons. These prisons are supposed to be transient stops on the way to Gitmo. Nothing stops the spooks that handle these guys from just transporting them from secret prison to secret prison as long as they don't exceed the allowable time for each stop. So President Obama merely gray area'd that one.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

UtahBill said:
to keep beating the same dead horse, we have never elected a "true" conservative....not in the last 50 years, at least....
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What did I say?? Wake up Bill.

Sadly I believe a true Conservative like Santorum can not be elected,.........
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

cpwill said:
Well that's interesting - It seems most of McCain's donations are 1/2 to 1/3 of Obama's :). Rather the direct opposite of your claim that Both McCain and Obama proposed finance reform in 08. So the big money donors were more even.



This is not correct. Some companies may be betting more on Romney than Obama, but the fact remains that Obama's fundraising is indeed concentrated on the 1%, and any discrepancy is in no way similar to the orders of magnitude you are describing.

According to the Same source, for example, Romney has raised (as of April 30) $97,963,836 12% of which was small individuals. Obama (same date) has raised $217,052,304, 44% of which was small individuals.

88% of $97,963,836 is..... $86,208,175 for Romney from large donors.
56% of $217,052,304 is.... $121, 549,290 for Obama from large donors.

Meaning that Obama actually currently has raised roughly $35,341,114 more than Romney has from large donors. :)
Click to expand...


Apparently, I misremembered. Here are the figures so far in this election, and what they were total in the '08 election.

"Individuals who work in the securities and investment industry have given the Romney campaign $8.5 million through the end of April, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.Over the same time period, Obama has brought in only $3 million from securities and investment workers, and the industry is only the campaign's fifth largest source of funds."

That's 2.8 to 1 so far in Romney's favor.


"The absence of Wall Street love is a departure from the norm for the Obama campaign. In 2008, then-Senator Obama raised almost $16 million from Wall Street. John McCain, the Republican nominee, received donations totaling only $9 million."

The total in '08 was 1.8 to 1 in Obama's favor.

Wall Street ditches Obama, backs Romney - May. 29, 2012


We also for the first presidential election have the cover of Citizens United so people can donate anonymously without fear of it exposing their support. So that's a whole funding mechanisms for the 1% that we have never had before.
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

MarineTpartier said:
Two big differences. 1) President Bush's strategy in Iraq worked in the end. That country is undeniably better than when we first went in. 2) President Obama tried the same approach in Afghan. The one and only difference is this. We are under NATO control in Afghan. The ROE are different. That's why we have failed there and will continue to fail there.
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Worked? We refereed a civil war for a decade? What about that is working? For Iraqis, the Sunni Awakening help eased the violance more than anything else (there wasn't anything equvivlent in Afghanstan and that is the big difference). But, we gained next to nothing. We spent a lot for nothing.



That waterboarding is torture is questionable. I've been waterboarded and, while it sucks, I don't think it's torture. We can get into that another time.
Gitmo wasn't the center for the disregard or torture. It was the secret prisons that were all around the world. President Obama says he closed those. He didn't. He merely decreased the allowable time that a detainee is allowed to be present in said prisons. These prisons are supposed to be transient stops on the way to Gitmo. Nothing stops the spooks that handle these guys from just transporting them from secret prison to secret prison as long as they don't exceed the allowable time for each stop. So President Obama merely gray area'd that one.
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It is not the least bit questionable. This was one of my major problems with Bush. He tried to frame it as questionable. It isn't. And it doesn't matter who or how many try rationalize what we did. It was torture, and always has been considered torture.

And while I don't think everythng I think should be stopped has stopped, it is important that we not try to justify evil. There is no gray. It is wrong.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Catawba said:
About 2 to 1 it appears, before Obama'a finance reform, tax increase proposals and announcement of spending cuts for the military industrial complex.

Since that, the big money favors Romney 5 to 1 over Obama this election.
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:) it's cute that you repeat this claim after I've already demonstrated to you that Romney is thus far losing the big money to Obama.


Ah, reading later I see this:

"Individuals who work in the securities and investment industry have given the Romney campaign $8.5 million through the end of April, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.Over the same time period, Obama has brought in only $3 million from securities and investment workers, and the industry is only the campaign's fifth largest source of funds."
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:lol: so. You have now moved the goalpost twice. Tell me, is it the 1% that you are trying to avoid? Or specifically people that work in the investment industry? Those two categories are not the same. Furthermore, I have a cousin who was in that industry - he banked around $45K-ish, a year all told. Is he an evil member of the manipulative elite?

When President Obama uses John Corzine - currently under investigation for "misplacing" people's money to the tune of $1.2 BILLION - as a bundler, does that make you proud? or embarrassed?
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Boo Radley said:
Worked? We refereed a civil war for a decade? What about that is working? For Iraqis, the Sunni Awakening help eased the violance more than anything else (there wasn't anything equvivlent in Afghanstan and that is the big difference). But, we gained next to nothing. We spent a lot for nothing.
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The Sunni Awakening happened because Sheikh Satar, a man I met and respected, knew we weren't going to bail on him. The Afghanis were made well aware that we were bailing on them 3 years before we were going to do it. If I'm an Afghani, I'm going to do what they are doing now. Just mark time until the Americans leave and make as few enemies as I can in the Taliban.
Also, I would say the ally we have in Iraq is much more that what we will have in Afghanistan when we leave. Name one thing that President Obama can say when we leave there that is a positive. I can't think of any.




