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For Veterans and Military personnel only.[W:651]

For Veterans and Military personnel only.


  • Total voters
    51
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I believe that socialist programs are still socialist programs.

No you don't. You are smarter than this. There is a very big difference between programs that reward contracts of service and programs that reward a person for being born. Some socialist programs help people who deserve it. Most Americans on unemployment would prefer a job and an opportunity to maintain a sense of pride and contribute to our society. Some socialist programs feed people who find themselves on the back end of a series of bad life decisions and need assistance. Certainly most of them don't like the embarrasment of pulling food stamps out of their purse or announcing "free lunch" in front of their school friends.

But let's not pretend that 20 years of contracted service is the same as a handout just to justify the handout. Are people who retire from Time Warner Cable, Ford, or Merryl Lynch getting a handout from their companies when they retire? After they've fullfilled career obligation they too receive what they earned in accordance to the contracts. Are these civilian workers just like the 24 year old single Mom of four receiving food stamps? Military retirees worked for a company too. And they merely get what they earned. What 24 year old Mom of four earned a handout? What contract did she sign and what has she really earned? What she earned was failure because of the bad decisions she made....but she has the mercy of socialist programs to alleviate her reponsibility.
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

No you don't. You are smarter than this. There is a very big difference between programs that reward contracts of service and programs that reward a person for being born. Some socialist programs help people who deserve it. Most Americans on unemployment would prefer a job and an opportunity to maintain a sense of pride and contribute to our society. Some socialist programs feed people who find themselves on the back end of a series of bad life decisions and need assistance. Certainly most of them don;t like the embarrasment of pulling food stamps out of their purse or announcing "free lunch" in front of their school friends.

But let's not pretend that 20 years of contracted service is the same as a handout just to justify the handout. Are people who retire from Time Warner Cable, Ford, or Merryl Lynch getting a handout from their companies when they retire? They are just like the 24 year old single Mom of four receiving food stamps? Military retirees worked for a company too.

So basically you just make up definitions to words when they real one is inconvenient. Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Socialism
11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png
/ˈsʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterised by social ownership and/or control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy,[SUP][1][/SUP] and a political philosophy advocating such a system.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

So basically you just make up definitions to words when they real one is inconvenient. Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, the definition doesn't address the topic, does it? A socialist government (China, Cuba, Soviet Union) and socialistic programs (found in the U.S. and Western Europe) are two seperate issues. Your definition focuses on governance. Or is a retiree of Time Warner Cable a product of "political philosophy" or a victim of "social ownership?" The food stamp receiver is owned by the government. The retiree is not. The notion of retiring is actually more capitalist than socialist because it deals with the reward of labor.


You are trying to make a military retiree the same as a 24 year old food stamp case just to justify a socialistic government. The two are seperate and you know this.
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Well, the definition doesn't address the topic, does it? A socialist government (China, Cuba, Soviet Union) and socialistic programs (found in the U.S. and Western Europe) are two seperate issues. Your definition focuses on governance. Or is a retiree of Time Warner Cable a product of "political philosophy" or a victim of "social ownership?" The food stamp receiver is owned by the government. The retiree is not.

You are trying to make a military retiree the same as a 24 year old food stamp case just to justify a socialistic government. The two are seperate and you know this.

But the food being bought by the people is not owned by the government. The military is actually much closer to socialism than food stamps are. The food the military receives is owned by the government.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Well, the definition doesn't address the topic, does it? A socialist government (China, Cuba, Soviet Union) and socialistic programs (found in the U.S. and Western Europe) are two seperate issues. Your definition focuses on governance. Or is a retiree of Time Warner Cable a product of "political philosophy" or a victim of "social ownership?" The food stamp receiver is owned by the government. The retiree is not. The notion of retiring is actually more capitalist than socialist because it deals with the reward of labor.


You are trying to make a military retiree the same as a 24 year old food stamp case just to justify a socialistic government. The two are seperate and you know this.

You are just making **** up. Your desperation to spin is kinda telling. A government run retirement program is the same as a food stamps program in that they are both socialist programs. That does not mean the programs are the same value, benefit the same people, or are alike in any other way. I understand your kneejerk reaction to the word socialist, you have bought into the propaganda that socialism = bad, which is sold mostly by people on Medicare and Social Security.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

You are just making **** up........

.......................................

It is a long tactic of Liberals (especially Leftists) to use our military to justify handouts to the rest and thereby an altered path from capitalism to socialism. In the end, retirees earn their benefits no matter what the company. Social programs offerred to people who make bad decisions in life are a seperate issue. Or did that teacher, who taught for thirty years earn her retirement the same way a welfare commando earned his?

And I don't buy into anything. I read. I didn't vote for Obama or Bush and I don't see Romney as any better. What did you buy into? You being "very liberal" means what....anything the Democrats sell?
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

But the food being bought by the people is not owned by the government. The military is actually much closer to socialism than food stamps are. The food the military receives is owned by the government.

The government is a company for the military. Secretaries for civilian firms use paper that is supplied by the company. A handout? After their contracted careers are over that company will pay them their agreed upon retirment pay. Just because my company is a government doesn't mean a socialistic event in the manner in which you wish it. What exactly does a single 24 year old mom of 4 do to earn a handout that comes from social programs? Where's the contract? Where's the earn?

Incidentally, Soviet soldiers, who received retirements for serving their government (or company) were very different from the civilian masses who merely lined up for government bread. The attempt to make it the same insults.
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

The government is a company for the military. Secretaries for civilian firms use paper that is supplied by the company. A handout? After their contracted careers are over that company will pay them their agreed upon retirment pay. Just because my company is a government doesn't mean a socialistic event in the manner in which you wish it. What exactly does a single 24 year old mom of 4 do to earn a handout that comes from social programs? Where's the contract? Where's the earn?

Incidentally, Soviet soldiers, who received retirements for serving their government (or company) were very different from the civilian masses who merely lined up for government bread. The attempt to make it the same insults.

Did I say they actually were the same? No. I said the military, particularly certain parts, is more like socialism than food stamps. I know how the military works and I know how it is very much like a job. There are some differences though between being in the military and any other job in the US. No other jobs can mandate how far away a person can travel when they aren't at work. No other jobs can mandate many of the activities a person can and cannot be involved in and have violations of those things result not just in firing, but in imprisonment.

Food stamps is more like providing a needy family with charity. Only those who wish to apply and actually need the help can get food stamps. It is not required that everyone use food stamps or even that food stamps only be used in some government owned stores. If the government doesn't provide help to some people who need it, then they will likely turn to less legal means of acquiring what they need and all of society suffers from that.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Retirement programs funded by your employer, including military, are DEFERRED COMPENSATION, or IOW, an EARNED entitlement.....
That is not socialism.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Retirement programs funded by your employer, including military, are DEFERRED COMPENSATION, or IOW, an EARNED entitlement.....
That is not socialism.

And neither is food stamps.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

This is socialism, if it doesn't fit this definition then it isn't socialism, end of discussion.

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

agree, until we all get them.....

Basically.

Of course, I am for UHC and completely understand that it would be a socialist program. I just don't consider it a big deal because we need it and there isn't much of another alternative without actually allowing people to die just because they can't afford medical care/medicine.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Basically.

Of course, I am for UHC and completely understand that it would be a socialist program. I just don't consider it a big deal because we need it and there isn't much of another alternative without actually allowing people to die just because they can't afford medical care/medicine.

again, I agree...
My young granddaughter was in a bad situation (inoperable brain tumor), it took a lawyer to make her insurance company do the right thing....
I don't mind that insurance companies operate with a profit motive, but when the greed motive rears its ugly head, then there should be prosecutions at the corporate level.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

So sorry to hear about your grandbaby Utah. I hope she does well.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

This is socialism, if it doesn't fit this definition then it isn't socialism, end of discussion.



Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com

I don't think the people bitching about "omfg socialism!" every time a democrat takes a breath really care about what socialism actually is. It's like accusations of racism, it's not meant to do anything but instantly discredit another in order to avoid a real discussion.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

.......................................

It is a long tactic of Liberals (especially Leftists) to use our military to justify handouts to the rest and thereby an altered path from capitalism to socialism. In the end, retirees earn their benefits no matter what the company. Social programs offerred to people who make bad decisions in life are a seperate issue. Or did that teacher, who taught for thirty years earn her retirement the same way a welfare commando earned his?

And I don't buy into anything. I read. I didn't vote for Obama or Bush and I don't see Romney as any better. What did you buy into? You being "very liberal" means what....anything the Democrats sell?