Boo Radley said:
It is not the least bit questionable. This was one of my major problems with Bush. He tried to frame it as questionable. It isn't. And it doesn't matter who or how many try rationalize what we did. It was torture, and always has been considered torture.
And while I don't think everythng I think should be stopped has stopped, it is important that we not try to justify evil. There is no gray. It is wrong.
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Have you been waterboarded? Have you even seen anyone waterboarded? By your logic, you don't even agree with stress positions correct? I hate to tell you this, but people don't tend to tell you what you need to know, when you need to know it, if you're nice to them. Sure, you whittle away someone's resolve by treating them well and being civil, but that takes months if not years. We don't have that time. I am of the mindset that if we would just leave these people alone, this stuff would go away. However, if our gov't is going to continue to engage in this crap, they should at least play to win. President Obama has tried to have his cake and eat it too. Doesn't work that way. Either fight or don't.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

MarineTpartier said:
The Sunni Awakening happened because Sheikh Satar, a man I met and respected, knew we weren't going to bail on him. The Afghanis were made well aware that we were bailing on them 3 years before we were going to do it. If I'm an Afghani, I'm going to do what they are doing now. Just mark time until the Americans leave and make as few enemies as I can in the Taliban.
Also, I would say the ally we have in Iraq is much more that what we will have in Afghanistan when we leave. Name one thing that President Obama can say when we leave there that is a positive. I can't think of any.
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It really doesn't matter what his thinking was, it was his idea, they came up with it and they were willing to go in that direction. Without that, the outcome would have been very different. Bush ahd already bailed on the Afghanis long before Obama took office; in fact, it was Obama who brough the focus back to Afghanistan.

There is very little positive about either country. Iraq is closer to Iran than they were before we came. Both see brutality to their people. Both have suffered a great deal. And neither offeres very much that helps us.



Have you been waterboarded? Have you even seen anyone waterboarded? By your logic, you don't even agree with stress positions correct? I hate to tell you this, but people don't tend to tell you what you need to know, when you need to know it, if you're nice to them. Sure, you whittle away someone's resolve by treating them well and being civil, but that takes months if not years. We don't have that time. I am of the mindset that if we would just leave these people alone, this stuff would go away. However, if our gov't is going to continue to engage in this crap, they should at least play to win. President Obama has tried to have his cake and eat it too. Doesn't work that way. Either fight or don't.
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Waterboarding isn't new. And at least one person died while in a stress position. But the fact is waterboarding has always been considered torture, we, the US, have called it torture, and you can't erase that history because you now want to to excuse our behavior. BTW, torture is not very effective. And while these boards have been down this road many, many times, I still can show where we got misinformation that we used (al Libi) and no one has matched that with any information just as verifiable that we actually got from torture. Other methods have proven repeatedly to be more effective and just as fast. In Iraq, for example (read "The Gamble") we got better intel once we stopped the harsher treatment. So, my position is that your perception of what works is wrong.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

This poll is not accurate. Libs who are not active duty personal or veterans voted. just like in the general election there is fraud here. Libs cannot win an election honestly just as they had to lie to come out on top of this poll.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

SgtRock said:
This poll is not accurate. Libs who are not active duty personal or veterans voted. just like in the general election there is fraud here. Libs cannot win an election honestly just as they had to lie to come out on top of this poll.
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Which people who voted in the poll are not vets or current military personnel? I changed the wording to fit the title since "active duty personal(sic)" excludes Guardsmen and Reservists.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Rising Sun said:
Which people who voted in the poll are not vets or current military personnel? I changed the wording to fit the title since "active duty personal(sic)" excludes Guardsmen and Reservists.
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I asked this question before and did not get an answer.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

SgtRock said:
This poll is not accurate. Libs who are not active duty personal or veterans voted. just like in the general election there is fraud here. Libs cannot win an election honestly just as they had to lie to come out on top of this poll.
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I always laugh. I remember when Bush won against Kerry, Ohio reported a town where more people voted for bush than lived in the town. Those damned liberals!!! :thumbs:
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Rising Sun said:
Which people who voted in the poll are not vets or current military personnel? I changed the wording to fit the title since "active duty personal(sic)" excludes Guardsmen and Reservists.
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By bad, although many National Guard and Reserve at this time are active. Also you can be active and a veteran at the same time. For instance an active duty soldier can be a Iraq war veteran. Anyway Boo voted, he is not a veteran.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Boo Radley said:
I always laugh. I remember when Bush won against Kerry, Ohio reported a town where more people voted for bush than lived in the town. Those damned liberals!!! :thumbs:
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Funny I remember that happening in a lot of towns only it was people like ACORN who were stuffing the ballots for Kerry and here in Washington state we allow dead people and felons to vote if they vote democratic.............
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

SgtRock said:
By bad, although many National Guard and Reserve at this time are active. Also you can be active and a veteran at the same time. For instance an active duty soldier can be a Iraq war veteran. Anyway Boo voted, he is not a veteran.
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One vote does not justify the plural use of the word "lib" nor, out of 53 current total votes, does it constitute evidence of "Libs cannot win an election honestly just as they had to lie to come out on top of this poll." I'm new here and trying to understand the since of ethics, honesty and civility on this forum, so please forgive my questions.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

SgtRock said:
By bad, although many National Guard and Reserve at this time are active. Also you can be active and a veteran at the same time. For instance an active duty soldier can be a Iraq war veteran. Anyway Boo voted, he is not a veteran.
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I am a veteran. I was in the 82nd. I thought everyone knew this.
 
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