Bull****. You are once again making **** up, trying to spin some wild asses conspiracy theory and make comparisons that do not follow from what has been said, playing to emotions instead of logic. The harder you try and avoid admitting the uncomfortable truth, that you will benefit from programs that are socialist, you just go further and further into insanity and inanity.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

I can sort of imagine NP sitting there, consumed in the idea that pot shots at Obama on the internet actually matter, thinking to himself, "Hmm, what can I post to beat on Obama, that I can actually win? I know! A vote aimed at military personnel!"

...And the roaring "GODDAMNIT!" when the votes started rolling in. :lol:

I know. Poor guy can't catch a break. LOL!
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

again, I agree...
My young granddaughter was in a bad situation (inoperable brain tumor), it took a lawyer to make her insurance company do the right thing....
I don't mind that insurance companies operate with a profit motive, but when the greed motive rears its ugly head, then there should be prosecutions at the corporate level.

That's horrible Utah.

Profit is above all else for insurance companies. A friend of mine worked years as a statistician at one of the largest most prestigious firms. His reports were given to the highest execs in the company in order to make determinations on what policies to enact.

The company had a program to prevent old ladie's from breaking their hips...it would teach them what to avoid, put things in their homes etc. Well...somehow via Medicare they realized they make much more money from premiums after a person breaks their hip that vastly outweighs the medical care they received...what did they do? They canceled the preventative measures.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

When it's a choice between Obama and Romney, It's Obama all the way.

Captain America
U.S.N.
FC1

Go Navy!
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

Bull****. You are once again making **** up, trying to spin some wild asses conspiracy theory and make comparisons that do not follow from what has been said, playing to emotions instead of logic. The harder you try and avoid admitting the uncomfortable truth, that you will benefit from programs that are socialist, you just go further and further into insanity and inanity.

No....you cursor. And it is obviously you who are getting very emotional in your quest to pretend that an earned capitalistic retirement contract equates to a socialistic welfare program.

According to the definition as given by another "very liberal" moderator, socialism is "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."

Since my contract was with a company, how does my retirement belong to a community? My retirment is capitalist based. And you are confusing socialistic government programs with socialistic governance, since this is exactly what your definition leaned towards. So, according to this definition (and yours actually), how does my retirment equate to a social system where the community has control? My retirement program is based on the same type retirment program offerred by civilian corporations, which is a reward for labor....not because it's the government's duty to give me a handout. The Welfare individual receives assistance without having earned it. Much like a child's allowance. Does he merely receive a handout from his parents or is he cutting lawns and taking out the trash? Compare him to the other son who has no chores and you see the difference. Your attempt to equate the two is merely a cry to legitimize the handout. You may as well pretend that a man's salary (only if it comes from government, of course) is a socialistic program.

And I'm not sure what you are considering a conspiracy. It's just what liberals do. Especially when they are "very."
 
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Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

It is a long tactic of Liberals (especially Leftists) to use our military to justify handouts to the rest and thereby an altered path from capitalism to socialism.

Oh man...I was with you until you went there. Why don't you keep out blanket statements on "what liberals do" and stick to arguing the facts. I agreed with the idea that a contract between the government and a service man including the things offered including pensions/retirement etc is different than social safety nets.

Or did that teacher, who taught for thirty years earn her retirement the same way a welfare commando earned his?
And I agree with this...it would be nice if there was a little solidarity between public servants in general. When they cut the teachers pensions and the pensions for postal workers don't be suprised when they come after the soldiers. I'm just saying...it's the progression and ideology they peddle. That if you're are serving the government in anyway you're not a "producer"...that you're living high off the hog on tax payers.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

No, the military does nto fit classic definitions of socialism, but does behave much like what those who call Obama a socialist complain about. I think this is a valid point. When Bill Kyrstal of the Weekly Standard pronounces the military health care as the best in the world and sings its praises, but then calls any civilian system that would mimic it as substandard, you have to question his logic. And you ahve to question others who mirror that type of thinking.
 
Re: For Veterans and Military personnel only.

No, the military does nto fit classic definitions of socialism, but does behave much like what those who call Obama a socialist complain about. I think this is a valid point. When Bill Kyrstal of the Weekly Standard pronounces the military health care as the best in the world and sings its praises, but then calls any civilian system that would mimic it as substandard, you have to question his logic. And you ahve to question others who mirror that type of thinking.

Especially since military healthcare sucks.
 
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